Hicks Placed On DL, Buxton Coming Up

[Platoon]

So you think after not playing for a month and a half the best course of action is to have Buxton come right to the MLB and play 3 to 4 days a week while also taking valuable playing time from Hicks and Rosario?  That's really going to be beneficial to the development of those three players...

Playing time from Hicks and Rosario? You obviously meant playing time from Hunter?

[USAFChief]

So prospect development be damned for 8-16 at bats a week?  Yeah, I don't find that a fair criticism at all.

 

The problem is the roster construction (and loyalty to some players), don't compound the mistake by messing with your elite prospects.

Then I go back to my original point. If Buxton needs development, and that outweighs the big league needs, why bring him up now?

 

What has changed about Buxton in less than two weeks?

[USAFChief]

If Robinson were demoted to Rochester, does his salary and benefits, (I assume MLB has health insurance benefits go with him)?

That's actually a very astute question.

 

I've wondered if Robinson's family situation has played a role in keeping him in the big leagues.

 

While I have every sympathy, I hope that isn't a reason.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

If Robinson were demoted to Rochester, does his salary and benefits, (I assume MLB has health insurance benefits go with him)?

he can't be demoted to Rochester, he would need to be DFA'd, and 1) get claimed, 2) accept assignment to Rochester or 3) elect free agency.

 

MLB contracts are guaranteed

 

no idea of accuracy, but according to the link below, pension has a 43 day vesting period, and healthcare has a 1 day, lifetime benefit, so if accurate, yup Shuga Shane would take all three with him where ever he goes.

 

http://benefitsbryancave.com/major-league-baseball-pension-and-healthcare-benefits/

[TheLeviathan]

Then I go back to my original point. If Buxton needs development, and that outweighs the big league needs, why bring him up now?

What has changed about Buxton in less than two weeks?

An injury happened and changed the variables.

 

Now it's about promoting him as an everyday CF and not a platoon player. The Twins clearly value regular playing time as an essential element for promoting elite players. That isn't uncommon.

[Mike Sixel]

The argument that they could not bench Hunter it's odd......Buxton is better, he is part of the future, Hunter was already sitting two or three times a week, people would be excited by him. I dont get this argument at all.

[jimmer]

 

The argument that they could not bench Hunter it's odd......Buxton is better, he is part of the future, Hunter was already sitting two or three times a week, people would be excited by him. I dont get this argument at all.

especially with how poorly he's performed, especially lately.  They could promote the heck out of the outfield of the future.

[John Bonnes]

 

Buxton couldn't have replaced Robinson, thereby taking those ABs, and also taking one start per week from Hicks and one or two from Rosario (maybe against a LHer)?

It didnt have to be "replace Hunter." Hunter is sitting twice a week anyway.

There was room for four outfielders including Buxton, just like there was including Robinson. That makes the team better (unless you don't think Buxton is a better player than Robinson) in the outfield AND puts a PHer on the bench.

 

Yes, that's what I was trying to suggest with the 3rd option - Robinson plus some at-bats from Rosario and Hicks. That's reasonable. It's also reasonable to suggest that's the worst of all worlds. You have Buxton rotting on the bench three days per week, you rob Hicks and Rosario of some at-bats and you disrupt the team to show in a guy that already has received attention far outweighing his performance. 

 

To me, this is a coin flip, something that someone closer to the team is in a better position to evaluate. But I can't get outrage that this is some obvious answer. 

[jimmer]

There is no reason to suggest that if we had brought up Buxton he would have had to platoon thereby stunting his professional development.  THAT would be dumb.

 

You start Buxton/Rosario/Hicks as much as possible, you DFA Robinson, you use Hunter as a 4th OF and you promote the heck out of the outfield of the future. People would be excited to see the young trio, and they'd still see some Hunter, super-mentor.

 

And you probably help the team by having that defense.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

We could also sprinkle magic pixie dust on Suzuki.

 

I don't like that Hunter is here, didn't like it from the start, don't like that he's going to continue to get playing time.  But then there's reality.  Banging an unrealistic drum is dumb.

 

Buxton, if he was going to come up, was going to take ABs from Hicks and Rosario just as likely as he was Hunter.  We can all agree that's not ideal and end that train of thought.  It would do a world of good.

[spinowner]

I think almost everyone near the top of the organization thought that AAA was the best place for Buxton to be at this juncture because of his reduced playing time during the last two seasons and because of his struggles at the plate at the major league level. However, with this injury a player needs to be called up. So put yourself in TR and PM's position and look at it logically step by step.

The first decision: whether to call up a player already on the 40-man or waive someone to make room for someone else. I think almost everyone would agree that the only reason to waive a player now is for the purpose of a trade. So that means considering only players from the 40-man. Next decision: choosing between an outfielder or a different position. I think almost everyone would agree that the player should be an outfielder. That narrows the choice to Arcia, Buxton or Kepler. While there's probably less than unanimous agreement on this I'm all but certain Kepler is the one TR and PM would rule out first. Next decision: choosing between Arcia or Buxton. Calling up Arcia means center field will be manned by Robinson or Rosario. Calling up Buxton means better defense in center field. Calling up Arcia means worse defense in center field and worse defense on a corner. In spite of not really wanting Buxton to be in the majors right now their hand is forced, so up he comes.

 

[jimmer]

 

We could also sprinkle magic pixie dust on Suzuki.

 

I don't like that Hunter is here, didn't like it from the start, don't like that he's going to continue to get playing time.  But then there's reality.  Banging an unrealistic drum is dumb.

 

Buxton, if he was going to come up, was going to take ABs from Hicks and Rosario just as likely as he was Hunter.  We can all agree that's not ideal and end that train of thought.  It would do a world of good.

I agree Buxton taking away playing time from Hicks and Rosario wouldn't be ideal, which is why I never suggested that happen and there's no reason it would have to happen,at least not more than it already was with Robinson.  And if talking about things that should happen as opposed to things that will happen is dumb, let's shut down the place.

[TheLeviathan]

Once we've all accepted it probably should happen, but won't - why keep banging the drum?  At that point, let's just deal with reality.

[Shane Wahl]

Are we ever going to see Rosario-Buxton-Hicks in the OF this year!?

[jimmer]

 

Once we've all accepted it probably should happen, but won't - why keep banging the drum?  

That hasn't occurred yet. There are still plenty who are arguing against that having been the right course of action.

[jimmer]

 

Are we ever going to see Rosario-Buxton-Hicks in the OF this year!?

yup, when Hicks comes back and the rosters have expanded.  unless they demote Buxton again, which could happen.

[TheLeviathan]

 

That hasn't occurred yet. There are still plenty who are arguing against that having been the right course of action.

 

No one is cheering for Hunter.  Every Hunter related post I've seen has just accepted the reality that we are invested in giving him at-bats.  And we are, so it's not going anywhere no matter how much any of us like it or not.

[jimmer]

Kiley just did a new prospects list at Fangraphs.

 

Berrios is #7 (with Buxton being #2). Kepler is mentioned too.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-post-trade-deadline-prospect-update/

[Shane Wahl]

I really have no idea what is going on here. Hunter is already out half the games at this point. Rosario could use a few games off out of every ten. Hicks one or two out of every ten. PLENTY of time for Buxton. There was no reason to involve him in minor league baseball anymore.

[LaBombo]

 

Once we've all accepted it probably should happen, but won't - why keep banging the drum?  At that point, let's just deal with reality.

 

Carried through to its logical conclusion, 'Twins gonna do what Twins gonna do' nullifies any debate about what Twins management does, on field or off.

 

At any rate,  Hunter's combination of performance, contract, popularity, and potential replacement scenarios doesn't begin to compare to the unavoidable, monolithic presence of Mauer at first base.

[Bark's Lounge]

It is August 19th. We certainly cannot go back in time. I wish things went differently and obviously they did not. Buxton is up now, I am excited for that. If Hicks' injury is not too severe, which it does not sound like it is, I am really excited to see Eddie, Byron, and Hicks play in the same outfield. It's a reason to watch, along with Sano's PA's.

 

This year has been funny in a painful way. In the last three years, we all accepted the apathetic course of nature and joked about it and did not care much. This year was different because things were going pretty good, especially in May, and the week or two leading up to the All-Star Break. This team came crashing back to Earth in a way no one would want to believe after the ASB.

 

The whole pitching staff is one you cannot trust, and the bullpen as we all know is about as bad as it gets. Really, really ****ing bad.

 

At one point Dozier, Mauer, Hunter, Plouffe were all hitting  around .270. Except for Mauer, they are all hitting .250ish or below. Hunter has fallen off the face of the planet BA wise and no matter their propensity to get on base otherwise, that is a huge blow.

 

Not that I expect anything awesome to happen, but going forward, if the starting pitching can hold their own to some degree and the Twins call up Berrios and give him some high leverage reps in the pen, along with May, coupled with Dozier, Mauer, Plouffe and Hunter upping their BA ten points - and maybe Buxton goes on a tear...

 

Maybe the Twins can have a fun and interesting month of September. I certainly do not count on it, but stranger things have happened.

 

I hope that is what transpires. I just want to see some good baseball played by my hometown team this last 1.5 months of the season.

[Platoon]

That's actually a very astute question.

I've wondered if Robinson's family situation has played a role in keeping him in the big leagues.

While I have every sympathy, I hope that isn't a reason.

The family situation is exactly why I asked. I have wondered about it for awhile. I am of mixed thoughts. I understand the philosophy of a happy bench guy, but we may have a few too many. As far as if they are keeping him because he needs insurance, that's a tough one. Very very tough. If that would be the case, and Ryan has the compassion and balls to keep him the last few months for that reason, he gets a pass from me. The playing time issue I would still argue, the roster spot I would not.

[Jham]

 

The family situation is exactly why I asked. I have wondered about it for awhile. I am of mixed thoughts. I understand the philosophy of a happy bench guy, but we may have a few too many. As far as if they are keeping him because he needs insurance, that's a tough one. Very very tough. If that would be the case, and Ryan has the compassion and balls to keep him the last few months for that reason, he gets a pass from me. The playing time issue I would still argue, the roster spot I would not.

 

I hate to be the one always defending Robinson, especially when I've called for Arcia to get the call over him.  But what has Robinson done wrong?  He's been a perfect defense-first back up outfielder. It isn't his fault that they keep deciding to go with 100 pitchers.  He's played at least to expectations this year.  There's no guarantee whatsoever that Arcia would have made the team better.  In my mind, I'd have wanted to see, but he might have continued to be dreadful.  At this point, the season is slipping away.  Rosters expand in a week and a half.  Cutting Robinson to bring up players he might well be better than at this point would be unprofessional at this point.  I suppose you could pay out his contract and insurance, but I'd only do that if we were completely out of it, going young, and wanted to give him an opportunity to catch on with another team if they wanted to pick up his contract.

 

[Ncgo4]

this is one we will have to disagree on. I think no other GM keeps Robinson around when he has the option of adding a top prospect.

I don't get it. Robinson hitting .260 is a super star compared to Hunter at .235. Neither should be in the lineup when Kepler (already on the 40 roster) is sitting in Chatanooga hitting .340 with power, speed and walks almost equal to K's.

 

Der Maxamillion should be starting just to the right of Buxton and one of H or R should be released.

[TheLeviathan]

Carried through to its logical conclusion, 'Twins gonna do what Twins gonna do' nullifies any debate about what Twins management does, on field or off.

 

At any rate,  Hunter's combination of performance, contract, popularity, and potential replacement scenarios doesn't begin to compare to the unavoidable, monolithic presence of Mauer at first base.

There is some truth to the first part, but in especially obvious cases like Hunter and Mauer I don't see the point in banging our collective heads against the wall.

[Ncgo4]

It seems like there's a lot of rhetoric out here, or a lot of people more interested in rhetoric than analysis. I find that a little disappointing. I'll posit this: this is the right move, obviously. I also think reasonable people can disagree whether it would have been the right move previously.To suggest incompetence one way or the other might be fun, but isn't true.  I think reaonsable people can disagree on the following points:

 

1. Buxton is "ready". The trigger for Buxton being called up was that Hicks was hurt (albeit lightly). That is true again. That the Twins pushed him up from AA before and after just 10 games in AAA now AND that they seem very willing to DL Hicks with slight injuries, suggest they think Buxton is ready, but

 

a) It's OK to think he didn't look all that ready last time when he was posting a 500 OPS. And

B. "readiness" isn't the only reason someone is called up to the majors. And furthermore,

c) the Twins might have thought he was ready before but then second-guessed themselves with some of his reactions to big league offspeed pitches.

 

2. I think it's OK to feel like Buxton could have been called up before now, but it's also OK to think he shouldn't have been. There are three roles to call him up, I think, and I think all three of them one could take one side or the other:

 

a) He could replace ONLY Robinson. OK, but that means just 8 at-bats per week for the #1 prospect. Personally, I don't like that. But if you want him in that role, fine. I think it's a little bombastic to declare that if the Twins don't put their #1 prospect in that role, they're not trying. 

 

B. He could replace Hunter. Personally, I think this is unrealistic, not just for the Twins but for any MLB team. Hunter isn't just a random 40yo free agent. He's arguably the most popular Twin since Kirby, which puts him above a couple of MVPs, a multiple Cy Young Award winner and a Hall of Famer who also happens to the be the Twins manager this year. He also gets credit in the clubhouse for helping the team come together this year and the development of the youngsters, most of whom happen to be outfielders. Benching him could hurt as much as it helps, even if he continues to slump. I can see others' points on this - I see their logic and numbers - it just strikes me as so unrealistic to be as if it came from a fantasy baseball owner. 

 

c) He could take select at-bats from Hicks and Rosario. This makes the most sense to me, but that is a "feel" call. I think you have to know how the players are going to react and I don't. 

 

Finally, all of those scenarios assume that Buxton will be quite a bit more productive than he was in his limited callup. 

 

So I guess I don't see the arguments, but I fail to see the basis for outrage about the club's treatment of Buxton. I'll add this: I'm very much looking forward to seeing him and Sano in the lineup together for the first time tomorrow.

 

John, with all respect,your #2 above may be one of the silliest points I've seen in a long time by a professional writer. He's popular so the Twins can't bench him? He's hitting .235 and he's a liability in the field and the Twins can't bench him? He or Hicks or Rosario were blocking arguably the best prospect in baseball so who do you bench? Let's see, the best hitters and fielders or the most popular 40 year old liability on the roster? That's why you pay a GM $millions to make decisions rather than manage via an Internet poll.

 

But, in fairness, I have to add that apparently the GM agrees with you. Which supports my other opinion that he, too, should be benched.

[sane]

"'Twins gonna do what Twins gonna do' nullifies any debate about what Twins management does"

There is no debate if EVERYONE (including the Twins) agrees that what they do is wrong, but they are going to do it regardless. You can't debate when everyone agrees.

COMPLAINING however is NOT nullified. It's useless, but it's not nullified.

[Willihammer]

 

Hamstring, I think.

Ugh, crap. I really hope this doesn't linger.