Meyer Optioned, Ervin Santana to be Added

[curt1965]

Perkins can't pitch in every circumstance in the late innings. I think Molitor has to look at the big picture-there were two more games after last night's game. Do you pitch him in the 8th? Then if successful, then in the 9th?

So now he's pitched in the first two games against the Royals. Can he pitch effectively in game #3?

And what about the Sunday game.........

Someone else HAS to step up and help. You are never going to be successful over the course of a year unless you have guys that understand and pitch to their roles. The Royals are the definition of understanding this concept!

[tharasix]

May is headed to the bullpen, according to ESPN.

[Mike Sixel]

 

May is headed to the bullpen, according to ESPN.

 

Ugh. Raiser your hand if you like that idea better than Pelfrey?

[drjim]

Don't like it but also don't think it lasts very long.

 

Best case he skips a couple of starts and gets back in the rotation after the all star break. Keeps his total innings down and has him fresher down the stretch.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Don't like it but also don't think it lasts very long.

 

Best case he skips a couple of starts and gets back in the rotation after the all star break. Keeps his total innings down and has him fresher down the stretch.

 

He'll be pitching in a new role... who knows what effect that will have. They are screwing around with a good young pitcher because they can't let go of Pelfrey. Ryan yet again shows how limited he is as a decision maker.

[shimrod]

Pelfrey is pitching too poorly to be trusted out of the pen so we'll keep giving him starts. Makes perfect sense to me.

[adorduan]

 

May is headed to the bullpen, according to ESPN.

Yuck.  Should have been Pelfry.  His June has shown that the first 2 months were a mirage.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Don't like it but also don't think it lasts very long.

 

Best case he skips a couple of starts and gets back in the rotation after the all star break. Keeps his total innings down and has him fresher down the stretch.

 

I hope it doesn't last very long either, but the heart of the problem here is that Trevor May (a decidedly superior pitcher, especially of late over Pelfrey) got demoted.  

 

What else beside "defer to the veteran" could explain that?   The Twins aren't the only ones to do this sort of thing, but damn I wish they were one of the few to buck this sort of "wisdom" and just do the thing that makes the most damn sense instead.

[ashbury]

Ugh. Raiser your hand if you like that idea better than Pelfrey?

I looked in vain for the Anti-Like button I wanted to press.

[drivlikejehu]

 

I hope it doesn't last very long either, but the heart of the problem here is that Trevor May (a decidedly superior pitcher, especially of late over Pelfrey) got demoted.  

 

What else beside "defer to the veteran" could explain that?   The Twins aren't the only ones to do this sort of thing, but damn I wish they were one of the few to buck this sort of "wisdom" and just do the thing that makes the most damn sense instead.

 

I think very few other clubs make this choice. 

[TheLeviathan]

I think very few other clubs make this choice.

 

Most teams stupidly defer to veterans, just like the Twins.

[ttreadway]

After last night, I firmly believe we have ridden the Pelfrey train as long as we should. It was great while it lasted, but May should be slotted in to take Pelf's next start which will be against the tigers. Gosh, I really want to win that series going into the all-star break, and I'd have way more confidence with May than Pelfrey at this point. Pelfrey to the 'pen as the long reliever. Give Graham a couple shots in higher leverage situations, he hasn't blown up yet. And if Presley is out for a while, then this is the perfect chance to call up Duffey/Darnell/Achter.

[drjim]

 

Most teams stupidly defer to veterans, just like the Twins.

 

And money too. To say very few teams is to really not pay attention to what happens across baseball.

 

I don't like it but I think Pelfrey is one more start away from being out of the rotation.

[USAFChief]

I'm more concerned about how Ervin Santana pitches than which of May/Pelfrey is temporarily in the pen.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Most teams stupidly defer to veterans, just like the Twins.

 

May isn't a prospect. He is a big league starter that is outperforming Pelfrey. Out of spring training, sure, many clubs go with the known quantity. This is different. There's no way a smart club like the Cardinals or Astros or Rays would do this. So far as how many dumb organizations there are, I don't know, but this is far from being justifiable on the grounds that everyone else does it.

[jimmer]

 

May isn't a prospect. He is a big league starter that is outperforming Pelfrey. Out of spring training, sure, many clubs go with the known quantity. This is different. There's no way a smart club like the Cardinals or Astros or Rays would do this. So far as how many dumb organizations there are, I don't know, but this is far from being justifiable on the grounds that everyone else does it.

He wasn't trying to justify it when he said that. He was responding to a post that suggested few teams would make the same call. Pretty sure he made it clear he believes it's not the right move by saying 'stupidly'.

[jokin]

 

After last night, I firmly believe we have ridden the Pelfrey train as long as we should. It was great while it lasted, but May should be slotted in to take Pelf's next start which will be against the tigers. Gosh, I really want to win that series going into the all-star break, and I'd have way more confidence with May than Pelfrey at this point. Pelfrey to the 'pen as the long reliever. Give Graham a couple shots in higher leverage situations, he hasn't blown up yet. And if Presley is out for a while, then this is the perfect chance to call up Duffey/Darnell/Achter.

 

 

Uhhh, Rogers?

[ashbury]

Anyone on the 40-man, basically. Which rules out Duffey or Rogers for this year. Unless and until a trade occurs that opens a spot on the 40-man.

[Craig Arko]

Anyone on the 40-man, basically. Which rules out Duffey or Rogers for this year.

Well, they did just open up a spot on the 40-man, didn't they? Pretty sure Buxton took Stauffer's and E. Santana took Schafer's. Which leaves Bernier's spot.

[TheLeviathan]

May I isn't a prospect. He is a big league starter that is outperforming Pelfrey. Out of spring training, sure, many clubs go with the known quantity. This is different. There's no way a smart club like the Cardinals or Astros or Rays would do this. So far as how many dumb organizations there are, I don't know, but this is far from being justifiable on the grounds that everyone else does it.

Seriously, reading comprehension. You actually make my point by listing a grand total of three organizations that would act differently. Most clubs would stupidly do the same for money and respect to a veteran.

 

I wish the Twins were on the shortlist of teams that wouldnt, but they are far from alone.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Seriously, reading comprehension. You actually make my point by listing a grand total of three organizations that would act differently. Most clubs would stupidly do the same for money and respect to a veteran.

I wish the Twins were on the shortlist of teams that wouldnt, but they are far from alone.

 

I listed a few teams that definitely wouldn't. Not sure how you got from there to everyone else doing what the Twins do. Other clubs that wouldn't: Red Sox, Blue Jays, Indians, Athletics, Pirates, Cubs, and Dodgers. So that's 10 I'm confident in. Then there are clubs that would respect the fact May is just a better pitcher... at least another 10+ clubs would be less likely than the Twins to give it to Pelfrey by default.

[TheLeviathan]

Can I get a one time "get out of comment policy free" card to respond to that?

 

If not I will settle for a candlelight vigil for May back in the rotation.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Can I get a one time "get out of comment policy free" card to respond to that?

If not I will settle for a candlelight vigil for May back in the rotation.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of a hunger strike.

[Vanimal46]

While I'm frustrated that May was the one sent to the pen, at the end of the day he's still on the MLB roster. He's shown that he can strike people out and get out of jams. Something the Twins desperately need in the bullpen.

 

On the other hand, Meyer did not get his fair chance to stick before he was sent down. Meanwhile we have unusable arms like Duensing and Thompson locked into the 25 man roster for... reasons. Trim the fat already and bring up some new arms from the farm.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I listed a few teams that definitely wouldn't. Not sure how you got from there to everyone else doing what the Twins do. Other clubs that wouldn't: Red Sox, Blue Jays, Indians, Athletics, Pirates, Cubs, and Dodgers. So that's 10 I'm confident in. Then there are clubs that would respect the fact May is just a better pitcher... at least another 10+ clubs would be less likely than the Twins to give it to Pelfrey by default.

 

Jays:  JA Happ and Aaron Sanchez.  

Indians: Shaun Marcum vs. McAllister this year

Oakland: Hammel vs. Pomeranz last year 

Pirates: Locke vs. Cumpton

Cubs: Edwin Jackson vs. Anyone with a pulse

 

You're just wrong on this.  It's what teams do because they're stuck on rules about fairness and code and what not.  It's not a Twins thing, it's a baseball thing with few exceptions.

 

[drivlikejehu]

 

Jays:  JA Happ and Aaron Sanchez.  

Indians: Shaun Marcum vs. McAllister this year

Oakland: Hammel vs. Pomeranz last year 

Pirates: Locke vs. Cumpton

Cubs: Edwin Jackson vs. Anyone with a pulse

 

You're just wrong on this.  It's what teams do because they're stuck on rules about fairness and code and what not.  It's not a Twins thing, it's a baseball thing with few exceptions.

 

May is succeeding as a Major League starter. I know that wasn't true of Sanchez. None of those examples look like they have anything to do with what I said.

 

I want examples of a young MLB starter demoted for an inferior MLB starter. That's what the Twins are doing. Not starting a prospect in the bullpen after a mid-season callup or choosing a veteran out of spring training, as I specifically said clubs are known to do.

[TheLeviathan]

 

May is succeeding as a Major League starter. I know that wasn't true of Sanchez. None of those examples look like they have anything to do with what I said.

 

I want examples of a young MLB starter demoted for an inferior MLB starter. That's what the Twins are doing. Not starting a prospect in the bullpen after a mid-season callup or choosing a veteran out of spring training, as I specifically said clubs are known to do.

 

No, I gave you examples of a veteran with worse performance being picked over a younger player with better performance.  I'm not going to fit some narrowly tailored argument, if that's your game your point is even worse than I thought.

[drivlikejehu]

 

No, I gave you examples of a veteran with worse performance being picked over a younger player with better performance.  

 

When was Sanchez a better MLB starter than Happ? Or is starting the same as relieving? Is MLB the same as AAA?

[TheLeviathan]

 

When was Sanchez a better MLB starter than Happ? Or is starting the same as relieving? Is MLB the same as AAA?

 

Oh...so now xFIP isn't all that matters but when the innings are pitched matters?  Huh, strange.  

 

I thought all we had to do was plug in one stat and we'd know the best course for the future?

 

Since that's clearly not the case - How many games as a starter need one have pitched to use xFIP as the point of comparison that settles all matter?  Does it have to happen the same year?  For the same team?

 

Just how much extra context are you now adding to your argument? 

[drivlikejehu]

 

Oh...so now xFIP isn't all that matters but when the innings are pitched matters?  Huh, strange.  

 

I thought all we had to do was plug in one stat and we'd know the best course for the future?

 

Since that's clearly not the case - How many games as a starter need one have pitched to use xFIP as the point of comparison that settles all matter?  Does it have to happen the same year?  For the same team?

 

Just how much extra context are you now adding to your argument? 

 

Here is my original comment:

 

"May isn't a prospect. He is a big league starter that is outperforming Pelfrey. Out of spring training, sure, many clubs go with the known quantity. This is different."

 

I've added nothing to my argument. It was straightforward the entire time. May has established himself in the rotation. That is completely different than turning to a prospect who hasn't started in the Majors. 

 

Your argument is dependent on arguing something different - that many clubs tend to defer to veterans in general. I didn't argue against that. I said this situation was different and that many other clubs would not demote May.

 

The only gray area is how many starts a pitcher would need to establish a certain level of performance. May has 15 this year, basically half a season, and to most clubs (and anyone thinking clearly) that would be enough.