Time For Meyer?

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think the Twins would be foolish not to try Meyer back out as a starter.  The issue really is when.  If that's next season, then I think there's some prudence to bringing him up at some point his year to face major league hitters.  If that's yet this year, then I'd imagine that transition will be happening sooner than later.

 

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Here's where I disagree: Pitchers only have so many bullets in their arm- especially arms that have so much of their value tied up in velocity. He's demonstrated that he can be a successful reliever in AAA and he'll need to learn to get out major league hitters eventually. So why waste those bullets in meaningless AAA games, when instead he can be cutting his teeth in the majors while providing some value for those bullets he's firing?

 

 

I get that, but if those bullets are blanks, it's a complete waste of service time as well as it hurts the team's chances over  both the short and long haul. I'm not sure Meyer is being wasted in AAA given that he's transitioned for all of 16 innings.  That's the equivalent of 2-3 starts.  He's doing well in AAA as a reliever, I do think there's something to letting him get some confidence before any decision is made, whether that's to turn him back into a starter or to let him get major league hitters out as a reliever. 

[jimmer]

We are STILL waiting for the fruits of the Span trade to do SOMETHING for us.  But I guess if Bert can call May and Gibson young pitchers, Meyer still is.

 

Makes me sad we are still talking service time with a guy who would be 32 or so when he became a FA if he got promoted right now. 

[Loosey]

Tonkin optioned, corresponding move to come.  Meyer?

[Mike Sixel]

 

I get that, but if those bullets are blanks, it's a complete waste of service time as well as it hurts the team's chances over  both the short and long haul. I'm not sure Meyer is being wasted in AAA given that he's transitioned for all of 16 innings.  That's the equivalent of 2-3 starts.  He's doing well in AAA as a reliever, I do think there's something to letting him get some confidence before any decision is made, whether that's to turn him back into a starter or to let him get major league hitters out as a reliever. 

 

He's 25 and a pitcher, service time is no longer relevant.

[spinowner]

We've had the conversation about relievers being failed starters. I think the Twins still want to see if Meyer can succeed as a starter but if he can consistently blow people away one inning at a time as a reliever and if he can handle the psychological stress of closing he could become very valuable in that role.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

He's 25 and a pitcher, service time is no longer relevant.

 

Yes, perhaps service time isn't relevant.  His results certainly are and Meyer hasn't exactly overwhelmed AAA hitters.  I'm all for calling a guy up who has a chance to perform, but Meyer has a lot more question marks right now than several of his counterparts in Rochester. 

[twinssouth]

 

Yes, perhaps service time isn't relevant.  His results certainly are and Meyer hasn't exactly overwhelmed AAA hitters.  I'm all for calling a guy up who has a chance to perform, but Meyer has a lot more question marks right now than several of his counterparts in Rochester. 

 

Meyer has overwhelmed AAA hitters when he's on.  His problem has been control, when he's wild, he grooves his FB, then they can hit him.

 

[drjim]

 

We are STILL waiting for the fruits of the Span trade to do SOMETHING for us.  But I guess if Bert can call May and Gibson young pitchers, Meyer still is.

 

Makes me sad we are still talking service time with a guy who would be 32 or so when he became a FA if he got promoted right now. 

 

To be clear, one person is talking service time and he's wrong.

 

I would call a pitcher who is 27 (TJ delayed) or 25 and pre-arb a young pitcher.

 

And I hope you aren't advocating a move merely to see fruits from a trade instead of what is best for Meyer or the Twins long term. (Though for the record I have thought Meyer should have been up as a reliever anytime the last two weeks but it had absolutely nothing to do with the Span trade).

[jimmer]

 

To be clear, one person is talking service time and he's wrong.

 

I would call a pitcher who is 27 (TJ delayed) or 25 and pre-arb a young pitcher.

 

And I hope you aren't advocating a move merely to see fruits from a trade instead of what is best for Meyer or the Twins long term. (Though for the record I have thought Meyer should have been up as a reliever anytime the last two weeks but it had absolutely nothing to do with the Span trade).

I'm not advocating any such thing.  Pointing out that the Span trade hasn't paid off one little bit yet.  That's a shame considering all the hype surrounding Meyer when that great trade happened.  At this point, it fails under the great thought process/horrible execution category of trades and I doubt that changes significantly.

[jokin]

 

Yes, perhaps service time isn't relevant.  His results certainly are and Meyer hasn't exactly overwhelmed AAA hitters.  I'm all for calling a guy up who has a chance to perform, but Meyer has a lot more question marks right now than several of his counterparts in Rochester. 

 

Uhh, yeah, he has.  The only impediment to Meyer moving up is Meyer and his variable release point..  He's suddenly become more hittable this year due to his lack of control.  

[howieramone2]

 

I'm not advocating any such thing.  Pointing out that the Span trade hasn't paid off one little bit yet.  That's a shame considering all the hype surrounding Meyer when that great trade happened.  At this point, it fails under the great thought process/horrible execution category of trades and I doubt that changes significantly.

I think it falls under the category, that our favorite team's timeline differs from that of the fan boards. I believe it will change very significantly in the next year.

[jokin]

 

I think it falls under the category, that our favorite team's timeline differs from that of the fan boards. I believe it will change very significantly in the next year.

 

A timeline that calls for them NOT calling up a fire-balling Top 25 college pitcher in his 3rd professional year (2014), when he was dominating at his level for much of the season?  And a timeline that involves a major step backward in 2015, to the point that some are saying his career as a starter is on the brink?  This year's results makes it seem clear that he isn't getting the necessary coaching/strength training/counsel for his unique 6'9" frame and psychological make-up at AAA and a change in scenery to the major league roster, sooner rather than later, might be the best thing for him.  

[howieramone2]

 

A timeline that calls for them NOT calling up a fire-balling Top 25 college pitcher in his 3rd professional year (2014), when he was dominating at his level for much of the season?  And a timeline that involves a major step backward in 2015, to the point that some are saying his career as a starter is on the brink?  This year's results makes it seem clear that he isn't getting the necessary coaching/strength training/counsel for his unique 6'9" frame and psychological make-up at AAA and a change in scenery to the major league roster, sooner rather than later, might be the best thing for him.  

There's no crying in baseball.

[USAFChief]

I wonder if KC is sorry they pulled the plug on Davis as a starter, and are now "wasting" him as a one inning reliever.

 

To me, waiting around for season after season for Meyer to suddenly be able to command three pitches well enough to be a good big league starter is most likely wishful thinking, not to mention a team in contention TODAY needs an infusion of bullpen talent.

 

Leave him there, at least for 2015, and get him up here for a trial run. Stat.

[jokin]

 

I wonder if KC is sorry they pulled the plug on Davis as a starter, and are now "wasting" him as a one inning reliever.

To me, waiting around for season after season for Meyer to suddenly be able to command three pitches well enough to be a good big league starter is most likely wishful thinking, not to mention a team in contention TODAY needs an infusion of bullpen talent.

Leave him there, at least for 2015, and get him up here for a trial run. Stat.

 

+100 Yep.  Should have made this move in spring, 2014.  How far ahead of the curve, in terms of clarity, would the Twins be now in beginning to realize full value on their best prospect arm if they had gone with the St Louis method last year instead of the pitch count/innings limitation plan last year?

[jimmer]

 

I think it falls under the category, that our favorite team's timeline differs from that of the fan boards. I believe it will change very significantly in the next year.

yeah, I don't buy this even a little bit.  This guy turns 26 before next season starts.  We gave up a quality CF three off-seasons ago, with a nice contract, to get an touted ace potential guy and he still, at 25, isn't ready to even break into the rotation, and now isn't even starting in the minors.  It is not, in any way,unreasonable to have expected this highly touted pitcher to be in the rotation already.

[jimmer]

 

I wonder if KC is sorry they pulled the plug on Davis as a starter, and are now "wasting" him as a one inning reliever.

To me, waiting around for season after season for Meyer to suddenly be able to command three pitches well enough to be a good big league starter is most likely wishful thinking, not to mention a team in contention TODAY needs an infusion of bullpen talent.

Leave him there, at least for 2015, and get him up here for a trial run. Stat.

In fairness, TB had already determined Davis was a reliever before KC ever got him.  Just took KC 5 months to come to the same conclusion.

[jimmer]

BTW, Span just threw out a runner at 2B. He gunned the guy out, and the guys at MLB Network (led by the jack-wagon Harold Reynolds) gave some credit to Harper and absolutely no credit to Span.  

 

They originally said Span probably didn't even know the guy would be going, that he just routinely threw it in and just got a runner going who had no business tying to go.  THEN after seeing the replay and noticing that Span actually geared up and rifled that thing in, they said it was probably Harper yelling to Span that the guy was going.

[DaveW]

I wonder if KC is sorry they pulled the plug on Davis as a starter, and are now "wasting" him as a one inning reliever.

 

To me, waiting around for season after season for Meyer to suddenly be able to command three pitches well enough to be a good big league starter is most likely wishful thinking, not to mention a team in contention TODAY needs an infusion of bullpen talent.

 

Leave him there, at least for 2015, and get him up here for a trial run. Stat.

I agree with this take, if Meyer comes up and is solid out of the pen for the twins they never take him out, I'd like to see him get one more shot to become a front end rotation guy, we have waited this long, what's another couple months?

[Vanimal46]

He's 25 and a pitcher, service time is no longer relevant.

Hit the nail right on the head 100%. We need to see Meyer on the MLB roster this season, and what better time then now.

[puckstopper1]

 

I believe that he was added to the 40-man roster last winter, or he would have been eligible for the Rule 5 draft.

 

I really think that Meyer's move to the bullpen was just to let him build confidence and the Twins have every intention to move him back to the rotation.  I could see them calling Meyer up in July and letting him work out of the bullpen for the rest of the season, only to option him to AAA next year to stretch him out.  That is, he really has a good spring and shows he's ready to start.

 

This is complete speculation on my part, but it seems like a path that he could take.  If he shows he can't be a starter, there is always a chance that he moves to the pen later, but I can't see the Twins giving up on him being a starter yet.  

Yup - my bad.  I was looking at ESPN.com and they list the non 25 man roster players on the 40 man on the bottom.  Meyer is on the 40 man.  Bring him up!

[Steve Lein]

 

Yes, perhaps service time isn't relevant.  His results certainly are and Meyer hasn't exactly overwhelmed AAA hitters.  I'm all for calling a guy up who has a chance to perform, but Meyer has a lot more question marks right now than several of his counterparts in Rochester. 

 

Sure seemed to me he overwhelmed AAA hitters plenty last year. He did lead the league in strikeouts, after all...

[Loosey]

 

I agree with this take, if Meyer comes up and is solid out of the pen for the twins they never take him out, I'd like to see him get one more shot to become a front end rotation guy, we have waited this long, what's another couple months?

 

Gleeman made this point on his podcast yesterday.  Basically was saying if he wants to get a shot at a starter role again he will need to be pretty damn good in the relief role in the Majors this year.  However, if he is lights out and becomes almost unhittable in 1-2 innings of work the Twins may never move him.  He needs to be good but not TOO good.  I'd be fine with TOO good, but I also would like to see him get one more shot at starting.

[jokin]

 

Gleeman made this point on his podcast yesterday.  Basically was saying if he wants to get a shot at a starter role again he will need to be pretty damn good in the relief role in the Majors this year.  However, if he is lights out and becomes almost unhittable in 1-2 innings of work the Twins may never move him.  He needs to be good but not TOO good.  I'd be fine with TOO good, but I also would like to see him get one more shot at starting.

 

Johan Santana

Jeff Samardzija

Almost every Cardinal starter

 

All of the above started out great in the pen.  The Twins have too much invested in Meyer not to give him every consideration in a SP role.  Probably more than just one shot.

[jimmer]

Santana became a full time starter in the majors at 24 and had a CY Young at 25. Meyer is 25 and in the bullpen in the minors and has never had a cup of coffee in the majors. 

 

There are plenty of cases where it works, and plenty where it doesn't.  It's easy to point to some examples where it works and ignore when it doesn't (and vice versus). The question is, which scenario turns out the most across the board?

[drjim]

 

Santana became a full time starter in the majors at 24 and had a CY Young at 25. Meyer is 25 and in the bullpen in the minors and has never had a cup of coffee in the majors. 

 

There are plenty of cases where it works, and plenty where it doesn't.  It's easy to point to some examples where it works and ignore when it doesn't (and vice versus). The question is, which scenario turns out the most across the board?

 

Are you implying that people take the most extreme examples of success/failure/comp and think they can apply to everyone? Inconceivable!

 

To answer your last question - there is no one way, it really depends on the specific talent.

[jokin]

 

Santana became a full time starter in the majors at 24 and had a CY Young at 25. Meyer is 25 and in the bullpen in the minors and has never had a cup of coffee in the majors. 

 

There are plenty of cases where it works, and plenty where it doesn't.  It's easy to point to some examples where it works and ignore when it doesn't (and vice versus). The question is, which scenario turns out the most across the board?

 

Are you implying that people take the most extreme examples of success/failure/comp and think they can apply to everyone? Inconceivable!

 

To answer your last question - there is no one way, it really depends on the specific talent.

 

1) Johan was a Rule 5 guy for a reason- who toiled for 5 seasons with pretty miserable results in the Astros system, followed by 4 years in the Twins pen with various up-and-down results.

 

2) Samardzija was a college pitcher like Meyer, taken in the 5th round, ranked as high as 79 by BA. 

 

3) The Cards have done the same developmental approach, with practically their entire staff, HS, International and College pitchers, alike.

 

4) What in the world are you talking about, "extremes"? In contrast to Santana and the others, Meyer is an entirely valid comp as a prospect, 1st round draft pick and rated as high as #14 by BP, and has demonstrated mastery at each level.

 

5)  Meyer was "ready" in ST 2014 at age 24 to get his first exposure in the majors in the pen (according to Gardy) and demonstrated dominance of AAA hitters for most of last year as a starter- with the Twins choosing to religiously follow their own "plan" for Meyer instead of opting for MLB experience to hone his filthy stuff and refine his 3rd pitch in a lost season for the Twins with nothing more to lose.

 

6)  The Twins have been demonstrably unsuccessful to this point in their "plan" for Meyer.  It seems clear that they could have gone this RP route they now have chosen, a full season and a half ago.