Time to make some bullpen moves

[DJSim22]

Time to send out Thompson and Tonkin and bring up Thielbar and Darnell.  Thompson has really fell off a cliff since a nice start, Tonkin isn't even trusted to pitch a full inning unless it is mop up time. 

[Thrylos]

Change "Thielbar and Darnell" with "Achter and Oliveros" and sounds about right.  Or go outside the organization to get an arm or two.  If you really want a lefty, I'd love to see what Pat Dean can do in the bigs as a reliever.

 

Thielbar has a 1.623 WHIP and Darnell a 1.688 WHIP in AAA.  There is no reason that they will be improvements over Tonkin or Thompson.

[nicksaviking]

Yes, bring up Oliveros. It would be nice if the team at least pretended to care about having a modern bullpen.

 

I'm not sure why you'd want a group of 8 guys and the only one who has a legit chance of getting a strikeout when one is needed is the closer.

[DJSim22]

Theilbar's WHIP is 1.55 and has been dropping for some time, his numbers are skewed by a couple bad outings.

 

You can switch Acter for Darnell, fine by me. 

[drjim]

As exciting as it is to switch out middling relievers for other middling relievers, isn't it time to give Meyer a shot?

 

Since becoming a reliever, 16.1 ip, 12 h, 1 r, 6 bb, 19 k.

[Craig Arko]

As exciting as it is to switch out middling relievers for other middling relievers, isn't it time to give Meyer a shot?

 

Since becoming a reliever, 16.1 ip, 12 h, 1 r, 6 bb, 19 k.

Yeah, I'll admit my first thought was Thompson and Tonkin down, Meyer and Sano up.

 

In reality, we probably get Thielbar and either Arcia or Santana.

[Danchat]

I would like to see Achter and Oliveros at some point.

 

I think we should give Tonkin a bit longer. He keeps going up and down so often, so if we are going to have an 8 man bullpen, Tonkin might as well get a full-time shot.

 

Even as a fan of Thompson, I think he's proving he can't handle major league innings. I like what Pressly has done so far. Let's get the younger bullpen arms some chances soon.

[DJSim22]

 

As exciting as it is to switch out middling relievers for other middling relievers, isn't it time to give Meyer a shot?

 

Since becoming a reliever, 16.1 ip, 12 h, 1 r, 6 bb, 19 k.

 

I didn't realize his numbers were that good in relief.  He realistically could be called up after the deadline or Sept. if he continues pitching well in relief. 

[drjim]

 

Yes, bring up Oliveros. It would be nice if the team at least pretended to care about having a modern bullpen.

I'm not sure why you'd want a group of 8 guys and the only one who has a legit chance of getting a strikeout when one is needed is the closer.

 

Admittedly nothing says modern bullpen like 27 year old minor league journeymen.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Duensing needs to go, and they need more lefty help from outside the org.

[drjim]

 

I didn't realize his numbers were that good in relief.  He realistically could be called up after the deadline or Sept. if he continues pitching well in relief. 

 

How about tomorrow?

[drjim]

Doogie (FWIW) also tweeted that the Twins are interested in Tyler Clippard. Could probably get him for one of the power arms in AA. I would consider that.

[d-mac]

Doogie (FWIW) also tweeted that the Twins are interested in Tyler Clippard. Could probably get him for one of the power arms in AA. I would consider that.

How about they call up one of the power arms from AA? Last I heard this team was still rebuilding. Please, let's not go making rash trades that will be regretted later.

[Bark's Lounge]

Star Date 2002: Johan Santana Pitched out of the bullpen at the age of 23.

 

Star Date 2015: J.O. Berrios Pitched out of the bullpen at age 21.

 

Why not? it worked out for Santana.

 

P.S. Alex Meyer is going to end up being a reliever. Let's ride that horse!

[Thrylos]

 

How about they call up one of the power arms from AA? Last I heard this team was still rebuilding. Please, let's not go making rash trades that will be regretted later.

 

You cannot be in rebuild mode while contending.  Got to play for this season, since they are there... 

I'd trade Chargois for Clippard in a heart beat.  Clippard is a free agent after this season, so he will not be blocking anyone.

 

As far as AA and below pitchers go, the only one I would think twice about bringing up because he will make the Twins a better team is Tyler Jay.  The rest do not belong in a contender.

[spinowner]

 

You cannot be in rebuild mode while contending.  Got to play for this season, since they are there... 

Are they really there? My opinion is I doubt it. A trade meant to improve the likelihood of success of this year's team lowers the likelihood of success of future teams. If that were not the case then the other team wouldn't make the trade. I say we are still rebuilding and shouldn't make such a trade.

[spinowner]

 

As far as AA and below pitchers go, the only one I would think twice about bringing up because he will make the Twins a better team is Tyler Jay.  The rest do not belong in a contender.

I'm not sure I understand this post, but I'm interpreting it to mean that you think Tyler Jay is major league ready. The fact that he's assigned to high-A obviously means the Twins don't think so. It would be a very big (and very pleasant) surprise if he does well enough to improve the Twins this season.

[nicksaviking]

Admittedly nothing says modern bullpen like 27 year old minor league journeymen.

Normally I'd agree, but I'll cut him some slack with the TJ surgery, and the team's bizarre usage of him. Such as, why has he been starting lately? With his stuff, and the underwhelming abilities of the rest of the relief corp, he and Perkins should have been the only guys with a bullpen spot locked before spring training began. Instead he was sent packing the first week with no legit justification.

[DocBauer]

Absolutely no question the bullpen is a mess right now. Which is very un-Twins. Some of us feel the Twins bullpen has been a strength for YEARS, with lesser seasons only marked down to bullpen fatigue due to rotation failure. Others would look at final numbers and say the Twins always having a decent to strong bullpen wa a myth. My arguement would not be who is right/has been right....whatever. It's that we can ALL agree this bullpen is way, way down what anyone would expect from the Twins.

 

Ironic that we build one of the better and deeper rotations in the AL just in time to have a weak and unreliable bullpen. (Hey, rotation comments are surprising, pleasant, and not personal. Other opinions and numbers say so)

 

Anyway....what do we do? Never, ever liked the Stauffer signing. Not personal, just didn't feel right. Thought Boyer was a AAA fill in who got hot...nice story...looks like the glass slipper either is size 13, or the heel broke off. Too bad. Long time fan of Duensing who really thought he'd make at least a one year comeback with a better rotation. Also thought the Twins had several young arms to choose from, in which they'd find at least ONE, if not two, who were actually ready to stick.

 

Reality Bites: we have a premium closer, a hopefully healthy and back setup man in Fien...........and that's it sports fans. Seriously....that's it. I am not reactionary. I am optimistic and patient, and allow for the ebbs and flows of a season. (For instance, tickled we are over .500 and in contention at this point, and not doing a complete freak out over recent hitting slumps)

 

This team, as constructed, for now, seems set on a 7 man bullpen, with 2 and only 2 spots seemingly spoken for. 3 if you want to include Graham...and not only do you need to...you kind of want to as he actually hasn't pitched badly. 4 spots open.

 

I've read a couple places where people want to blast Oliveros for being a 27 yo journeyman. Not only is that not old for a reliever to find himself, but remember Oliveros was acquired from Detroit, pitched OK-ish in limited time, then missed an entire season in 2013 due to TJ. In 2014 he rehabbed, put up solid numbers, and threw the hardest FB for the entire Twins '14 season during his September stint. Except for a completely unexplainable run of recent starts at AAA, he has pitched very well out of the Rochester bullpen this season. I don't recall if he was ill or "tweaked" by something physical during ST this season...I simply remember he pitched little before being sent down. Felt to me that Twins management already had a plan in place.

 

So what's the story now? 27, 100% healthy, throws harder than anyone else you have in either the ML or Milb pen not named Meyer and you won't promote him because other prospective RHRP throw with less stuff but happen to be on the 40 man? Please!!

 

I want Meyer to start. The Twins want Meyer to start. We ALL want Meyer to start. But right now...he's pitching well out of the pen, and if you really want this team to win games, he just might have the arm to let your do that very thing. I'll be honest, I dont know if I buy this whole St Louis Cardinals way of bridging starters through the pen. But if there was a guy that at the Twins tried this with, Meyer would seem the perfect candidate.

 

Achter? I don't know. He's a good "organizational guy" FWIW. Right now, that, and hopefully being better than the guy you replaced might demand he gets a shot as well.

 

From the left side? I am lost here. Thompson appears an illusion, but might have value as a LOOGY. (But allowed a big HR to a LH hitter against the Cubs today) Long time fan of Duensing as a person and player...but...were he bread...I'd be turning downing my toaster I'm sorry to say. Thielbar and Darnell have been OK-ish for Rochester, which is NOT what I hoped for or expected.

 

Despite difficulties and disappointments, this team is WINNING. Yeah, that's righ. We're over .500 and right in the playoff hunt, winning games despite flaws and slumps, and are competitive each and every day out. And I find myself saying: "why would we audition for roles on the team, such as the bullpen, when we are winning and about to the halfway mark of the season?"

 

And then I pause. And I remember. I am having an absolute BALL with this team...(and what is taking place in milb for the Twins)...but this year, though winning is precious, is NOT supposed to contend this season. Hell, they aren't even suppose to be .500 if you buy in to what "experts" and negative fan soothsayers predicted.

 

And I realize open-mid-season auditions is EXACTLY what this team and this season are about! I am NOT saying "screw this season" by any means. But between what is and what is not working, what might work, who might be ready, where we need to go, cleared kicks in the posterior, etc, it is EXACTLY the right time to audition players and pitchers. This post is about the bullpen. And I will leave it at that. I'd roll through Oliveros, probably Meyer, and every single LH'er at Rochester and Chattanooga at this point, until I find a couple who show enough to stick.

 

It's about the future, not just this week. And if the guys there actually showed enough, we wouldn't be having this discussion now, would we?

[Platoon]

You cannot be in rebuild mode while contending.  Got to play for this season, since they are there... 

I'd trade Chargois for Clippard in a heart beat.  Clippard is a free agent after this season, so he will not be blocking anyone.

 

As far as AA and below pitchers go, the only one I would think twice about bringing up because he will make the Twins a better team is Tyler Jay.  The rest do not belong in a contender.

to make this team a real contender, not just a pretender that got fat playing a string of below .500 teams, you will need way more than one middle reliever! At least two productive sticks, and a catcher. We have the prospects to trade for those rent-a-players, that would make us a 50/50 contender. And then what???

[DJSim22]

 

How about tomorrow?

 

Because throwing him in any high leverage situations would scare the crap out of me. 

[stringer bell]

How about getting down to 12 pitchers? I really think Thompson should go and Tonkin just isn't cutting it. Send them both down and maybe recall Thielbar, who seems to have righted the ship in AAA. I would accept Arcia, Santana or just about anyone else as the 13th position player.

[drjim]

 

Normally I'd agree, but I'll cut him some slack with the TJ surgery, and the team's bizarre usage of him. Such as, why has he been starting lately? With his stuff, and the underwhelming abilities of the rest of the relief corp, he and Perkins should have been the only guys with a bullpen spot locked before spring training began. Instead he was sent packing the first week with no legit justification.

 

I will admit I have not seen him pitch other than the brief cup of coffee but my understanding is that even though he has put up decent AAA numbers (though not quite as good as Pressly or Tonkin for comparison) his stuff isn't going to play up as a setup man. To potentially add value as a reliever he is going to have to go multiple innings (think Pressly role recently) so they want him able to pitch in multiple roles.

 

Oliveros is fine as depth and I would be fine with him calling up but he isn't going to be a difference maker like Meyer might (or someone outside the org).

[drjim]

 

How about they call up one of the power arms from AA? Last I heard this team was still rebuilding. Please, let's not go making rash trades that will be regretted later.

 

They aren't rebuilding, they're fighting for a playoff spot. The relievers in AA aren't even dominating that level and you want to bring them to the bigs?

 

Spin one of those into a contributor is a great use of assets. You aren't ever going to regret trading a minor league reliever unless they turn into Kimbrel, that's why they draft a handful each year.

[drjim]

 

You cannot be in rebuild mode while contending.  Got to play for this season, since they are there... 

I'd trade Chargois for Clippard in a heart beat.  Clippard is a free agent after this season, so he will not be blocking anyone.

 

As far as AA and below pitchers go, the only one I would think twice about bringing up because he will make the Twins a better team is Tyler Jay.  The rest do not belong in a contender.

 

Hey, I completely agree, especially like the Chargois for Clippard idea.

[drjim]

 

Star Date 2002: Johan Santana Pitched out of the bullpen at the age of 23.

 

Star Date 2015: J.O. Berrios Pitched out of the bullpen at age 21.

 

Why not? it worked out for Santana.

 

P.S. Alex Meyer is going to end up being a reliever. Let's ride that horse!

 

I endorse the Berrios idea for later in the year, but not yet. Needs to build up innings first and foremost, but could be a late August/September callup if the Twins are still in it.

[nater79a]

 

You cannot be in rebuild mode while contending.  Got to play for this season, since they are there... 

I'd trade Chargois for Clippard in a heart beat.  Clippard is a free agent after this season, so he will not be blocking anyone.

 

As far as AA and below pitchers go, the only one I would think twice about bringing up because he will make the Twins a better team is Tyler Jay.  The rest do not belong in a contender.

 

Yep. Go get Clippard.  Finish it off with Meyer and Jay.

 

[jun]

This is my solution to make bullpen competitive.

Since Santana is coming back soon, it might be a good idea to move May to the bullpen temporarily since he could strike guys out at will.

Meyer is doing great as a reliever in Rochester, he could be brought up to help the bullpen.

Trade Boyer when his ERA still looks decent for a lefty reliever.

DFA Duensing.

Option Thompson and Tonkin to the minor.

 

Problem solved.

[Jham]

I heard Neil Allen talking about Duensing a week or two ago.  He says he's fine.  His velocity is good, his slider is biting, his main problem has been falling behind in counts.  Duensing seems to be bouncing back.  I don't advocate releasing him considering our other LHRP options. Meyer and Thielbar are obvious options, though I can understand Oliveros' frustration.  I was not too impressed with his call up last year, and my thought was that if he can't clearly jump Tonkin, his usefulness may be limited.  I've been saying Thompson needs to go down for about a month.  He's costing us games right now.

[d-mac]

They aren't rebuilding, they're fighting for a playoff spot. The relievers in AA aren't even dominating that level and you want to bring them to the bigs?

 

Spin one of those into a contributor is a great use of assets. You aren't ever going to regret trading a minor league reliever unless they turn into Kimbrel, that's why they draft a handful each year.

No. Just, no. They, the team, may think they are fighting for a playoff spot. But they aren't. This team is over it's collective head. I know we all want to cheer for a winner so bad after so many poor years, but can we please stop pretending that this team is anything but a pretender? The Twins were very, very lucky with run scoring sequencing for a month and now we're all convinced this team is a playoff contender... please.