2016 Election Thread

[Craig Arko]

A lifeboat.

 

http://cbiftrumpwins.com/#intro

[TheLeviathan]

Trump and Hilldawg win again, Bush is out.  

 

Cruz continues to publicly demonstrate why everyone hates him.

[drjim]

The big question is whether the vast majority of support for Bush (and others that will soon drop out) will go to Rubio or if it will spread around. I don't think it is all that clear cut - I still don't see Rubio as all that viable of a candidate - at his core he is more war, less healthcare and more immigration.

[Squirrel]

Did Bush even have enough support to make a difference for anyone else? He seemed very unenthusiastic about running in the first place and seemed always to have one foot in and one foot out.

[TheLeviathan]

Did Bush even have enough support to make a difference for anyone else? He seemed very unenthusiastic about running in the first place and seemed always to have one foot in and one foot out.

He generated as much money as anyone, so that financial support (if nothing else) goes somewhere.

[gunnarthor]

I knew Bernie was a long shot but I was really hopping he could pull off an upset in Nevada.  Really looks hard to stop HRC now. 

 

Damn.

[Squirrel]

I knew Bernie was a long shot but I was really hopping he could pull off an upset in Nevada.  Really looks hard to stop HRC now. 

 

Damn.

Good!

[USAFChief]

Bernie has no chance in the general election. None.

 

The sooner he goes away the better. All he's doing is helping the eventual R nominee.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I didn't think Trump had a chance because I figured the GOP base would be smart enough to rally around one anti-Donald candidate.

 

That... hasn't been the case. It's kind of amazing, actually. I figured either Rubio (yuck) or Cruz (double yuck) would start building momentum and knock Trump out of the picture in a relatively quick fashion.

 

Then again, we're only a handful of states into the primary. That could still easily happen.

[Hrbowski]

Trump is the most disgraceful creature on Earth. I'm longing for the days of mushy Mitt Romney.

[gunnarthor]

 

Bernie has no chance in the general election. None.

The sooner he goes away the better. All he's doing is helping the eventual R nominee.

Perhaps but neither does Trump.

 

I want a democrat who is actually a democrat and opposes things like the patriot act, targeted killing and creating a surveillance state. I don't want a democrat who didn't support refugees or same-sex marriage until the political winds told her to.  I don't want the democratic party to become republican-lite.  

 

I won't vote for HRC in the general election.  She'll probably still win but ...

[PseudoSABR]

 

Bernie has no chance in the general election. None.

The sooner he goes away the better. All he's doing is helping the eventual R nominee.

This is what you keep hearing from longtime Democrats.  However, the general election polls don't bear that out (not that they mean much), but Sanders is matching up much better against Republican opponents than Hillary.

 

I know Sanders has tapped into that White working class angst, my conservative (never vote Dem) Uncle for one, said he'd choose Sanders over the field.   The fear of socialism I don't think has as much sway for the under-40 crowd.   I think Rachel Maddow tapped into why Bernie has success because he represents liberal values far more than Democrats have for last 30 or so years.  

 

What precisely are you basing that Bernie has "no chance" other than a gut feeling? 

[USAFChief]

Perhaps but neither does Trump.

 

I want a democrat who is actually a democrat and opposes things like the patriot act, targeted killing and creating a surveillance state. I don't want a democrat who didn't support refugees or same-sex marriage until the political winds told her to.  I don't want the democratic party to become republican-lite.  

 

I won't vote for HRC in the general election.  She'll probably still win but ...

I'm not thrilled with Clinton, but better republican-lite than republican-heavy.

 

I also think you're selling Clinton short on her "democrat-ness."

[PseudoSABR]

Oh another white guy with a Semi-automatic last night in my former city, Kalamazoo, killing six people at random.  

[Squirrel]

 

Perhaps but neither does Trump.

 

I want a democrat who is actually a democrat and opposes things like the patriot act, targeted killing and creating a surveillance state. I don't want a democrat who didn't support refugees or same-sex marriage until the political winds told her to.  I don't want the democratic party to become republican-lite.  

 

I won't vote for HRC in the general election.  She'll probably still win but ...

It's your right to not vote. But then don't complain. This 'spoiled child, all or nothing' mentality is a huge part of the problem with our process. "If my candidate doesn't win, I'm going to go home and pout." Change doesn't happen easily, quickly or over night and hardly the way we want it. But it certainly won't happen if people opt out. And for one who has been pretty vocal over the years about various issues, I find that attitude even more disappointing than I do surprising.

[gunnarthor]

 

It's your right to not vote. But then don't complain. This 'spoiled child, all or nothing' mentality is a huge part of the problem with our process. "If my candidate doesn't win, I'm going to go home and pout." Change doesn't happen easily, quickly or over night. But it certainly won't happen if people opt out. And for one who has been pretty vocal over the years about various issues, I find that attitude even more disappointing.

Change has been happening but in the wrong direction - and it's because democrats have decided that they are ok with rights being taken away so long as a democrat is doing it.  On some issues, I bend and end up voting for some democratic turd but on some issues I won't bend.  If the politician thinks a surveillance state or targeted killing are acceptable, I won't vote for her, no matter what letter she has behind her name. 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

Sanders doesn't have a chance because he can't turn out the black vote.  And no Democrat will win if they can't do that.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Sanders doesn't have a chance because he can't turn out the black vote.  And no Democrat will win if they can't do that.

I think he would in the general election.  I don't really see why Hillary would somehow turn them out in the general, but they'd stay home if Sanders was the candidate.   I understand in the primaries they are going for Hillary, but that doesn't indicate that they'd stay home in the general.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I think he would in the general election.  I don't really see why Hillary would somehow turn them out in the general, but they'd stay home if Sanders was the candidate.   I understand in the primaries they are going for Hillary, but that doesn't indicate that they'd stay home in the general.

 

You don't understand why they'd stay home?  I'm not sure if you've been following over the last 20 years or so, but that segment of the voting populace is about as make or break as it gets.  Especially in some of the swing states.

 

If Bernie can't generate excitement in the black voting populace he can't even beat Hillary much less win the general.  It's a problem he's clearly well aware of.

[drjim]

This is what you keep hearing from longtime Democrats. However, the general election polls don't bear that out (not that they mean much), but Sanders is matching up much better against Republican opponents than Hillary.

 

I know Sanders has tapped into that White working class angst, my conservative (never vote Dem) Uncle for one, said he'd choose Sanders over the field. The fear of socialism I don't think has as much sway for the under-40 crowd. I think Rachel Maddow tapped into why Bernie has success because he represents liberal values far more than Democrats have for last 30 or so years.

 

What precisely are you basing that Bernie has "no chance" other than a gut feeling?

You are correct, those general election polls mean nothing.

 

Sanders does well with under 30s because they are passionate but really have minimal life experience.

 

That said, I do see the appeal of Sanders to the blue collar disenfranchised. I think it is very beneficial for our system to have people like him and Trump shake it up.

[drjim]

Change has been happening but in the wrong direction - and it's because democrats have decided that they are ok with rights being taken away so long as a democrat is doing it. On some issues, I bend and end up voting for some democratic turd but on some issues I won't bend. If the politician thinks a surveillance state or targeted killing are acceptable, I won't vote for her, no matter what letter she has behind her name.

Really? Change is going the wrong direction? Say more.

[stringer bell]

If Bernie's running mate were Corey Booker, I think he would bring out the black vote. I've always viewed Hill as more electable than Bernie, although polls right now disagree. IMHO, most of the reason that Clinton polls so poorly against Republicans is that she is so well-known and that she's been the presumptive nominee since Obama was elected in 2012, and has been attacked on Benghazi and her e-mails relentlessly.

 

While I would prefer someone less comfortable with the status quo on Wall Street and surveillance/drone warfare, the difference between Clinton and any of the remaining Republicans is enough that I'll gladly vote for her. The Supreme Court issue alone would guarantee my vote for a Democrat.

 

Finally, and most importantly, of the five remaining serious candidates for the White House, the one I think that would be the best president, not the best campaigner, is Hillary Clinton.

 

 

[Squirrel]

 

If Bernie's running mate were Corey Booker, I think he would bring out the black vote. I've always viewed Hill as more electable than Bernie, although polls right now disagree. IMHO, most of the reason that Clinton polls so poorly against Republicans is that she is so well-known and that she's been the presumptive nominee since Obama was elected in 2012, and has been attacked on Benghazi and her e-mails relentlessly.

 

While I would prefer someone less comfortable with the status quo on Wall Street and surveillance/drone warfare, the difference between Clinton and any of the remaining Republicans is enough that I'll gladly vote for her. The Supreme Court issue alone would guarantee my vote for a Democrat.

 

Finally, and most importantly, of the five remaining serious candidates for the White House, the one I think that would be the best president, not the best campaigner, is Hillary Clinton.

 

Those are two points that pretty much sum me up as well. I've had somewhat 'contentious' discussions with family members on this ... my sisters, both New Englanders, are firm in the Bernie camp for different reasons. The Vermonter has been a Bernie backer since his beginnings. And the other has two issues, but primarily single-payer health plan. Both will support Hillary in the general even though they may not completely agree, noting the SC issue. Both understand that you won't find a candidate that you agree with 100%, and if you do, there's usually something else 'wrong' with them. And both realize that you just keep fighting for your beliefs but not giving up ground in the mean time.

[PseudoSABR]

 

You don't understand why they'd stay home?  I'm not sure if you've been following over the last 20 years or so, but that segment of the voting populace is about as make or break as it gets.  Especially in some of the swing states.

 

If Bernie can't generate excitement in the black voting populace he can't even beat Hillary much less win the general.  It's a problem he's clearly well aware of.

If Hillary can generate such excitement, so can Bernie.  I mean what is that they seen in Hillary, that Bernie somehow lacks.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

If Hillary can generate such excitement, so can Bernie.  I mean what is that they seen in Hillary, that Bernie somehow lacks.  

 

I think it's a connection to Bill Clinton.  

 

You're right that conceivably Bernie could do it, but he's basically going all out to do it right now and still getting very little support from black voters.

 

Jim is right, his main attraction is young white liberals with the free college promise.  Part of me seriously wonders if Bernie just smartly seized on an idea to exploit one of the things most hurting those of us under 35 to create a groundswell.  I even believe he means well, but it's by far the most troubling part of his message.  It's also the least likely, statistically speaking, to appeal to black voters.  (Sad and wrong as it may be)

[Squirrel]

 

If Hillary can generate such excitement, so can Bernie.  I mean what is that they seen in Hillary, that Bernie somehow lacks.  

Hmm ... let's see ... a white man vs a woman ... I wonder how a black person can relate to the experiences of a woman in life and in the work force in terms of privilege. And maybe it's not legitimate, but sometimes people will vote for someone whom they perceive can relate to their own experiences.

[Squirrel]

 

 

I think it's a connection to Bill Clinton.  

 

You're right that conceivably Bernie could do it, but he's basically going all out to do it right now and still getting very little support from black voters.

 

Jim is right, his main attraction is young white liberals with the free college promise.  Part of me seriously wonders if Bernie just smartly seized on an idea to exploit one of the things most hurting those of us under 35 to create a groundswell.  I even believe he means well, but it's by far the most troubling part of his message.  It's also the least likely, statistically speaking, to appeal to black voters.  (Sad and wrong as it may be)

I don't think it is something he smartly seized on to appeal to a block of voters. I think Bernie is truly idealistic and believes in the potential and possibility. That's what his appeal is. I just don't think it's enough. He makes for a great candidate, not unlike the candidate Obama was in 2008, but I don't think he'd make the better president.

[drjim]

I think it's a connection to Bill Clinton.

 

You're right that conceivably Bernie could do it, but he's basically going all out to do it right now and still getting very little support from black voters.

 

Jim is right, his main attraction is young white liberals with the free college promise. Part of me seriously wonders if Bernie just smartly seized on an idea to exploit one of the things most hurting those of us under 35 to create a groundswell. I even believe he means well, but it's by far the most troubling part of his message. It's also the least likely, statistically speaking, to appeal to black voters. (Sad and wrong as it may be)

Bernies other huge draw is his attacks on banks and income inequality.

 

The issue is that none of it adds up and will be destroyed if actually analyzed by an opposition. Part of why those general election polls look good now.

 

Clinton could destroy him if came down to it, but that would be bad politics and really hurt the party. Her hope is mostly keep powder dry, not attack and keep the party together.

[TheLeviathan]

Some of his ways of paying for it make some sense, but overall he's going to have a hard time presenting those ideas versus a Republican.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Hmm ... let's see ... a white man vs a woman ... I wonder how a black person can relate to the experiences of a woman in life and in the work force in terms of privilege. And maybe it's not legitimate, but sometimes people will vote for someone whom they perceive can relate to their own experiences.

No need to patronize me.  And I think you're oversimplifying how marginalized groups vote, though I take your point.   In the general election, I think Black people will be plenty motivated to vote for the candidate who candidly talks about criminal justice reform (which will be both Hillary and Bernie).  

 

My point continues to be that those motivated to vote for Hillary in the primary, will likely vote for Bernie in the general, rather than just stay home because he's an old white guy.