2016 Election Thread

[Squirrel]

 

Well, okay ... I can see that ... segmented, and definitely in the burbs ... but it isn't without diversity.

Mind you ... I wouldn't compare it to Chicago, for instance ... but much better than some cities of equal size and stature.

[Craig Arko]

 

Meh, Mpls-St Paul area does have more melting pot stuff going on than you might think.

Yeah, I oberved that during my stint as an ESL/Math teacher at Neighborhood House in Saint Paul. The cities themselves are pretty dynamic, if you look outside the old money areas.

 

Not so much in the 'burbs or outstate regions.

 

Edit - nothing like a little Hmong moonshine.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Yes, I would. Bernie or bust supporters would, too, it would appear. It's becoming quite clear that beyond the vision and idealism I thought I admired and compared to Wellstone is a man who just wants to destroy not help to change, unless it's done according to him. That kind of arrogant self-righteousness isn't worthy of my vote. I bet he'll be running regardless, as will Trump, if they end run him at the convention. I really see a 4-way battle, with the decision going to Congress, and finger pointing all around. But in the end, I think that's what Bernie and the Republicans want. 

I don't know any Bernie-or-bust supporters.  But I guess I know some Hilary-or-bust supporters.  And I think your very wrong on Bernie running against Hillary if he loses the nomination.  He said yesterday that he would support her.  I know there's lots of never-would-vote-for-Hillary people, and they drive me nuts, but their attitude isn't rooted in loyalty to Bernie, rather it's (unfairly) adverse to Clinton.  Let's not be either of these people.  

 

I honestly don't get your attitude towards Bernie; I don't like his comments about Hillary being unqualified (even as a retort to similar comments she may have made), but campaigns can get ugly, and largely he's been very classy towards Clinton with some media-emboldened exceptions.  You've said in the past that issues like the Supreme Court and women's right are tantamount to you, are they less important than how they candidates are treating each other late in the primary? It just doesn't make sense from the values are more important than any candidate point of view.

 

Honestly, this feels like a bit of hot-air, as Bernie is unlikely to win the nomination, and you really won't face a choice of voting for Bernie or benefiting Republican.  

[Mike Sixel]

Went to a party in Eden Prairie a few weeks ago......among the crowd, we were the only couple where both members were "white". While I would never argue that the area is diverse, it is more diverse than many of us think.

 

I have no idea what that has to do with knowing anything about politics, though.

 

 

[PseudoSABR]

 

Bernie isn't a democrat, and him getting 4 years in office would accomplish nothing positive. I would vote for him over Cruz, but that's about the only way I could vote for him.

He'd have a liberal mandate for the first time since 1920, and if he brings a host of democrats into Congress with him; well, it would seem that Sanders helped redefined what it means to be Democrat.  And really the party-loyalty thing from supposed liberals is well anti-progressive/liberal.  It's not about what team wins, and about getting people that mirror our values into the right office.  

[Craig Arko]

They are all unqualified; yet one of them is going to be elected anyway.

[PseudoSABR]

 

It depends, quite honestly ... Illinois won't carry for Cruz, so I won't have to vote for Sanders. Doubtful Illinois would carry for Trump, either, so I'm off the hook either way.

That's some stomach-turning logic right there.  I'm just surprised. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

They are all unqualified; yet one of them is going to be elected anyway.

Do a set of qualification even exist for the leader of the free world? The job requires a skill-set beyond any one person, experience only gained through a disqualifying career.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I don't see it, it again all seems very segmented.

Weren't you the one who started a thread about things to do in Minneapolis because you knew nothing about it?

[DaveW]

 

I don't know any Bernie-or-bust supporters. 

riiiight

[DaveW]

 

 

Weren't you the one who started a thread about things to do in Minneapolis because you knew nothing about it?

I was looking for new places to try (specifically where I was staying)

I have been to MSP prob 30-40 times in my life.

[Craig Arko]

 

Do a set of qualification even exist for the leader of the free world? The job requires a skill-set beyond any one person, experience only gained through a disqualifying career.

Maybe the whole 'leader of the free world' motif is part of the problem.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Maybe the whole 'leader of the free world' motif is part of the problem.

How about leader of the United States and off-shore tax havens? Narrows the necessary qualifications, a bit.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I was looking for new places to try (specifically where I was staying)

I have been to MSP prob 30-40 times in my life.

my bad.

[PseudoSABR]

 

riiiight

I know they exist; but I don't know any personally, and no one here posts to that affect.  True Bernie-or-bust supporters, in my mind, probably wouldn't be inclined to vote at all, if not for Bernie.   The all-in Bernie supporters I know would definitely vote to keep the Republicans out, no matter the candidate.  

 

Like I said before, I think this my-candidate-or-nothing attitude is a lot of posturing and I think people will come to their senses and, if nothing else, vote against the Republican's candidate.

[Squirrel]

 

He'd have a liberal mandate for the first time since 1920, and if he brings a host of democrats into Congress with him; well, it would seem that Sanders helped redefined what it means to be Democrat.  And really the party-loyalty thing from supposed liberals is well anti-progressive/liberal.  It's not about what team wins, and about getting people that mirror our values into the right office.  

What host of Democrats will he bring into Congress? Seriously ... I don't see that happening. Has he gone out and stumped for other Democrats this year? Has he used some of his funding to help them get into office? As for mirroring our values ... that sounds like voting only for people who you agree with 100% ... and that just doesn't work. And further, to not vote unless they mirror you, is a vote against your own best interests. I agree it's not about what team wins, but I want someone to win who will actually have an effect on change. And despite his message that isn't Sanders. And now he's gone the route of desperation. Calling Clinton unqualified was the last straw in my book. If she is, then he is unqualified by a mile more.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I don't see it, it again all seems very segmented.

I live in one of the few "black neighborhoods" in Minnesota and agree.

 

The typical attitude toward near-north and north Minneapolis simply isn't seen in other parts of the country that are more diverse racially unless you get into neighborhoods with really "scary" names like Compton or Watts. I lived in Long Beach for a decade and only Inland Empire white trash morons thought it was weird for a white person to live in the home of Snoop Dogg.

 

People double-take on a daily basis when I tell them I live in north Minneapolis. It's tiresome and boring and more than a little bit racist. My house is literally six minutes from downtown Minneapolis and the neighborhood is quiet as a mouse 99% of the time. Much quieter than supposedly "nice" neighborhoods like Uptown.

 

I've lived in the home for five years now and have somehow managed to not get shot, not even once.

[Squirrel]

 

I don't know any Bernie-or-bust supporters.  But I guess I know some Hilary-or-bust supporters.  And I think your very wrong on Bernie running against Hillary if he loses the nomination.  He said yesterday that he would support her.  I know there's lots of never-would-vote-for-Hillary people, and they drive me nuts, but their attitude isn't rooted in loyalty to Bernie, rather it's (unfairly) adverse to Clinton.  Let's not be either of these people.  

 

I honestly don't get your attitude towards Bernie; I don't like his comments about Hillary being unqualified (even as a retort to similar comments she may have made), but campaigns can get ugly, and largely he's been very classy towards Clinton with some media-emboldened exceptions.  You've said in the past that issues like the Supreme Court and women's right are tantamount to you, are they less important than how they candidates are treating each other late in the primary? It just doesn't make sense from the values are more important than any candidate point of view.

 

Honestly, this feels like a bit of hot-air, as Bernie is unlikely to win the nomination, and you really won't face a choice of voting for Bernie or benefiting Republican.  

I have been seeing this Bernie or bust in my FB feeds for weeks now. Even MoveOn has a petition that has been going around about getting Bernie to run as an independent/socialist if he doesn't get the nomination. It has been very widespread and prevalent and goes well beyond those who don't like Clinton. And many of these supporters have been promoting the right wing memes against Clinton for weeks/months because they have nothing else. You may not like her or agree with her on everything, but she is still the most qualified and I believe will do a more thoughtful job overall than Bernie. His comments about her being unqualified was it for me, as she is the most qualified of all. That is based in self-righteous arrogance tapping into the same. I'm sorry I ever compared him to Paul Wellstone. They were friends in the Senate, but he has now truly stepped over a line and lacks Wellstone's integrity.

[nicksaviking]

 

I have been seeing this Bernie or bust in my FB feeds for weeks now. Even MoveOn has a petition that has been going around about getting Bernie to run as an independent/socialist if he doesn't get the nomination. It has been very widespread and prevalent and goes well beyond those who don't like Clinton. And many of these supporters have been promoting the right wing memes against Clinton for weeks/months because they have nothing else. You may not like her or agree with her on everything, but she is still the most qualified and I believe will do a more thoughtful job overall than Bernie. His comments about her being unqualified was it for me, as she is the most qualified of all. That is based in self-righteous arrogance tapping into the same. I'm sorry I ever compared him to Paul Wellstone. They were friends in the Senate, but he has now truly stepped over a line and lacks Wellstone's integrity.

 

I think this is last gasp stuff by Sanders. He's winning these primaries and it's still clearly not making a difference, he doesn't know what to do. He's also defensive after the Daily News article and is just swinging away with nothing to really aim at.

 

However, the tone on the Democratic side is still very, very cordial comparatively. It's more friendly than Clinton/Obama 2012 and probably more friendly than most primaries in recent history that have been competitive. I will be surprised if when all is said and done, Bernie doesn't fully support Clinton. He probably has some young, new to the process voters who will be unjustly butt-hurt who will refuse to support Clinton and petition to get Sanders to run as an independent, but we probably should differentiate a Sanders voter from Sanders himself, I'm not going to hold his millennial supporters and THEIR rhetoric against him.

 

I think this is going to end up looking like the speech from the Father-of-the-Bride at a wedding compared to what ever kind of toxic vomit ends up spewing from the Trump/Cruz train wreck.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I have been seeing this Bernie or bust in my FB feeds for weeks now. Even MoveOn has a petition that has been going around about getting Bernie to run as an independent/socialist if he doesn't get the nomination. It has been very widespread and prevalent and goes well beyond those who don't like Clinton. And many of these supporters have been promoting the right wing memes against Clinton for weeks/months because they have nothing else. You may not like her or agree with her on everything, but she is still the most qualified and I believe will do a more thoughtful job overall than Bernie. His comments about her being unqualified was it for me, as she is the most qualified of all. That is based in self-righteous arrogance tapping into the same. I'm sorry I ever compared him to Paul Wellstone. They were friends in the Senate, but he has now truly stepped over a line.

I'm not sure how my post elicited this response.  I don't doubt that Bernie-or-bust people exist and are loud and annoying, but I think they are full of hot-air and will come to their senses.   Let's not be such people.  

 

I just don't get the point of drawing a line; or trying to make the 'unqualified' statement some undermining their 'friendship.'  I see it as unfortunate politics; Bernie's campaign and himself responded hastily to a shoddy-sourced WaPo article titled, “Clinton questions whether Sanders is qualified to be president.”  It's too bad Bernie went tit-for-tat and did so aggressively, but I don't get why you drew the line here.  It just seems arbitrary and hasty and replicates precisely what annoys you about Bernie-or-bust people.

[PseudoSABR]

 

What host of Democrats will he bring into Congress? Seriously ... I don't see that happening. Has he gone out and stumped for other Democrats this year? Has he used some of his funding to help them get into office? 

The polls suggest he would fair much better against the Republican candidates--my suggestion is should that occur, it would, indeed, help elections down-ticket.  If he were the nominee do you doubt that he wouldn't stump for other candidate or help fund them?  I'm sure the primary season has chilled Hillary's efforts to do the same.  (Again, this whole party v. Bernie thing is so...oddly establishment politics, as if loyalty to the party should inform our voting preference.)

 

And you mistook my mirroring values comment; I'd suggest that either Democratic candidate reflects liberal values, even if they aren't our preferred candidate.  I didn't mean mirror as a perfect reflection, but rather to simply emphasize voting on values and not on the candidate is far more important.  

[DaveW]

 

The polls suggest he would fair much better against the Republican candidates

A few polls do...the majority actually don't come to that conclusion at all.

[Willihammer]

I live in one of the few "black neighborhoods" in Minnesota and agree.

 

The typical attitude toward near-north and north Minneapolis simply isn't seen in other parts of the country that are more diverse racially unless you get into neighborhoods with really "scary" names like Compton or Watts. I lived in Long Beach for a decade and only Inland Empire white trash morons thought it was weird for a white person to live in the home of Snoop Dogg.

 

People double-take on a daily basis when I tell them I live in north Minneapolis. It's tiresome and boring and more than a little bit racist. My house is literally six minutes from downtown Minneapolis and the neighborhood is quiet as a mouse 99% of the time. Much quieter than supposedly "nice" neighborhoods like Uptown.

 

I've lived in the home for five years now and have somehow managed to not get shot, not even once.

Minneapolis calls for shots fired in the last week:

 

http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/www/groups/public/@mpd/documents/webcontent/wcmsp-177517.pdf

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I live in one of the few "black neighborhoods" in Minnesota and agree.

 

The typical attitude toward near-north and north Minneapolis simply isn't seen in other parts of the country that are more diverse racially unless you get into neighborhoods with really "scary" names like Compton or Watts. I lived in Long Beach for a decade and only Inland Empire white trash morons thought it was weird for a white person to live in the home of Snoop Dogg.

 

People double-take on a daily basis when I tell them I live in north Minneapolis. It's tiresome and boring and more than a little bit racist. My house is literally six minutes from downtown Minneapolis and the neighborhood is quiet as a mouse 99% of the time. Much quieter than supposedly "nice" neighborhoods like Uptown.

 

I've lived in the home for five years now and have somehow managed to not get shot, not even once.

This reads more like a post about prejudice than ethnic diversity! Plenty of white people live in north Minneapolis though I can't speak for whatever street you live on.

[PseudoSABR]

 

He's winning these primaries and it's still clearly not making a difference, he doesn't know what to do. 

It's clearly not making any difference?  Although I think he cannot win the nomination, his recent success has made significant difference in the polls (for the first time nation wide polls show him leading, and he's closing in California and to some extent in New York).   It's probably too little too late.  But I don't think Sanders' 'unqualified' remarks are made out desperation, but from poor judgement resulting from that WaPo article I mentioned above. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

A few polls do...the majority actually don't come to that conclusion at all.

Actually they do.  I haven't seen one poll that has Clinton doing better than Sanders in the general.  (And seriously, why wouldn't you check something like that before (incorrectly) correcting my post? If you're going to tell someone how it really is, might want to make sure you're right.)

 

 

[Squirrel]

The polls suggest he would fair much better against the Republican candidates--my suggestion is should that occur, it would, indeed, help elections down-ticket. If he were the nominee do you doubt that he wouldn't stump for other candidate or help fund them? I'm sure the primary season has chilled Hillary's efforts to do the same. (Again, this whole party v. Bernie thing is so...oddly establishment politics, as if loyalty to the party should inform our voting preference.)

 

And you mistook my mirroring values comment; I'd suggest that either Democratic candidate reflects liberal values, even if they aren't our preferred candidate. I didn't mean mirror as a perfect reflection, but rather to simply emphasize voting on values and not on the candidate is far more important.

Actually, primary results are showing that Bernie isn't bringing in widespread support. His supporters are largely voting only for him and no one or nothing else. The change he preaches about will not happen without Congressional change. Your statement of ushering in support to meet his agenda just isn't there.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Actually, primary results are showing that Bernie isn't bringing in widespread support. His supporters are largely voting only for him and no one or nothing else. The change he preaches about will not happen without Congressional change. Your statement of ushering in support to meet his agenda just isn't there.

So if Bernie beats the Republicans by 10 to 20 points, you really are maintaining that won't have an effect down-ticket.  (And can we get some support/links for some of these assertions; both you and Dave are generalizing and making broad statements of fact without making the effort to support it.  The things you are assuming are true, I'm not sure actually are.

 

You're discounting the value of having a mandate from the voting public; this notion that Democratic Congress would impede Bernie's agenda is absurd, and if it were the case, well, we need new democrats.  And the notion that Clinton would have an easy time dealing with a Republican Congress is also absurd.  The Republicans will equally impede who ever the nominee is.  Sure Clinton might be more willing to appease them (but that's not necessarily a good thing).

 

Honestly, this line of thinking is the same one that gets liberals negotiating at the 50 yard-line.  I'm sick of it. 

[nicksaviking]

 

It's clearly not making any difference?  Although I think he cannot win the nomination, his recent success has made significant difference in the polls (for the first time nation wide polls show him leading, and he's closing in California and to some extent in New York).   It's probably too little too late.  But I don't think Sanders' 'unqualified' remarks are made out desperation, but from poor judgement resulting from that WaPo article I mentioned above. 

 

This is basically what I was trying to sum up in my first paragraph. For all his winning, he's still losing.

 

Also, the polls may look good now for Sanders because he and Clinton are playing relatively nice. What happens to the polls if he's going to head-to-head against Trump who continually calls him a Communist? That word is going to turn off a lot of people who aren't smart enough to know the difference or too afraid to care. And there is absolutely no doubt that Trump and the republicans would drum up a BS Red Scare if Bernie won.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Minneapolis calls for shots fired in the last week:

http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/www/groups/public/@mpd/documents/webcontent/wcmsp-177517.pdf

Cool story. My neighborhood is still quiet.