2016 Election Thread

[Hrbowski]

 

A full quarter of the defense budget is spent employing over 2 million active and reserve personnel. I mean, the country is surrounded on all sides by either an ocean or an ally. What do we need 2 million (mostly soldiers) for? Maybe its my own naivete on the subject but in the age of drones and ICBMs and remote everything, that seems like the most obvious place to make cuts. And the least politically palatable.

Active personal is 1.3 million, and you also have to set your military size to other countries like China.

[Craig Arko]

Active personal is 1.3 million, and you also have to set your military size to other countries like China.

It's not like they'll be fighting it out toe-to-toe with swords and spears. Anyway most defense spending waste is going to the large contractors (used to work for one of those), and while that does provide a number of high paying jobs those dollars and the smart people being paid with them could be doing a number of other, perhaps more useful, things for the nation and the world of which it is a part.

 

A lot of them do already, as that engineering talent base fueled the growth of the medical device industry (worked for one of those, too) which, while often owned by corrupt pharmaceutical companies is still a step up from building bombs.

[DaveW]

So embarrassing.

 

http://gizmodo.com/tsas-1-4-million-app-takes-about-10-minutes-to-build-1769084655

 

How on earth can they justify that building that app and "training" would cost 1.4 million?

[nicksaviking]

 

I gotta admit, I'm losing faith in the USA experiment right now. All this anti LGBT legislation and hatred of immigrants and this week's evil religion is depressing. It's like the 60s and 70s never happened.

 

I don't understand the fear, I don't understand the hate, and I don't understand why governments that claim to be about small government turn out to be the most oppressive. 

 

The present always seems worse than the past, but then in retrospect it usually isn't. Tough times, for sure, but it's always the malcontents and those that fear change that scream the loudest. They'll quiet down when they realize once again they aren't going to win and history is going to make them the villains.

 

In the grand scheme of things, evolution still has an undefeated record against conservatism.

[DaveW]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/05/this-new-york-daily-news-interview-was-pretty-close-to-a-disaster-for-bernie-sanders/

 

Sort of goes to the point that a lot of us have been having issues with Bernie all along, once the actual questions come on how he will actually achieve his campaign promises, this go......poorly. If this was Hilary she would be getting crucified by people.

 

Keep in mind the NYDN has been pretty "pro-bernie" throughout the campaign, so this isn't some hatchet job.

[DaveW]

 

 

The present always seems worse than the past, but then in retrospect it usually isn't. Tough times, for sure, but it's always the malcontents and those that fear change that scream the loudest. They'll quiet down when they realize once again they aren't going to win and history is going to make them the villains.

 

In the grand scheme of things, evolution still has an undefeated record against conservatism.

Yeah it's only a few (dumb) states doing this crap currently, eventually those things will get sorted out sooner than later.

 

It is embarrassing as hell though...

[Craig Arko]

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/americans-favor-fifteen-dollars-an-hour-for-congress

 

This one speaks for itself.

[TheLeviathan]

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/05/this-new-york-daily-news-interview-was-pretty-close-to-a-disaster-for-bernie-sanders/

 

Sort of goes to the point that a lot of us have been having issues with Bernie all along, once the actual questions come on how he will actually achieve his campaign promises, this go......poorly. If this was Hilary she would be getting crucified by people.

 

Keep in mind the NYDN has been pretty "pro-bernie" throughout the campaign, so this isn't some hatchet job.

 

This line of questioning continues and it gets even worse.  It's pointed out to Bernie that legally he may not have any ground to stand on and his response is "I haven't studied the legal aspects".  So you haven't even studied if it's plausible but you're stumping on it?

 

That seems like a rather massive oversight.  It continues when he says he can't cite anything that people did wrong but continues to promise that he'll prosecute them.  Just, unacceptable.

[DaveW]

 

This line of questioning continues and it gets even worse.  It's pointed out to Bernie that legally he may not have any ground to stand on and his response is "I haven't studied the legal aspects".  So you haven't even studied if it's plausible but you're stumping on it?

 

That seems like a rather massive oversight.  It continues when he says he can't cite anything that people did wrong but continues to promise that he'll prosecute them.  Just, unacceptable.

Some of it is very similar to Trump, I don't think either guy realistically thought they had any real chance in hell when they announced, but figured they could help their "brand" (especially Trump) by staying in the race for a bit. Now that we have gotten closer to an actual decision both guys have pretty much been shown to have no real plan behind their main talking points, and reality is a hard slap in the face.

 

Of course at this stage, Bernie supporters and Trump supporters won't care, and they will just cry "media bias", but this won't fly with the undecided folks.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/05/this-new-york-daily-news-interview-was-pretty-close-to-a-disaster-for-bernie-sanders/

 

Sort of goes to the point that a lot of us have been having issues with Bernie all along, once the actual questions come on how he will actually achieve his campaign promises, this go......poorly. If this was Hilary she would be getting crucified by people.

 

Keep in mind the NYDN has been pretty "pro-bernie" throughout the campaign, so this isn't some hatchet job.

I'm surprised he can't give a coherent answer to that question at this point in his career. A politician like him should at least have a talking point to regurgitate. Maybe he can hire Rubio to his campaign for memorization tips.

 

Granted, the WaPo opinion writers are the biggest tools in the MSM in my opinion, but I'm definitely not feeling the bern after seeing that one.

[DaveW]

 

I'm surprised he can't give a coherent answer to that question at this point in his career. A politician like him should at least have a talking point to regurgitate. Maybe he can hire Rubio to his campaign for memorization tips.

Granted, the WaPo opinion writers are the biggest tools in the MSM in my opinion, but I'm definitely not feeling the bern after seeing that one.

WaPo weren't the only ones who picked up on it. Dozens of other well respected ones did as well, The Atlantic for instance: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/bernie-sanderss-rough-ride-with-the-daily-news/476919/

 

And I mean, the transcript really does speak for itself.

 

Yes, it is very surprising that at this stage of the game he wouldn't at least have a few talking points on these type of questions which were inevitably going to come up at some point.
 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Agreed.

[DaveW]

 

Agreed.

I concur with you.

[DaveW]

 

I'm going Trump.

 

Was going back through the beginning of this thread, found this joke/gem.

Once Trump is elected emperor we need to download this thread to a flash drive and blast it off into outer space as a journal of the USA's last days.

[TheLeviathan]

Of course at this stage, Bernie supporters and Trump supporters won't care, and they will just cry "media bias", but this won't fly with the undecided folks.

In fairness I think most candidates, when pressed for specifics, will flop but you're right that he should have better answers. I mean, he can't even confirm that what he's promising is even legal and indicates he never even bothered to check!

 

The foreign policy stuff wasn't much better.

[Brock Beauchamp]

This nomination process has been insane. Now Cruz is winning states and Sanders has won six of the last seven.

[Craig Arko]

 

This nomination process has been insane. Now Cruz is winning states and Sanders has won six of the last seven.

Maybe people are starting to pay attention.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Maybe people are starting to pay attention.

The Cruz thing makes sense. While I find the man despicable, he's more of a Republican - as sad as that is to say - than Trump.

 

But what is happening over in the blue aisle is crazy. Hillary all but had this thing wrapped up in a bow and now Sanders is making a run at it. Yeah, he still doesn't have much of a shot at winning this thing but Democrats are sending a pretty clear message to the party with this late run.

[Craig Arko]

 

The Cruz thing makes sense. While I find the man despicable, he's more of a Republican - as sad as that is to say - than Trump.

 

But what is happening over in the blue aisle is crazy. Hillary all but had this thing wrapped up in a bow and now Sanders is making a run at it. Yeah, he still doesn't have much of a shot at winning this thing but Democrats are sending a pretty clear message to the party with this late run.

From the Strib; based on the Wisconsin exit polls: Cruz wins on Trump fear; Sanders on excitement.

 

http://www.startribune.com/exit-poll-wisconsin-gop-voters-excited-scared-about-trump/374678691/

 

[Mike Sixel]

Oh, I'm not saying the past is better, I would never make that mistake. I was talking about civil rights, and "fight" against giving black people equal rights, and how that didn't work. This won't work, over time, either.....but man. Now we have the awful gamer gate people going after a game that dared to include a transgender person.....sigh. 

[Badsmerf]

Bernie still won't beat Clinton, but his success can't be overlooked. It continues to surprise me people are even still voting in the gop. Cruz is a terrible candidate and will get destroyed once people besides ultra Christian are paying attention. If i was Clinton, I'd prefer to run against Cruz. Trump wouldn't be too scary, but kasich beats her imo. Especially since he'll carry Ohio.

 

I listened to conservative radio in Kansas this week. Wow. There is not one shread of doubt that those talking heads are holding back rural communities and dedicated Christians. They are making politicizing issues that shouldn't be, and misleading a very gullible portion of our population. The gop should not be the default party for Christians. Just because they tell you they are, does not make it true.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Oh, I'm not saying the past is better, I would never make that mistake. I was talking about civil rights, and "fight" against giving black people equal rights, and how that didn't work. This won't work, over time, either.....but man. Now we have the awful gamer gate people going after a game that dared to include a transgender person.....sigh. 

But that's more noticeable today because there are actual defenders of transgender people. 30 years ago, no one attacked them because they were a societal afterthought; unworthy of scorn because so few cared about them, much less defended them.

 

This is actually a big reason why I ended up Libertarian for a long time; I was a staunch defender of gay rights in the mid-90s (several gay family members) when no one was in their corner. The Republicans were scared of them and the Democrats tolerated them a little while they passed anti-gay legislation hand-in-hand with the GOP. I chose Libertarianism largely because they were one of the few groups so disinterested in what gay people did in their private life that I latched onto the movement (and also because I had such a disdain for religion in general and wanted it out of my politics... but those two things were inextricably linked in my eyes).

 

When a group is so disenfranchised that they don't even deserve societal scorn, it's easy to forget just how bad things were. The fact things are "heating up" is actually a good sign, as it means real conflict is brewing as coalitions are formed and people begin an attempt to enfranchise these people.

 

On the other hand, you're not entirely wrong about the political climate today... It's definitely more toxic than it has been at any other point in my lifetime. But there's a lot of good mixed in there, too.

[Mike Sixel]

There is just so much fear and hatred, over nothing that matters. It's typical of those in power, to distract those who are not with things that don't matter, so that people don't pay attention to the things that do. And, for much of the GOP, it is working right now. People seem not to notice that their rights are being eroded, and that their money is all going to the wealthiest at a higher and higher velocity.

[nicksaviking]

 

But that's more noticeable today because there are actual defenders of transgender people. 30 years ago, no one attacked them because they were a societal afterthought; unworthy of scorn because so few cared about them, much less defended them.

 

On the other hand, you're not entirely wrong about the political climate today... It's definitely more toxic than it has been at any other point in my lifetime. But there's a lot of good mixed in there, too.

 

I think it's toxic because of the good that's mixed in. You're right, a lot of the fights look bad today simply because enough people didn't take the time to defend the neglected aspects of society the previous couple decades. I wasn't around in the 1960's, but history tells us there was a much larger awareness of social injustice, and history also tells us there was a much larger push back and violence. I wouldn't dare compare current people to the brave folks that marched on Selma, but today's climate doesn't seem new.

 

I mean Don't Ask Don't Tell was a fairly liberal idea just 20 years ago; it seems Draconian now. Social issues aren't advancing at the same rapid pace as our technology, but they are advancing pretty quickly compared to past drawn out issues. It's no wonder that those that don't feel comfortable with change are putting up a fight.

 

[DaveW]

 

This nomination process has been insane. Now Cruz is winning states and Sanders has won six of the last seven.

In regards to Sanders, all of this was pretty much a known/assumed thing several weeks ago, Sanders does very well in white states, even with his victory in Wisconsin he still lost the black vote by 40%.

 

The California and NY primaries are the largest/most important and those are the ones he will struggle in the most: (Most informed voters, highly diverse voters etc)

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

(Most informed voters, highly diverse voters etc)

Diverse, yes. Informed? Eh, you'll have a hell of a time convincing me NY or CA is more informed than MN or WA or one of several other states Sanders has taken with ease.

 

But the diversity thing is a huge issue for Sanders. I don't fully understand why it's an issue but it is.

[Squirrel]

Maybe people are starting to pay attention.

Four of the last six were caucus states. I don't really count those wins. And Hillary was never projected to win Washington or Wisconsin.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Four of the last six were caucus states. I don't really count those wins. And Hillary was never projected to win Washington or Wisconsin.

On the other side of the coin, Clinton's lead is pretty much built on states that have something approximating a zero chance of going blue in November (basically, the South).

 

I mean, I'm going to vote for whichever Dem wins because the GOP field is so horrific and scary but Clinton has her share of "questionable" delegate wins, just like Sanders.

[DaveW]

 

Diverse, yes. Informed? Eh, you'll have a hell of a time convincing me NY or CA is more informed than MN or WA or one of several other states Sanders has taken with ease.

 

But the diversity thing is a huge issue for Sanders. I don't fully understand why it's an issue but it is.

The diversity thing is a huge issue for Sanders because only now has he actually "cared" about the black vote/black people, the Clintons were helping out the minority communities/fighting on their behalves long before anyone knew who Bill and Hilary were. This goes back several decades at this point.

 

There are several good articles online that can explain it much better than I can.

 

The problem with Washington is that the majority of people who turned out to caucus were college students (i.e. people that have 6 hours free to do that stuff), and Washington is very, very white. (They do have a large Asian population, but Bernie does ok with that demo as well)

 

I think the CA/NY voters are the most informed in the country, because A. They deal with the most important cities in the country, both culturally-wise and economy wise. B. They are the two most diverse states but unlike a lot of other states with diversity, both are HUGE melting pots were people are forced to interact with numerous races, religions, backgrounds on a daily and hourly basis.

 

So basically CA/NY voters (LA/SF/NYC) have a better "grasp" of the US population as a whole and the challenges that everyone faces.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The diversity thing is a huge issue for Sanders because only now has he actually "cared" about the black vote/black people, the Clintons were helping out the minority communities/fighting on their behalves long before anyone knew who Bill and Hilary were. This goes back several decades at this point.

Do you realize Sanders was arrested at a Civil Rights protest in 1963, right?

 

I mean, I get you support Hillary - and that's completely fine, I understand why people support her - but Sanders was getting arrested at Civil Rights protests while Hillary was punching Republican ballots every November.

 

I'm not knocking Hillary for once being a Republican - it was a long time ago and shouldn't matter - but I think it's also unfair to knock Sanders for not doing enough for black people when he was protesting segregation in the 60s and has been pretty consistently in favor of equal rights across the board.