2016 Election Thread

[ashbury]

he's not going to scale back gay tights

Something I'll probably leave to others to keep an eye on.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I think the biggest issue I have seen is liberals claiming that anyone who voted for trump is a racist, bigot etc

Calling someone a racist is a very very very powerful thing. In fact in our society it is only trumped (no pun intended) by being called a rapist or pedofile.

Does trump have some disgusting, awful and racist fans/part of his base? Absolutely, 100% no doubt about it. Is part of his base uneducated and were duped into voting against their own self interests? Yup!

But to paint some broad brush that all 50 million people who voted for him are dumb and racist is incredibly naive, offensive and only furthers the divide. I'd argue that the majority of people who voted for him are neither "super dumb" or "racist" if I'm wrong then our world as a whole is pretty ****ed anyways.

Dave, are you feeling okay?

[jimmer]

 

You forgot:

Greedy
Self-absorbed
Myopic
And greedy

Ah, Breakfast Club reference.

[nicksaviking]

 

Hillary losing sucks for a lot of us. Welcome to the world of millions of largely mocked and ignored people that have been screaming for help for the last decade. Stop mocking them and thinking this is about race or gender or hate.

It's about change. So stop condescending their plight. Understand the desperation or risk this desperation continuing.

 

I'll admit that I have a hard time understanding their plight; not that I don't understand many are struggling, just that it's difficult to contextualize and I'm sorry for that. I'm in an area where unemployment is about 2% and has been for a decade. There are help wanted signs on every block, yet Trump still carried the day here.

 

I don't want anybody to struggle with food or housing or employment and I feel for those that do. I'll also admit that I feel more strongly for minorities with the same struggles than with white males as instinctively I probably think white males can easier change their situations, perhaps that's not true.

 

When it comes to the election, I understand that a lot of people viewed Clinton as the face of a system they don't like, I don't agree but I understand. What is hard to understand for me, and surely for other folks like me, Trump is the epitome of those who always benefit from the corrupt and inefficient system that they don't like. It's like everyone just decided to cut out the middle man and put the actual problem in charge.

[twinsnorth49]

 

To be clear, I think the Reps and Dems are two wings of the same bird driving this country to destruction... and everyone else perpetuates the problem by stereotyping their opponent without addressing the situations at hand.

 

Racism/sexism may be a problem, but that isn't what got Trump elected this week. As pointed out by others... he got elected in spite of these things. If people don't start looking at the 'why' of the problem, we will be looking at the same or an equally unpalatable candidate for the office in four years.

Sorry, I don't give America the credit for being smart enough to have made this about solving some kind of problem. The problem remains, it will remain, it will divide the country even further.

 

Voting for Trump is the ultimate cut off your nose to spite your face move, a vote for him is a vote for everything he stands for, which is ignorance and hate. A vote for him was another example of the me vs we attitude that is pervasive in the US.

 

Donald Trump is your president........Jesus H Christ man.

[twinsnorth49]

 

I agree the Democratic Party needs to change, but Bernie Sanders and socialism is not the change it needs... embracing socialism will only ensure that the GOP holds congress and the White House for the next 8+ years minimum. If you want socialism go move to a country that embraces it, and enjoy the 50% tax on your income and all the issues that come along with it.

Every country has issues, some larger than others. I pay a lot of income tax, it doesn't cause me much hardship and I'm fine paying it for some of the benefits it creates for more than just myself. It doesn't make me a socialist, not that being one is the horrible thing you seem to think it is. I'll take socialism over having the ass clown you just voted in.

 

 Also, 50% is as wild an exaggeration as saying everyone who voted for Trump is racist.

[DaveW]

Dave, are you feeling okay?

Yes, I unlike you am not freaking out that my chosen candidate lost. I unlike you are trying to come "together" with those who voted for trump, not mock and ridicule them.

[twinsnorth49]

 

No more being a trolling prick.

 

This was totally shocking, of course. There is an explanation out there . . . and it tries to square the hell up with the fact that 42% of women and 29% of Latinos voted for Trump. 60+ million people voted for this guy somehow. I am not going to sit here and call 60 million Americans racist, sexist, deplorables. God what a mistake. Anyway, let's say 20 million of them . . . actually are that. Give or take. I might be optimistic. Anyway, some 30-40 million people are just feeling simply screwed at life because of economic situations. A friend of mine predicted Michigan because of NAFTA NAFTA NAFTA, and there is a point there. The Democratic Party, in its pursuit of neoliberalism, has let millions of people go by the wayside. Or they at least haven't taken these people seriously. Liberalism broadly construed is totally failing institutionally. We provide only welfare for people out of middle class jobs. That is insane. Sanders captured that and appealed to these people as both someone who cared out the plight of working class and lower-middle class people struggling to get by in life. This Clintonite era is DONE. It is DONE. To be someone who does not realize that is to be a part of the problem. 

So now what? Well, these Trumpets are to be feared, but it is time for the Left as a whole to wake up and actually realize that Democracy is a verb and not a noun. It happened in 2008 and there has been nothing since then. The Democratic Party has actually faltered totally in the Obama era. This is a reality to be confronted.

 

The left is notorious for not caring about midterm elections and about local or state elections. THAT needs to end right now. But electoral reform is not all that is required. This is clearly a cultural battle. We need to educate, and this is not merely about actual professional educators. White people in these rust belt states honestly have no idea that they are more ****ed by Trump. They do not understand that. Furthermore, it is time to take over other things. Letters to the Editor, letters to state congressman, state senators, U.S. congressman, U.S senators, etc. Petition signing for various causes. Forming lobbying groups that share expenses for trips to your capitol or the capitol. Funding non-governmental organizations that support the rights of GLBTQ people, immigrants, Muslims, African Americans, Latinos, and women. And men, for that matter. BUY that damn Wellstone book on how to run progressives and win. 20 bucks on Amazon. Run for office. Get others to run. No more uncontested republican races ever again at any level, etc. etc. 

 

IF these evil policies start to come forward .. . that is the time to amp it all up and protest vehemently.

 

The Left must be galvanized by this toward unification to take the entire culture back. 

That sounds like an awful lot of work, I doubt most are up to it, that would be someone else's job, unless it pays really well, then you might find some interest.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Really?  Just under 130 million votes were cast with 120 million or so going to two candidates that most people hated in some capacity, including I might add, the people that voted for them. Civilized people would realize that neither were good options and would have voted for someone else.  Civilized people would have understood that voting for a **** candidate because their not a ****ier candidate still leaves you with one really big pile of steaming you know what.

 

I really really really really really wish people understood just how bad a candidate HRC really was, because the reaction here shows a level of cluelessness that I cannot put into words. Bernie Sanders would have mopped the floor with Trump, just as much as Ron Paul could have done so with Obama four years ago. 

 

If the system wasn't rigged, Garry Johnson or Jill Stein or a half dozen others that didn't even appear on the ballots would have destroyed them both, but since electioneering is legal in this country, they got pushed aside... all in the name of a ludicrous concept that makes zero logical sense other than to perpetuate the fraud that we call Democrats and Republicans. 

 

Go ahead, call it civilized so you can sleep well at night. But that isn't the right term that defines this mess, and you know it.  That's why Trump is President right now. It's why Obama became President 8 years ago, and it is why nothing is going to change until real change starts to happen.

 

The system won on Tuesday.  It won because just about everyone in this country (including those that didn't vote) failed to recognize that they are a part of the problem.

 

Jill Stein is a science, Vaccine denying idiot. She wasn't winning town crier, let alone president.

 

Gary Johnson just came across as an empty headed do nothing guy, with literally no plan for foreign policy at all, and who's idea of freedom is no taxes to fix our crumbling infrastructure.

 

There were terrible candidates. Terrible.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Two days removed and condescending, elitist liberals still can't figure this out.

30% of his own voters didn't like him. Huge chunks of voters across the rust belt flipped from Obama voters to Trump voters. Millions of left voters the last eight years stayed home. Women and Latinos voted for Trump at rates consistent with past candidates, unshaken by his rhetoric. The data says all this asinine talk about who Trump voters are is a false narrative liberals are wrapping themselves in so they don't have to face the truth of their own failures.

So why are perfectly decent Americans of all walks voting for Trump? Because they are sick of an elitist system that condescendingly mocks them and their plight. They are largely aware Trump does nothing for them and they don't care.

What has the left ever done but mock them? Who gives a rip about them in either major party?

Hillary losing sucks for a lot of us. Welcome to the world of millions of largely mocked and ignored people that have been screaming for help for the last decade. Stop mocking them and thinking this is about race or gender or hate.

It's about change. So stop condescending their plight. Understand the desperation or risk this desperation continuing.

 

yet they voted for the same governors, state houses, and congress.

 

So, ya, they voted in the same exact system, except now there are no checks on it.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think the biggest issue I have seen is liberals claiming that anyone who voted for trump is a racist, bigot etc

Calling someone a racist is a very very very powerful thing. In fact in our society it is only trumped (no pun intended) by being called a rapist or pedofile.

Does trump have some disgusting, awful and racist fans/part of his base? Absolutely, 100% no doubt about it. Is part of his base uneducated and were duped into voting against their own self interests? Yup!

But to paint some broad brush that all 50 million people who voted for him are dumb and racist is incredibly naive, offensive and only furthers the divide. I'd argue that the majority of people who voted for him are neither "super dumb" or "racist" if I'm wrong then our world as a whole is pretty ****ed anyways.

 

Here is a list people saying everyone is a racist:

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yes, I unlike you am not freaking out that my chosen candidate lost. I unlike you are trying to come "together" with those who voted for trump, not mock and ridicule them.

 

to what end? cutting taxes and creating huge deficitis? Gutting the EPA (a climate change denier is in charge of the transition)? Gutting the interior department (Koch brothers crony in charge of the transition)? 

 

To what end are you working, with people that aren't interested at all in a better USA, but a USA even more controlled by the powerful? Because that's what the GOP wants. 

 

I'm genuinely curious, putting aside Trump....how do you expect an unfettered GOP to act?

[stringer bell]

I am stunned that enough people voted for Trump. That said, there is a disconnect between the masses and the parties that greatly favors Republicans somehow. They have managed to paint Democrats as the party of the government despite the fact that they have control of everything except the presidency and in two-plus months they will have that.

 

There is an undercurrent in the anti-government stance that blames others--non-whites, immigrants, gays etc. for what is wrong. I have thought the discontented should buck up and realize they don't have it too bad, but it hasn't happened, at least in elections.

 

Democrats have become the party of welfare, not the working person and it is killing them. I am 99.9% certain that Trump and the Republicans will do nothing to truly help this segment's lot, but until Democrats can get a good share of their votes, they are going to keep losing.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Yes, I unlike you am not freaking out that my chosen candidate lost. I unlike you are trying to come "together" with those who voted for trump, not mock and ridicule them.

Uh huh. So the guy who spent two months railing on and making fun of Bernie supporters is now trying to come together.

 

BTW, notice how quiet I've been about the protesting and other Trump-related backlash. I don't support protesting the man. I think it's polarizing and, frankly, stupid.

 

But I do support protesting actions taken by the man (and he hasn't done anything yet). I'm cautiously giving Trump and his supporters slack with the full knowledge they're probably going to hang themselves in short order. I wish that wasn't the case but given the man's temperament and past behavior, I believe it's the most likely outcome.

[DaveW]

 

to what end? cutting taxes and creating huge deficitis? Gutting the EPA (a climate change denier is in charge of the transition)? Gutting the interior department (Koch brothers crony in charge of the transition)? 

 

To what end are you working, with people that aren't interested at all in a better USA, but a USA even more controlled by the powerful? Because that's what the GOP wants. 

 

I'm genuinely curious, putting aside Trump....how do you expect an unfettered GOP to act?

Clean energy/conservation is already going to continue due to market factors alone, the EPA stuff sucks, no doubt, but I have faith that hopefully it doesn't do too much damage.

I would like the GOP to actually act on the "smaller" govt bit that they have talked about for decades, time to get rid of useless govt run agencies outright, or at least curb there ridiculous spending:

USPS
USDA
IRS

I would like Trump to do everything he can to enact term limits on house and senate members, I think career politicians are some of the worst things to happen to this country, on BOTH sides of the aisle.

I would like the GOP to actually have the balls to pass legislation that would benefit the US moreso in our trade with China.

I would very much like the new 3 tier tax code, which also should help create more small businesses across the US.

Does the GOP have a lot of pitfalls? Absolutely, but I do see a few potential positives it things break right.

Basically, I would much rather see the money go back into the hands of some of the people, rather then into bloated non working govt agencies.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

It'd be a lot easier to tolerate the modern GOP if they were actual fiscal conservatives instead of just claiming that's what they are.

 

I think all of us want smaller, smarter government in some capacity. Unfortunately, the GOP hasn't actually assembled a plan to make that happen, they just squawk and try to cut programs they don't like while bloating the ones they do.

 

I sincerely hope Trump is different in that regard but I'm not holding my breath.

[DaveW]

 

Uh huh. So the guy who spent two months railing on and making fun of Bernie supporters is now trying to come together.

BTW, notice how quiet I've been about the protesting and other Trump-related backlash. I don't support protesting the man. I think it's polarizing and, frankly, stupid.

But I do support protesting actions taken by the man (and he hasn't done anything yet). I'm cautiously giving Trump and his supporters slack with the full knowledge they're probably going to hang themselves in short order. I wish that wasn't the case but given the man's temperament and past behavior, I believe it's the most likely outcome.

Bernie supporters were and continue to be the problem:

 

- They were the mostly uniformed who were protesting against Hillary, calling for her to be in prison and ultimately sat out this election because Bernie didn't get the nomination.

-They are the ones protesting the election outcome, and in many cases are starting "riots"

-Because they are uninformed and reek of elitism, they have no desire to hold any sort of meaningful conversation, they have been and continue to be a Bernie or Bust crowd, and would rather watch the world burn then admit that the other side might not all be the devil 100% themselves.

-Agreed on the protesting part of your statement, by all means protest each and every "real decision" he makes that is ****ty. But protesting now non stop just because he won only furthers the divide in this country. 

Basically, what's done is done, you can go about it two different ways as a liberal:

-Further your hatred of the right, and just protest/refuse to listen to opposing arguments

or

-Hope for the best, but be ready to act if Trump/GOP starts doing some real crappy things: (The Wall, Muslim ban, Gay Rights, Abortion, Womens rights, ending welfare/food stamps etc) Maybe I'm just an optimist, but I don't think Trump ultimately will do anything about any of those topics. Pence on the other hand.....

Which brings me to my next point:

It could always be worst. 

At least we don't have Cruz or Pence as POTUS.

Plus if the GOP screws things up, then the Dems take back the house and senate in 2 years, and the white house in 4.

[DaveW]

 

It'd be a lot easier to tolerate the modern GOP if they were actual fiscal conservatives instead of just claiming that's what they are.

I think all of us want smaller, smarter government in some capacity. Unfortunately, the GOP hasn't actually assembled a plan to make that happen, they just squawk and try to cut programs they don't like while bloating the ones they do.

I sincerely hope Trump is different in that regard but I'm not holding my breath.

I actually think Trump will be different in that regard. I think he realizes that he actually has a shot to reduce govt and reduce wasteful spending, because he is as outsider as they come he really doesn't care what the rest of the GOP has to say anyways.

[DaveW]

Trump was speaking pretty highly of Obama yesterday, wouldn't it be hilarious if Trump nominated Obama for the SCOTUS?

[Mike Sixel]

 

I actually think Trump will be different in that regard. I think he realizes that he actually has a shot to reduce govt and reduce wasteful spending, because he is as outsider as they come he really doesn't care what the rest of the GOP has to say anyways.

 

Congress passes tax and spending, not POTUS......it almost doesn't matter what POTUS wants, as we've seen for the last 6 years...

[DaveW]

 

Congress passes tax and spending, not POTUS......it almost doesn't matter what POTUS wants, as we've seen for the last 6 years...

Well that's because they blocked everything Obama was trying to do, which is COMPLETE BS by the way.

That's the other thing at play as well, I'm much more concerned about a GOP house of rep then Trump as Pres.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Well that's because they blocked everything Obama was trying to do, which is COMPLETE BS by the way.

That's the other thing at play as well, I'm much more concerned about a GOP house of rep then Trump as Pres.

 

As am I. I am much more worried about an unfettered GOP than Trump. Other than him putting us in another war....my biggest concern is that he will enable the GOP to do what they want. Most of which is just awful long term.

[Craig Arko]

 

As am I. I am much more worried about an unfettered GOP than Trump. Other than him putting us in another war....my biggest concern is that he will enable the GOP to do what they want. Most of which is just awful long term.

SCOTUS, folks. He may be appointing as many as 3 Justices during a four year term. That could mess things up for the next 30 years or more.

 

I'll be pushing up daisies by then but some of you have kids and grandkids to consider.

[DaveW]

 

SCOTUS, folks. He may be appointing as many as 3 Justices during a four year term. That could mess things up for the next 30 years or more.

 

I'll be pushing up daisies by then but some of you have kids and grandkids to consider.

On the flip side, Trump has been a Dem for decades longer than he has been a Republican, he is also pretty socially liberal at times, hopefully he only fills ONE seat as well.

[Shane Wahl]

 

I agree the Democratic Party needs to change, but Bernie Sanders and socialism is not the change it needs... embracing socialism will only ensure that the GOP holds congress and the White House for the next 8+ years minimum. If you want socialism go move to a country that embraces it, and enjoy the 50% tax on your income and all the issues that come along with it.

 

Bernie Sanders is not a socialist.

[Shane Wahl]

 

Bernie wouldn't have stood a chance. At least with trump my taxes and a good number of folks are going to go down, with Bernie the economy would have instantly crashed and my taxes would have went UP to forgive a bunch of lazy idiots student loans and other handouts to people who don't need them.

(For the record I am a huge fan of welfare, Medicare, food stamps, financial aid to poor people etc)

 

Bernie Sanders would have won. Enthusiasm, appeal to rural whites, etc. You are grossly mischaracterizing his views here. Grossly.

[Shane Wahl]

 

Two days removed and condescending, elitist liberals still can't figure this out.

30% of his own voters didn't like him. Huge chunks of voters across the rust belt flipped from Obama voters to Trump voters. Millions of left voters the last eight years stayed home. Women and Latinos voted for Trump at rates consistent with past candidates, unshaken by his rhetoric. The data says all this asinine talk about who Trump voters are is a false narrative liberals are wrapping themselves in so they don't have to face the truth of their own failures.

So why are perfectly decent Americans of all walks voting for Trump? Because they are sick of an elitist system that condescendingly mocks them and their plight. They are largely aware Trump does nothing for them and they don't care.

What has the left ever done but mock them? Who gives a rip about them in either major party?

Hillary losing sucks for a lot of us. Welcome to the world of millions of largely mocked and ignored people that have been screaming for help for the last decade. Stop mocking them and thinking this is about race or gender or hate.

It's about change. So stop condescending their plight. Understand the desperation or risk this desperation continuing.

 

good god thank you.

[TheLeviathan]

yet they voted for the same governors, state houses, and congress.

 

So, ya, they voted in the same exact system, except now there are no checks on it.

Protests aren't designed to create a plan, just to express outrage. Quit looking at it as a plan and see it for what it is.

 

If you keep missing the outcry you miss the point.

[Shane Wahl]

Ed Rendell claims he implored the Clinton campaign to target rural Pennsylvania and not just Pittsburgh and Philly. He said that "Brooklyn wanted no part of that."

[Mike Sixel]

 

Protests aren't designed to create a plan, just to express outrage. Quit looking at it as a plan and see it for what it is.

If you keep missing the outcry you miss the point.

 

I see the point....they are going to be very unhappy they didn't actually make the point they thought they were making, imo.

 

It appears much of Trump's team is already filled with insiders....so, so far, the symbolism isn't working out in execution.