Valencia, Morneau LH/RH splits and 1st base

[DPJ]

Platooning him with a 14 million dollar ex MVP is about as crazy as it gets no matter what the splits say.

So let Morneau continue to fail away against LHP instead of calling up an enteral option that can cheaply fill a role on this team?

 

WHy don't you just say you don't like Valencia and don't wanna see him called back up?

[DaveW]

So let Morneau continue to fail away against LHP instead of calling up an enteral option that can cheaply fill a role on this team?

 

WHy don't you just say you don't like Valencia and don't wanna see him called back up?

I'd prefer Morneau takes this year to re-learn to hit lefties or whatever he needs to do to be ready for 2013.

[CDog]

Been around the game for awhile. I recognize it when I see it.

 

Jeez that sounded egotistical... Didn't mean to sound that way.

 

Defensively... Let's just say... There was no dirt on his uniform. Watched him make routine boots too many times because he wasn't engaged enough to move his feet a couple of steps. That's taking your job for granted. Especially with your boss named Ron Gardenhire.

 

Offensively a year straight of chasing the outside pitch without fixing it. If you don't stop swinging at that. The pitchers will keep throwing it. If you do make contact it's a weak grounder or pop up everytime. After awhile it's clear... The kid isn't attempting to adjust and doing so without consequence. He's a good hitter. The MLB fastball wasn't too much for him. The mental part is.

Not being successful at making adjustments isn't necessarily because of being unwilling to make them. Failing isn't necessarily the result of not caring. And not caring isn't even the same as taking for granted. I just think it's a pretty big leap to put that specific mentality on someone from the amount of observation we're able to do.

[Curt]

The Twins said... They would rather have nobody play 3B than trot Velencia out there again. If this doesn't speak loudly to the observing fan. I don't know what will.

 

 

Don't confuse my saying that the Twins' should exploit the talent that Valencia has with being a fan of his. I'm not. That the Twins' don't think much of him doesn't impress me at all.

 

Platooning him with a 14 million dollar ex MVP is about as crazy as it gets no matter what the splits say.

 

The only thing I agree with is "ex MVP."

 

He's the closest thing we have to a future 1B or DH in Minnesota.

 

Now you start to see why what the Twins' think doesn't impress me.

 

Send him Down in the next 30 seconds or so please!

 

Finally, something we agree on.

[DPJ]

I'd prefer Morneau takes this year to re-learn to hit lefties or whatever he needs to do to be ready for 2013.

Ready for 2013, what's happening in 2013?

[twinscowboysbulls]

Who is Danny Valencia?

[snepp]

Who is Danny Valencia?

Maybe you'd recognize him as Danny Valenshia.

[Riverbrian]

So let Morneau continue to fail away against LHP instead of calling up an enteral option that can cheaply fill a role on this team?

 

WHy don't you just say you don't like Valencia and don't wanna see him called back up?

 

Here is what everyone has to come to grips with. If Morneau is not traded at the deadline or off season. He is our starting 1B in 2013. He can flail or fail or choose to bunt baseballs with his helmet or hit majestic home runs 3 times every week for the rest of 2012. If he is not traded... He will be our starting 1B. No Splits will change that. Only injury or trade will change that. If Morneau is going to be our starting 1B in 2013... AND he will be... You let him work things out in 2012 and see if he can get back to pre-concussion territory. For clarification. I'm hopeful that the Twins move Morneau so a younger player can play 1B. Until that happens let's protect the investment.

 

On the subject of Velencia... Yeah... I'm not a fan... I don't like watching professional players half ass it. He deserved his demotion... However, I'm not giving up on him. I hope he figures it out in Rochester... I really do. He hasn't yet. Maybe some day.

 

Not being successful at making adjustments isn't necessarily because of being unwilling to make them. Failing isn't necessarily the result of not caring. And not caring isn't even the same as taking for granted. I just think it's a pretty big leap to put that specific mentality on someone from the amount of observation we're able to do.

 

I won't dispute this Cdog. I won't claim to have any knowledge of what he does in the clubhouse... How he responds to coaching. What he works on or doesn't work on. I just know that I grew increasingly frustrated as 2011 went on... Watching him routinely reach for grounders when a simple two step move would get him centered. 2012 was more of the same. I've coached many kids with the same lead feet. It's focus and the ability to maintain it and I've seen the same kids who play that way in the field are typically the same kids who can't work the kinks out of hitches at the plate or laying off pitches they can't do anything with. Those same kids will also be disapointed that things are not going their way and will tell you that performing well is important to them but yet...

 

Anyway, yeah... I took that leap and I could be wrong. Something happened... He was bounced from the Majors without a replacement for him. Message on something from someone has been sent. I think my guess is somewhat educated but it's just a guess.

 

Don't confuse my saying that the Twins' should exploit the talent that Valencia has with being a fan of his. I'm not. That the Twins' don't think much of him doesn't impress me at all.

 

The only thing I agree with is "ex MVP."

 

 

 

Now you start to see why what the Twins' think doesn't impress me.

 

 

 

Finally, something we agree on.

 

 

I'm not confusing your convictions for Velencia Love. I gotta a pretty good grey area detector. I've said this before... Live by the stats... Die by the stats. Baseball is so much more. I read the stats and I understand the stats and I think stats have their place but Baseball is so much more.

Can anyone please explain Trevor Plouffe this past month with past metrics. You can't...

Explain Adrian Gonzalez this year. You can't...

Pick a player any player and a majority of them have OPS+ numbers that can bounce around to the point of almost uselessness and nearly everyone who quotes splits or stats like gospel can't explain the data swings from Month to Month or Year to Year. Baseball is so much more. .

 

The discussion isn't Velencia in my mind... I could care less about Danny and the baseball world feels the same way. Call him up... I don't care... To me this issue is about Morneau... Is it possible that he's done and never coming back. YES... Is it too soon to make that call... YES... Why do I feel this way... Because OPS+ Numbers do bounce around like a pinball from month to month and year to year.

 

I love this site and I love these discussions... Just read the disagreements between multiple people on this site and try to put it in the context of a GM or Manager. Almost every thread has disagreements and varied opinions. Some people want Terry Ryan fired... Some are smiling ear to ear over his return. Some People Want Bill Smith hung by his toenails and dipped slowly into pirahna infested waters and some think he was handed a bum situation. Some people want Gardy fired and some want him over for dinner.

 

Just imagine... How as a GM... You have to block all that out and keep your focus on getting better according to your gameplan. GM's are not going to bench Morneau and his contract, just like GM's are not going to bench Soriano in Chicago or Youkillis in Boston. The Minute they do... They just pissed the money away. You can disrespect the Twins organization all you want. The Truth is... The Twins are pretty much like the other ones.

 

Morneau will be traded or he's starting for us in 2012. It's an investment and it's a large one. You work with it.

[Shane Wahl]

Can everyone start spelling Twins players' names right?

[Shane Wahl]

I guess I just don't understand the expectations from Morneau right now. It feels like reality must be faced at some point. If he can be traded to some sucker team this year, that's fine, but if one thinks playing him against lefties and batting terribly is the way to increase his value, one is nuts. A proper use of Morneau right now and he is likely hitting .250 and who knows how other numbers are affected by time off. I have not looked at his days off and if they were against righties or lefties at all, but I imagine some have been against right-handed pitching since Gardenhire tends to not care about such things.

[PseudoSABR]

Can everyone start spelling Twins players' names right?

I think RP should institute a word filter that corrects all the possible misspellings of all the Twins players to their correct spellings. It may take some time, but it'd take the heavy weight of spelling away from the heathens.

[PseudoSABR]

Parmelee is still 24 years old. After struggling in AA at 22 years old, he's starting to hit for more power again. In a brief AAA stint this season, he was raking. He's a good OBP guy with good patience. If he develops even middling power to go with it, he might be a viable option at first.

 

Again, he's only 24. If it comes down to a 24 year old who needs repetition and seasoning versus a 28 year old miscreant, you choose to give the ABs to the young guy with upside. No one is saying Parmelee is going to take over the world, we're simply saying that he deserves a chance to improve by playing every day in AAA. If he falls on his face, so be it... But at least you'll know what you have in the kid.

Right. There was also word that he was remaking his swing over past several years, I'm not sure we really know what Parmelee's ceiling or floor is because of that...

[70charger]

I guess I just don't understand the expectations from Morneau right now. It feels like reality must be faced at some point. If he can be traded to some sucker team this year, that's fine, but if one thinks playing him against lefties and batting terribly is the way to increase his value, one is nuts. A proper use of Morneau right now and he is likely hitting .250 and who knows how other numbers are affected by time off. I have not looked at his days off and if they were against righties or lefties at all, but I imagine some have been against right-handed pitching since Gardenhire tends to not care about such things.

Yep. And that point isn't a couple months into Morneau's first season back from a 2 year layoff.

 

It seems that you don't believe that Morneau can ever hit lefties again. Why? I saw one of the best hitters in the game pre-2011 in Justin Morneau. Isn't it a far more reasonable assumption that he can work on his swing against lefties and figure out what he lost during his time off than that he will simply never be good against lefties again? Yes, he just looks confused out there against lefties so far this year, and yes he should be getting more days off, especially timed against certain pitchers. But platooning him? No way.

[twinsnorth49]

Yep. And that point isn't a couple months into Morneau's first season back from a 2 year layoff.

 

It seems that you don't believe that Morneau can ever hit lefties again. Why? I saw one of the best hitters in the game pre-2011 in Justin Morneau. Isn't it a far more reasonable assumption that he can work on his swing against lefties and figure out what he lost during his time off than that he will simply never be good against lefties again? Yes, he just looks confused out there against lefties so far this year, and yes he should be getting more days off, especially timed against certain pitchers. But platooning him? No way.

Yeah, I don't get the never will hit lefties again sentiment either, especially considering the time off he has had and the fact he was all-league just before that. His timing is off, his pitch selection is off which is exacerbated by him rarely getting into good hitting counts, he's always behind and starts chasing high fastballs and sliders. To think he can't sort it out is confusing, his success against RHP is proof he can still catch up with any pitch and work a count, I'd bet on him doing it than not.

[Nick Nelson]

Morneau strikes me as a master of making adjustments. When he first came into the league, he was awful against lefties (.201 AVG in '05)... a few years later, he was beyond respectable against them (.284 AVG in '08). When he first came into the league, he was considered a defensive liability... a few years later he was one of the finer defensive first basemen in the league. From 2006 to 2010, opposing pitchers constantly tried to figure him out and he kept on beating their adjustments. He was one of the most consistent power hitters in the AL during that span.

 

Yes, Morneau is a mess against southpaws right now and slumping in general. But I'm willing to believe that he can ultimately make the adjustments to get back on track. Assuming he's healthy. Of course that's no easy assumption.

[Shane Wahl]

In deference to vast majority judgment, I will let this go away. I will let the sub .400 OPS of Justin Morneau against lefties wander away into the stratosphere of Danny Valencia hatred (it is VALENCIA-that is how you spell it). I will let 2010 and 2011 concussions to have never happened. OOh, and I will say "who needs wrists when swinging a bat."

 

Let's watch Morneau's trade value RISE as he continues to suck ROYALLY against lefties!!!!!

[Brock Beauchamp]

into the stratosphere of Danny Valencia hatred (it is VALENCIA-that is how you spell it).

For the hell of it, I just checked this thread. Valencia was spelled correctly every time except once, when snepp intentionally mis-spelled it to poke fun of Bert's inability to pronounce his name correctly.

[diehardtwinsfan]

In deference to vast majority judgment, I will let this go away. I will let the sub .400 OPS of Justin Morneau against lefties wander away into the stratosphere of Danny Valencia hatred (it is VALENCIA-that is how you spell it). I will let 2010 and 2011 concussions to have never happened. OOh, and I will say "who needs wrists when swinging a bat."

 

Let's watch Morneau's trade value RISE as he continues to suck ROYALLY against lefties!!!!!

Do you really think other GMs are foolish enough to not notice that Justin is no longer playing against lefties and will therefore overpay?

 

Face the facts, we won't be getting much if anything for Morneau at this trade deadline. This is due to his salary and having a year and a half yet to play. You may as well be patient with him, because that is the ONLY opportunity this team has to get something decent from him... We don't need another #5 pitcher upside guy.

[Riverbrian]

For the hell of it, I just checked this thread. Valencia was spelled correctly every time except once, when snepp intentionally mis-spelled it to poke fun of Bert's inability to pronounce his name correctly.

Actually, I spelled it wrong a bunch of times.

 

I was too lazy to move two steps to my left and get centered on his spelling. I admit it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Actually, I spelled it wrong a bunch of times.

 

I was too lazy to move two steps to my left and get centered on his spelling. I admit it.

Huh. Well, I missed the errors so they must not have been too egregious.

 

edit: Hah, I searched via find and typed "val". I didn't expect anyone to get the second letter wrong.

[twinsnorth49]

In deference to vast majority judgment, I will let this go away. I will let the sub .400 OPS of Justin Morneau against lefties wander away into the stratosphere of Danny Valencia hatred (it is VALENCIA-that is how you spell it). I will let 2010 and 2011 concussions to have never happened. OOh, and I will say "who needs wrists when swinging a bat."

 

Let's watch Morneau's trade value RISE as he continues to suck ROYALLY against lefties!!!!!

Do his wrists suddenly hurt against lefties? They seem to work fine against righties. What a strange injury.

[twinscowboysbulls]

Maybe you'd recognize him as Danny Valenshia.

Nope, not ringing any bells.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

I like the suggestions merely because regular AAA ABs are better than spot starts in the MLB. It's better to give the important ABs to someone who may actually have a future in the organization (Parmelee) than someone who doesn't (Valencia). I also think Plouffe could use an occasional break at 3B and I don't think Carroll is really a good substitute at the corner. Don't get me wrong, a platoon at first is a good idea for Danny, but there are bigger reasons leading to exactly why he should be promoted.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I like the suggestions merely because regular AAA ABs are better than spot starts in the MLB. It's better to give the important ABs to someone who may actually have a future in the organization (Parmelee) than someone who doesn't (Valencia). I also think Plouffe could use an occasional break at 3B and I don't think Carroll is really a good substitute at the corner. Don't get me wrong, a platoon at first is a good idea for Danny, but there are bigger reasons leading to exactly why he should be promoted.

 

Danny hit at every level of the minors and continued to do so in his first year in the bigs... His sophomore season was "unlucky" as well. I'm not sure anyone should be giving up on him as he could be cheap/average production in the linup for a few years if he adjusts and figures things out. I have no problems with him playing every day in AAA if he won't do it in ML... and with Parmalee, he's a better prospect. I don't care where he's playing, but he should be doing it every day.