Valencia, Morneau LH/RH splits and 1st base

[DPJ]

What he said, plus why waste Valencia now hitting against lefties when there still might be hope he becomes a more complete player down in Rochester. I agree with the Parmelee sentiment though.

Valencia is what 27-28 years old, he's not some kid who's still got some upside. He's not a everyday MLB player, but that doesn't mean he couldn't havea nice platoon role at 3B, 1B and maybe even fake his way on the corner outfields spot.

[Yoshii]

Quote: kirbyelway 27757:I'd rather have a bad Morneau than a good Valencia.

 

+1

[Brock Beauchamp]

He's "only" 31 and returning from a career-threatening concussion (and a whole host of other injuries). That is what you should have stated. Now read that out loud and ask yourself if that is a player in his "prime."

 

He also didn't "thump his noggin." He had his who the hell knows Nth concussion . . . then he re-aggravated that diving for a ball last year. One more concussion and it is over.

I didn't guarantee health for the rest of his career, I merely said that if he's healthy, he's still in his prime years. Can he stay healthy? I have no idea but if his concussion symptoms are truly behind him, that's a huge step in the right direction. Before the concussion, he had one back injury that knocked him out of the final 25 games of 2009. Before that point, he was a rock at first. As for post-concussion injuries, it's hard to say... Frustration and bad play could have been just as responsible for those "injuries" as actual physical ailments.

[snepp]

Valencia is what 27-28 years old, he's not some kid who's still got some upside. He's not a everyday MLB player, but that doesn't mean he couldn't havea nice platoon role at 3B, 1B and maybe even fake his way on the corner outfields spot.

Pretty much, get what value out of him while you can, the chances are pretty good there isn't a huge future ahead of him.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Pretty much, get what value out of him while you can, the chances are pretty good there isn't a huge future ahead of him.

Yeah, if you want to bet on the future of Valencia or Parmelee, you take Parmelee every time. That's why he should be in Rochester. Nobody should care if Valencia is wasting service time on the bench.

[twinsnorth49]

Yeah, if you want to bet on the future of Valencia or Parmelee, you take Parmelee every time. That's why he should be in Rochester. Nobody should care if Valencia is wasting service time on the bench.

Well, you're right about that and I don't care, would definitely take Parm every time.

[Shane Wahl]

Overstated, lots of top athletes have come back just fine from concussions and played well. I didn't say he was in his prime but right now he is taking the field almost everyday, playing it just fine, hitting and slugging very well against righties and waiting to get his s**t together against lefties. My money is on him doing it based on his track record, which is one hell of a lot better track record than Danny Valencia.

What part is overstated? Are people forgetting that prior to the beginning of this season, there were many of us who thought he might never really play again, or else something horrible will happen again soon. People also seem to forget the other injuries besides the concussions. And I suspect something else is bothering him right now.

[Huskerboy]

Like the idea. If you can't get rid of Morneau ( I do not believe M is capable of retruning to form. the old Justin is gone and not likely to return) and his huge salary at least we could get better production against lefties into the line up. Let's Parmelee go back where he belongs.

[Winston Smith]

OK parmelee is doing nothing on the roster. Sitting on the bench does him no good or the team any good. Bringing up Valencia does make sense becasue he fits what they need better. I would think that he should play 3rd on the days a lefty is pitching and Plouffe can play first, however. Giving Morneau a day off now and then against a lefty is logical and having his bat on the bench for later in the game is a big plus. It also wouldn't be a bad thing to have Valencia on the bench agaist a lefty reliever late in a game. It would appear that Valencia isn't going to fit in the Twins future so getting him some at bats where he could succeed might raise his trade value from the now broken bat level.

[DaveW]

Also, players in their "prime" do not post .375ish OPS against any-handed pitchers in the past 165+ plate appearances against them.

Are you truly this dense? Do you understand why exactly Morneau struggled mightily last year and has been less than perfect this year?

[Brock Beauchamp]

It would appear that Valencia isn't going to fit in the Twins future so getting him some at bats where he could succeed might raise his trade value from the now broken bat level.

Unless Valencia turns it around completely (and thereby makes himself valuable to the Twins in other ways), his trade value is nothing. If he's going to be an asset moving forward, it's probably going to be as a right-handed platoon bat.

[DaveW]

OK parmelee is doing nothing on the roster. Sitting on the bench does him no good or the team any good. Bringing up Valencia does make sense becasue he fits what they need better. I would think that he should play 3rd on the days a lefty is pitching and Plouffe can play first, however. Giving Morneau a day off now and then against a lefty is logical and having his bat on the bench for later in the game is a big plus. It also wouldn't be a bad thing to have Valencia on the bench agaist a lefty reliever late in a game. It would appear that Valencia isn't going to fit in the Twins future so getting him some at bats where he could succeed might raise his trade value from the now broken bat level.

Others would argue that Valencia needs to be playing every day in the AAA for him to continue to improve his hitting and fielding. I just think if you want a lefty masher to play 1-2 times a week you can do a lot better then a Danny Valencia.

 

Giving Morneau a day or two off from time to time against tough lefties is one thing, its entirely another thing to go full platoon on him, I do not endorse the 2nd and think the first is the smart way to go.

[snepp]

Unless Valencia turns it around completely (and thereby makes himself valuable to the Twins in other ways)

Naked batting practice guy?

[snepp]

Others would argue that Valencia needs to be playing every day in the AAA for him to continue to improve his hitting and fielding. I just think if you want a lefty masher to play 1-2 times a week you can do a lot better then a Danny Valencia.

 

Giving Morneau a day or two off from time to time against tough lefties is one thing, its entirely another thing to go full platoon on him, I do not endorse the 2nd and think the first is the smart way to go.

Is there a better option right now? There's nothing stopping you from sending him back down later when/if one becomes available. And as DPJ pointed out, he's not some young kid anymore, the amount of improvement is likely to be very minimal, almost certainly less than the improvement you would hope to expect from Parmelee.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Naked batting practice guy?

 

Must... Post... Ten... Characters...

[Ultima Ratio]

Naked batting practice guy?

Is this a Mike Redmond reference?

[DaveW]

Is there a better option right now? There's nothing stopping you from sending him back down later when/if one becomes available. And as DPJ pointed out, he's not some young kid anymore, the amount of improvement is likely to be very minimal, almost certainly less than the improvement you would hope to expect from Parmelee.

Then bring him up to rot on the bench, he still isn't good enough to be taking at bats from Morneau on a full time platoon level. It's way to early to take Morneau out of the lineup 2 or so days a week.

[snepp]

As per my previous posts, I never advocated a full platoon, merely that having Valencia on the bench getting the occasional at-bat against lefties makes considerably more sense than Parmelee rotting on the bench doing absolutely nothing.

 

 

Basically it boils down to this for me.

 

Parmelee potential future + not rotting + getting full-time ab's in AAA >>>>> Valencia potential future + rotting + getting some ab's vs lefties

[DaveW]

As per my previous posts, I never advocated a full platoon, merely that having Valencia on the bench getting the occasional at-bat against lefties makes considerably more sense than Parmelee rotting on the bench doing absolutely nothing.

Yeah, but I didn't think that was the topic at hand, and I don't think anyone would disagree with you. I forgot Parmelee was even on the roster to be honest, he gets zero playing time.

[Brock Beauchamp]

As per my previous posts, I never advocated a full platoon, merely that having Valencia on the bench getting the occasional at-bat against lefties makes considerably more sense than Parmelee rotting on the bench doing absolutely nothing.

Ditto. Morneau has to sit occasionally, as does Plouffe. Parmelee is not helping the team by sitting on the bench; Valencia may as well get those at-bats. I'm not advocating a platoon either, just stating that the Twins should be using both their current and future assets more wisely.

[DaveW]

Ditto. Morneau has to sit occasionally, as does Plouffe. Parmelee is not helping the team by sitting on the bench; Valencia may as well get those at-bats. I'm not advocating a platoon either, just stating that the Twins should be using both their current and future assets more wisely.

Why does Plouffe have to sit occasionally? I get protecting him from himself against some elite RHP from time to time, but Plouffe should be playing nearly every day.

Also as far as Plouffe's at bats/games at third go, might as well give them to Carroll who has proven to be a asset in the field (vs Valencia's routine garbage) and has proven to get on base at a decent clip.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Why does Plouffe have to sit occasionally? I get protecting him from himself against some elite RHP from time to time, but Plouffe should be playing nearly every day.

Also as far as Plouffe's at bats/games at third go, might as well give them to Carroll who has proven to be a asset in the field (vs Valencia's routine garbage) and has proven to get on base at a decent clip.

Occasionally, as in "not often". Basically, Valencia would pick up a few ABs from Morneau and a few garbage ABs here and there on getaway days. I'm not advocating that the guy get 500 ABs.

[Ultima Ratio]

Perhaps Parmelee remains due to the lingering Doumit injured calf, Mauer recent injury and secret Morneau injury (if there is one) -- thus he's insurance as something damaging could happen at any moment to those three mentioned, requiring Parm to come in a play 1st. I'm not saying this is the truth or the exact reasoning of the front office, but am doing my best to put the pinches together because, as you all above have noted, Parm getting 3-4 ABs a weeks is baffling.

[snepp]

I forgot Parmelee was even on the roster to be honest, he gets zero playing time.

You weren't the only one, I had to go check the official roster to be sure.

[DaveW]

Perhaps Parmelee remains due to the lingering Doumit injured calf, Mauer recent injury and secret Morneau injury (if there is one) -- thus he's insurance as something damaging could happen at any moment to those three mentioned, requiring Parm to come in a play 1st. I'm not saying this is the truth or the exact reasoning of the front office, but am doing my best to put the pinches together because, as you all above have noted, Parm getting 3-4 ABs a weeks is baffling.

Well Gardy does insist on 3 Catchers on the roster just in case they lose the DH (chances are about 1:3,000 or so), it wouldn't shock me if he keeps 6 1st baseman on the roster for the same reason

[diehardtwinsfan]

are we seriously arguing that Danny V and Morneau should be platooning? I get the idea of making sure that Morneau's day off is against a lefty, but I do think he should be playing every day, as should Valencia and Parmalee. This season is pretty much toast, so unless they can find a spot for those two to occupy every day, then they should be doing it in AAA.

[DPJ]

are we seriously arguing that Danny V and Morneau should be platooning? I get the idea of making sure that Morneau's day off is against a lefty, but I do think he should be playing every day, as should Valencia and Parmalee. This season is pretty much toast, so unless they can find a spot for those two to occupy every day, then they should be doing it in AAA.

Playing everyday...Parm yes, Valencia not so much. Danny is 27, playing everyday in AAA isn't gonna turn him into a major league starter. Better for him to rot on the bench and get the occiasional start or pitch hit duties against tough LHP then have Chris sit and sit for games on end.

[Thrylos]

 

A Valencia/Morneau 1B platoon seems to make the most sense as it maximizes the value in a very simple way and it has the added benefit of not "Tosoni-ing" Parmelee. And then the Twins have another power (vs. LH at least) bat in the lineup. Willingham-Plouffe-Parmelee at 4-5-6 (or 3-4-5) against lefties is pretty appealing.

 

Thoughts?

It could work, but can be done another (easier) way without Valencia having to learn another position: Do the Valencia-Parmelee swap and against LHP play Valencia at 3B and Plouffe at 1B (a position he played before). Easy peasy. But that is if Morneau sticks around the next month or 2

[jokin]

It could work, but can be done another (easier) way without Valencia having to learn another position: Do the Valencia-Parmelee swap and against LHP play Valencia at 3B and Plouffe at 1B (a position he played before). Easy peasy. But that is if Morneau sticks around the next month or 2

Are you suggesting he is gone by July 31? I'm not sure they can get much for him the way he is going right now- but then again, selling at rock bottom has become the "Twins Way".

[DPJ]

It could work, but can be done another (easier) way without Valencia having to learn another position: Do the Valencia-Parmelee swap and against LHP play Valencia at 3B and Plouffe at 1B (a position he played before). Easy peasy. But that is if Morneau sticks around the next month or 2

Ploufee has played all of 13 innings at 1B in his MLB career, it's not like he's a slick glove over there. NTM if you think he's the 3B of the future, you leave him there every single say cause his defense leaves alot to be desired.