Article: Between A Rick And A Hard Place

[troyhobbs]

 

After the last few years of taking whomever was available at AAA, this is ridiculous.  Having a little "extra" in reserve (more before than Santana debacle) is a good thing.

 

A logistical problem, perhaps but far better than the alternatives we saw last few years.

 

Or has the cliche, "you can never have too much good ptiching" gone by the wayside?

"Good pitching" could be a stretch.  It's still one of the worst rotations is the MLB.  If any veteran P's on the staff incite any trade interest from other clubs, which I find hard to believe at this point anyway, I'd take that deal in a heartbeat and readdress the issue from there 

[nytwinsfan]

If May gets sent back to AAA I will cry. It needs to be either Nolasco or Milone that is the odd man out, preferably Nolasco.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I thought about bringing up Gibson, because that K/BB ratio is hideous, but I think he's at least 2-3 bad starts away from even being in consideration for a demotion. I think your point about cool weather affecting sinker-ballers is a fair one.

 

Please don't demote possible parts of the future......why would a team do that?

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

My hope is for Nolasco to get one more rehab start - then Pelfrey and Milone will get to audition one last time for a rotation spot.

 

If Milone wins, Pelf should go to the bullpen and someone like Stauffer or Boyer should get the axe.

 

If Pelf wins, Milone has an option left, so he should be this year's version of Pino, send him to AAA when the rotation is full, call him up first for injury or ineffectiveness.  

 

I think I'd prefer that Pelfrey wins for the moment. But it should be one of those two, rather than May. I could also see an argument for Gibson to be optioned (does he have an option?) to AAA to fix whatever issues he's having.

[JB_Iowa]

 

"Good pitching" could be a stretch.  It's still one of the worst rotations is the MLB.  If any veteran P's on the staff incite any trade interest from other clubs, which I find hard to believe at this point anyway, I'd take that deal in a heartbeat and readdress the issue from there 

 

"Good" is a relative term.  Compared to the last few years, they do have some pitchers who are doing well.

 

None of this is ideal but I can hear the cries had the Twins planned on only 5 starters with little in reserve.  I'd much rather have them have the current problem.

[jimmer]

May has a FIP of 2.66 and an xFIP of 3.31.  Both of these are the best of all the starters.  He keeps throwing like this, he deserves to stay in the rotation.  Gibson and Milone have been horrible.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2015&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=8&rost=0&age=0

[drivlikejehu]

The Twins aren't going to take Nolasco out of the rotation yet. I don't really blame them, either, though I would use the injury as an excuse to have him make a few long-relief appearances before moving back into the rotation. That would give more time for the decision to sort of make itself.

 

Right now, Milone looks worse than both of the guys he beat out for the 5th starter role. It wasn't exactly clear cut even at the time. The Twins have no investment in him... his stuff and control have both declined compared to his time in Oakland. 

 

For that reason, it may not even matter - barring a sudden turnaround, Milone will pitch his way out of the rotation regardless. And Gibson's struggles, for a guy with a career ERA around 5.00, means that his rotation spot is not exactly set in stone either.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I think the real question is does Milone go to the pen (DFA Stauffer) or does Milone still have an option year.  (I think he does.)

Milone does indeed have an option year, and very limited bullpen experience (2 late season appearances for Oakland in 2013).

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

You can't keep a healthy player on the DL to make endless "rehab starts" can you?

Pitchers can rehab for up to 30 days, so in theory we wouldn't be forced to activate Nolasco until May 25th or thereabouts.  (The limit is 20 days for position players.)

 

Sometimes the full 30 days is used, but for more serious injuries or to gradually increase a pitcher's workload, neither of which applies to Nolasco right now.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Milone does indeed have an option year, and very limited bullpen experience (2 late season appearances for Oakland in 2013).

 

Ah, then send him down seems like the right thing......

[tobi0040]

^{BY FIP.  May, Pelfrey, Gibson, then Milone.}

^{By ERA.  Pelfrey, Milone. GIbson, and May.}

^{By future.  Gibson, May, Milone, and Peflrey.}

 

^{Milone  22.2 IP, 4.76 ERA, 6.32 FIP. 1.45 WHIP.  6.4 K per 9.}

^{Pelfrey  24 IP.  2.25 ERA.  4.47 FIP.  1.125 WHIP.  5.6 K per 9}

^{May     14.2 IP, 4.91 ERA.  2.66 FIP.  1.159 WHIP.  8 K per 9}

^{Gibson   22 IP.   4.84 ERA.  5.51 FIP.  1.70 WHIP.  2.4 K per 9}

 

^{I would say Gibson and May are probably part of the future.  Pelfrey has changed his approach, pitch mix, and velocity and has looked a lot better.  So I let it ride a little longer.  Milone doesn't really have any compelling reason.*}

 

 

^{*If Pelfrey lets it ride three more starts and Terry gives him a 2 or 3 year extension I am going to freak out.}

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

You can never have too much pitching...have Nolasco make a rehab start (or two) with Rochester. If no injuries before May 15   or  so and he is fine bring him up, put him in rotation and move whoever is worse (Milone or Pelfrey) to the pen and ditch Stauffer.  If injuries happen  bring Nolasco back then.

 

DO NOT DEMOTE MAY.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Ah, then send him down seems like the right thing......

The Rochester rotation should have room for Milone, as Mark Hamburger has been struggling (and was generally a swingman last year anyway, and almost exclusively a reliever before that).

 

Just noticed that Lester Oliveros made a doubleheader start in AAA recently, and struck out 9 in 4 innings (1 hit, 0 walks).  His first pro start since Venezuelan summer rookie league in 2006.  How did I miss that?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

*If Pelfrey lets it ride three more starts and Terry gives him a 2 or 3 year extension I am going to freak out.

 

tobi, I hate to break it to you, but you've got a font size problem!

[Dbohnk]

I wish the Twins would consider trading Pelfrey. He isn't going to be part of the future and I doubt his trade value would get any higher than it is right now. There has to some team willing to take him. 

[tobi0040]

 

tobi, I hate to break it to you, but you've got a font size problem!

 

Fixed.

 

*If Pelfrey lets it ride three more starts and Terry gives him a 2 or 3 year extension I am going to freak out.

[tobi0040]

 

I wish the Twins would consider trading Pelfrey. He isn't going to be part of the future and I doubt his trade value would get any higher than it is right now. There has to some team willing to take him. 

 

There is one team, but he is already on that team.

[twinscowboysbulls]

It's a "good" thing Meyer isn't tearing things up in AAA or we would be going nuts here at TD. At least I would be.

[laloesch]

 

I wish the Twins would consider trading Pelfrey. He isn't going to be part of the future and I doubt his trade value would get any higher than it is right now. There has to some team willing to take him. 

 

If they're going to move him you would think it would happen at or around the all-star break.  If he continues to pitch like this (I have my doubts) some team looking for a rentable starter will take him off our hands for a B level prospect, which in my opinion is a WIN WIN compared to where we were at six months ago.  

 

He's a free agent at seasons end, no long term commitment required, and pitching well..... for the moment.  Plus, plus & plus to a club looking for a serviceable 5th starter in the midst of a playoff push.    

 

That said, it scares the heck out of me that the Twins FO will have another brain fart and hang onto him, before signing him to ANOTHER extension......shudders.  We have enough of these mediocre filler guys already (Milone & Nolasco).

 

What would be more desirable is to move Big Mike to a playoff contender and then figure out someway somehow to offload Nolasco.  I see it as an amicable split because he's unhappy in Minnesota anyways and the sooner the better.  However, for that to happen it requires good pitching and wins from from Ricky, something he has not displayed yet with the Twins.  

 

One way or another two of these guys will be optioned to AAA by the All-Star break.  Once Santana's suspension is up something has got to give in this rotation.     

[tobi0040]

 

If they're going to move him you would think it would happen at or around the all-star break.  If he continues to pitch like this (I have my doubts) some team looking for a rentable starter will take him off our hands for a B level prospect.  

 

He's a free agent at seasons end, no long term commitment required, and pitching well..... for the moment.  Plus, plus & plus for a club looking for a serviceable 5th starter in the midst of a playoff push.    

 

That said, it scares the heck out of me that the Twins FO will have another brain fart and hang onto him, before signing him to ANOTHER extension......shudders.  We have enough of these mediocre filler guys already (Milone & Nolasco).

 

What would be more desirable is move Big Mike and Nolasco around the all-star break.  However that would require someone being sent down, most likely May or Milone.  Remember too that Santana will be coming back after the all-star break  which will clog up the rotation even more.   

 

He is on pace for a 3 year deal this time.

 

 

[DuluthFan]

There are three pitchers with options remaining. May, Milone and Gibson. Gibson has to be considered for demotion as well if he is not pitching well when Nolasco is ready to be reinstated. Otherwise, May is the low man on the totem pole and he can be sent back down.

[Mike Sixel]

 

There are three pitchers with options remaining. May, Milone and Gibson. Gibson has to be considered for demotion as well if he is not pitching well when Nolasco is ready to be reinstated. Otherwise, May is the low man on the totem pole and he can be sent back down.

 

Making decisions on tenure, not production? Awful idea.

[troyhobbs]

 

It's a "good" thing Meyer isn't tearing things up in AAA or we would be going nuts here at TD. At least I would be.

No, that's a bad thing.  He's the closest thing they have to a staff ace even though it's only been in theory up to this point.

[Mike Sixel]

 

No, that's a bad thing.  He's the closest thing they have to a staff ace even though it's only been in theory up to this point.

 

I think you are replying to sarcasm.....

[troyhobbs]

 

I think you are replying to sarcasm.....

Crap!

[Rosterman]

I would actively be shopping Pelfrey right now, since he will be a free agent and not likely to sign. Today his value is quite high. Higher than it MAY be tomorrow.

 

Gibson could be optioned down to the minors, as can May, and even Milone, I believe. We might see one start from each before the decision on Nolasco.

 

Thielbar will disappear when Duensing returns.

 

Of course, one the starters can move to the pen and Stauffer can go, too.

 

But see if any teams currently down a starter can give us some offensive help. I would answer the phone, Terry! I mean, what would Billy Beane be thinking of doing right now!?

 

[JB_Iowa]

Well, Phil Hughes may have provided a temporary solution to this dilemma by straining his hip flexor tendon today.

[Vanimal46]

 

^{BY FIP.  May, Pelfrey, Gibson, then Milone.}

^{By ERA.  Pelfrey, Milone. GIbson, and May.}

^{By future.  Gibson, May, Milone, and Peflrey.}

 

^{Milone  22.2 IP, 4.76 ERA, 6.32 FIP. 1.45 WHIP.  6.4 K per 9.}

^{Pelfrey  24 IP.  2.25 ERA.  4.47 FIP.  1.125 WHIP.  5.6 K per 9}

^{May     14.2 IP, 4.91 ERA.  2.66 FIP.  1.159 WHIP.  8 K per 9}

^{Gibson   22 IP.   4.84 ERA.  5.51 FIP.  1.70 WHIP.  2.4 K per 9}

 

^{I would say Gibson and May are probably part of the future.  Pelfrey has changed his approach, pitch mix, and velocity and has looked a lot better.  So I let it ride a little longer.  Milone doesn't really have any compelling reason.*}

 

 

^{*If Pelfrey lets it ride three more starts and Terry gives him a 2 or 3 year extension I am going to freak out.}

 

 

Please don't give Terry any ideas.... Hide the check book!

[laloesch]

 

There are three pitchers with options remaining. May, Milone and Gibson. Gibson has to be considered for demotion as well if he is not pitching well when Nolasco is ready to be reinstated. Otherwise, May is the low man on the totem pole and he can be sent back down.

 

Unfortunately, I think you're correct.  If his last start hadn't been shortened by that fluke ball to the elbow he would have had more time to make the case that he belongs.  However, at this point money and option years talk.  May will likely go down to AAA when Nolasco returns, unless Milone absolutely implodes in his next start.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Unfortunately, I think you're correct.  If his last start hadn't been shortened by that fluke ball to the elbow he would have had more time to make the case that he belongs.  However, at this point money and option years talk.  May will likely go down to AAA when Nolasco returns, unless Milone absolutely implodes in his next start.

 

May going down would not encourage me to continue caring about this team when I move this fall.....