Article: Sorting Out The Bullpen

[Lakeside]

My take on this subject--

 

Perkins

Fien

Duensing

Thielbar - I also like Thompson, but experience the difference

Pelfrey -- for the time being (Millone or May is 5th starter)

Graham - impressive enough to keep as Rule 5

Boyer

 

Stauffer -- will stay instead of Boyer if he has a couple more good outings. Otherwis he is waived.

Hamburger - I think Molitor likes him.  Bad outing cost him. . could be up if Boyer falters.

Tonkin - can't seem to get the numbers he has in minors in MLB. . time is running out.

Burdi---will be up sometime this year

Reed--will be September call up

 

[jorgenswest]

I wonder if anyone other than Perkins would make the Royals bullpen. Adding to the frustration is that they have no one with upside other than Graham.

 

I suppose Pelfrey may have upside. How would they know? Has Pelfrey even come in mid inning with runners on base? Have they evaluated his ability to pitch on back to back days? Do they have any idea if he is suited for the role?

[biggentleben]

I'm curious how Graham's velocity is "surprising".  It's certainly not surprising the Twins or anyone who's ever scouted him.  He's routinely hit triple digits on the radar gun when he cuts it loose and pitches in the high-90s even as a starter when healthy, but there's the rub - and why he was available in rule V - he is rarely healthy because he throws so hard every single pitch, which is why he hasn't had a full minor league season in his career.

[Dr. Evil]

Our bullpen, imho, will piss away a lot of quality starts. I'm bummed that so little was thrown at the pen in the offseason. I see quality starts followed by circuis music on our horizon. Our relief corps would be on the Royals AAA team. Sorry to be negative but more and more I'm getting fed up with the Terry Ryan way.

[Rosterman]

We have no problems if the starters give us 7 strong innings and we have a bullen of 7 arms. Keep whoever you choose on a short lease and the phone line open to Rochester!

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Our bullpen, imho, will piss away a lot of quality starts. I'm bummed that so little was thrown at the pen in the offseason. I see quality starts followed by circuis music on our horizon. Our relief corps would be on the Royals AAA team. Sorry to be negative but more and more I'm getting fed up with the Terry Ryan way.

There are many reasons to be frustrated with Ryan but his bullpens are not one of them. The guy has built a career of slapping together quality bullpens on the cheap.

 

Yeah, I'm not in love with the appearance of the 2015 pen but I'm going to let them pitch before I get too upset about it.

[jorgenswest]

There are many reasons to be frustrated with Ryan but his bullpens are not one of them. The guy has built a career of slapping together quality bullpens on the cheap.

Yeah, I'm not in love with the appearance of the 2015 pen but I'm going to let them pitch before I get too upset about it.

Since his return Ryan's bullpens have ranked 28th, 24th and 29th according to xFIP. While cheap, they haven't been quality.

[Brock Beauchamp]

They've gotten the job done, whether xFIP wants you to believe that or not.

 

Any failings of the bullpen have been directly tied to the rotation and eight men bullpens. The Twins' core bullpen guys have been "good enough". No, they're not flashy and no, they're not the darling of advanced metrics but they haven't killed the team.

 

What has killed the pitching staff is a rotation that can barely pitch five innings a game. No bullpen will shine under that spotlight as you dig into your eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh best bullpen option during the season.

[jorgenswest]

How about strike outs instead of xFIP? Let's just look at inning 7-9 and throw out the middle relievers coming in after those short starts.

 

The Twins late inning relievers were 30th last year and it was even close. Even an improvement of 10% from 321 to 353 would keep them with a rank of 30. They ranked 19th in 2013 and 30th in 2012.

 

The bullpen Ryan built for the team last year performed among the league's worst if not the worst. That includes the performance of the late inning guys. They performed poorly last year. They haven't performed well since Ryan returned.

 

Maybe it is not possible to cobble together a cheap bullpen in the current era that Ryan has reentered. Maybe good bullpens are built on strong young arms rather than cast off veterans.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Brock, it wasn't necessarily options 8-11 that hurt the bullpen last year. It is possible that 4 of our top 7 to open 2014 will not even open 2015 in MLB. And that doesn't even include Duensing.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I didn't mean to imply that last year's bullpen was good. My intent was to point out that Ryan's bullpens are rarely bad. Last year faltered as yet another rotation fell to pieces mid season but they weren't a very strong group of pitchers in the first place.

 

I'm not going to fret about the bullpen until they throw innings in MLB games that count. Do I trust this bullpen? No, not even a little bit.

 

But given the volatility of bullpen arms and the live arms in the Twins' farm system, I'm not going to go marching up to 34 Twins Way with a torch and pitchfork quite yet.

[Dr. Evil]

There are many reasons to be frustrated with Ryan but his bullpens are not one of them. The guy has built a career of slapping together quality bullpens on the cheap.

Yeah, I'm not in love with the appearance of the 2015 pen but I'm going to let them pitch before I get too upset about it.

Yes, I agree that Ryan has done that in the past. My point is that I think his luck runs out this year. Hopefully I am proven wrong. I hope they do really well. Having said that, I just wish they had mixed in at least one stud free agent along with the "on the cheap" options. Staufer and a rule 5 guy, although one or both could work out ok, do not represent a real serious effort to improve an area of your team. You have an area that I feel needs help and you roll a hand full of dice at it and hope it works out. That doesn't cut it in the world of business imho. That is a little more explanation of why I feel the way I do on the matter I guess.

[Dr. Evil]

Having said that, I do think and agree that better starting pitching does help the pen.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think Ryan is right in avoiding high profile bullpen arms in free agency. Relievers are just too damned volatile from season to season and the impact of a single reliever just isn't high enough to offset that risk.

 

If things get bad, be aggressive and call up Nick Burdi.

[jorgenswest]

They needed to go with young arms and let them grow. They would rather rid the certain mediocrity (or worse) from a veteran than give a long look to a young bullpen arm. They need to invest in that upside instead of continuing to cycle through cheap veterans.

 

The old way of building a bullpen hasn't worked since his return. The bullpens of 2012-2014 were among the worst in baseball. At some point we have to stop thinking that Ryan has the ability to put together a good bullpen on the cheap.

[Dr. Evil]

To me it seems like bullpens have become more important than ever the way the game has changed. Getting one guy with a solid MLB track record would have been a reasonable risk to take IMHO. Right now we don't have anyone, not even one guy, who strikes me as a blow the opponent away reliever. We are counting on guys in the pen that I personally feel are over rated and have marginal talent. I hope I end up being wrong. Good luck with Fien in the setup role and Duensing as primary non-closer lefty. At least there are proven guys behind them...........ahem........who are they again?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

They needed to go with young arms and let them grow. They would rather rid the certain mediocrity (or worse) from a veteran than give a long look to a young bullpen arm. They need to invest in that upside instead of continuing to cycle through cheap veterans.

I can't really disagree with this take, at least not in 2015. The Twins have so many guys who could step into a relief role.

 

I like the idea of scrapheap pick-ups but if they're not performing, you cast them aside quickly and you certainly don't let them get in the way of guys like Burdi.

[twinscowboysbulls]

Tim Stauffer's velocity is still at 88. I don't think he should make this club.

[jorgenswest]

I think a team projected for 90 losses should be searching the waivers for guys like Felix Dubront to pitch the low leverage innings rather than decline phase veterans that will not be part of the solution.

 

If Stauffer or Boyer don't have the talent to be late inning guys, they should not have a place on this roster.

[nicksaviking]

Cleveland released Scott Downs. It seems the Twins have flirted with him for years. He can't strike anyone out anymore, he's a lefty and he's old as dirt. Even money says the Twins are already on the phone with his agent.

Edited March 30, 2015 by nicksaviking

[Otto von Ballpark]

Cleveland released Scott Downs. It seems the Twins have flirted with him for years. He can't strike anyone out anymore, he's a lefty and he's old as dirt. Even money says the Twins are already on the phone with his agent.

He was briefly property of the Twins back in 1998-1999. Acquired from the Cubs for Mike Morgan, then shipped back to the Cubs a few months later with Aguilera for Lohse.

 

Wow, he is old!

[jimmer]

 

He was briefly property of the Twins back in 1998-1999. Acquired from the Cubs for Mike Morgan, then shipped back to the Cubs a few months later with Aguilera for Lohse.

Wow, he is old!

Yeah he is. Almost as old as our starting RF. Oh wait, I guess they are exactly the same age for a few months.

Edited March 31, 2015 by jimmer

[nytwinsfan]

Really disappointed this morning seeing Thielbar lose a spot. I realize that it is just Spring Training so far, but I just hope that if Stauffer continues to perform terribly, or if Boyer does not perform, Molitor/Ryan will be wiling to send them down/release them/whatever and bring back Thielbar.