A Far-Fetched Trade

[RedBull34]

As per MLBTR, the Cubbies and Braves are in talks that would move Edwin Jackson to the Braves for Mike Minor & B.J. Upton.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/08/braves-to-revisit-b-j-upton-trade-talks-could-move-gattis-in-offseason.html#disqus_thread

 

I'm curious if the Twins could arrange this with Ricky Nolasco for the same two. 

 

What are your thoughts?

[drjim]

Interesting concept, picking up money to get an upgrade in the rotation.

 

Upton is not good.

[Mike Sixel]

It is one way to get players, take on bad contracts and get a better prospect.......I don't recall the Twins doing that in the past, but I could be forgetting something.

[drjim]

It is one way to get players, take on bad contracts and get a better prospect.......I don't recall the Twins doing that in the past, but I could be forgetting something.

 

I can't really remember this happening with other teams.

 

And, of course, it hasn't happened here either (yet).

 

Unique trade, smart for a bigger market rebuilding team with some extra money to burn.

[iTwins]

The bad player for bad player swap is an interesting one. Sometimes it works well (Jason Grilli to the Angels after struggling with Pittsburgh) sometimes it doesn't (Ernesto Frieri to the Pirates - AKA the other half of the aformentioned trade).

 

In this case, BJ Upton has been so utterly, disastrously bad in Atlanta that I'd still rather have Nolasco.

[RedBull34]

The bad player for bad player swap is an interesting one. Sometimes it works well (Jason Grilli to the Angels after struggling with Pittsburgh) sometimes it doesn't (Ernesto Frieri to the Pirates - AKA the other half of the aformentioned trade).

 

In this case, BJ Upton has been so utterly, disastrously bad in Atlanta that I'd still rather have Nolasco.

Correct, but the Minor seems to be the major acquisition, which certainly sweetens the pot.

 

In no way has Nolasco been as bad as Upton, but conversly Nolasco has not been as good as Minor so...

[drjim]

A trade scenario that seems more likely for the Twins and Nolasco would be for one of the Dodgers OFs - Kemp or Ethier, with money or prospects changing hands to balance. It would be a bad contract for bad contract, but could fill the LF position. Then reinvest in another FA pitcher (or two). That would be my ideal offseason for the Twins.

[pierre75275]

i would take it but I believe Nolasco has a lot more length of a contract then Jackson

[bird]

A trade scenario that seems more likely for the Twins and Nolasco would be for one of the Dodgers OFs - Kemp or Ethier, with money or prospects changing hands to balance. It would be a bad contract for bad contract, but could fill the LF position. Then reinvest in another FA pitcher (or two). That would be my ideal offseason for the Twins.

Agreed! Bring me a catcher too, Santa.

[old nurse]

2 years and 22 mil for Jackson. 46 million left on Upton. Is Minor the pitcher he was in 2013 or the rest of the time. 24 million is a lot to pay to find out if you have a good pitcher or a mediocre one.

Nolasco for Upton and Minor, probably not.

[kab21]

Minor has some shoulder problems.  An underrated pitcher if healthy but that could quickly change and then you are left with Upton who is barely playable currently (negative WAR FWIW).

[DocBauer]

A trade scenario that seems more likely for the Twins and Nolasco would be for one of the Dodgers OFs - Kemp or Ethier, with money or prospects changing hands to balance. It would be a bad contract for bad contract, but could fill the LF position. Then reinvest in another FA pitcher (or two). That would be my ideal offseason for the Twins.

I actually kind of like this. I don't see it happening, but I could get behind it.

 

Doubt the Dodgers would trade Kemp, but think they could be in on Ethier. I'm no expert on Either, but I've heard some bad reports about his defense.

[Danchat]

I wouldn't touch B. J. Upton. I would wait until mid-2015 to see if Nolasco has rebounded or not, and if not, then I'd explore a trade like this.

[darin617]

Only if Joe Mauer can be worked into the trade. Bad contract swap and maybe the Twins could get a better pitcher than Minor in return.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I don't get why the Braves would want to make that trade unless they really really dislike having Upton on their team.

[nicksaviking]

I have to think Jackson's two remaining years is much, much more attractive than Nolasco's three remaining years.  I'd be interested but hesitant, mostly because I'm not sure the club would be willing to make a guy earning $14 million+ per year a 4th OF, which is clearly what Upton should be at this point. 

 

Though getting out of his younger and richer brother's shadow may very well be what he needs to get a boost.

[gunnarthor]

Upton is so bad he might just be considered a sunk cost at this point.  Minor was good last year but he hasn't been great this year, for whatever reason.  fWAR actually has Nolasco higher than Minor this year and bWAR is pretty close.  Both have been bad ERA+-wise (71 and 75).  I think I actually trust Nolasco a bit more than Minor at this point, at least if Upton is involved.

[Winston Smith]

Can we throw Pelfrey into any trade please?

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Upton + cash for Jackson makes more sense. Minor may not be of the same vintage as some of the classic Braves pitchers, but Jackson for Minor doesn't seem like an even trade, even though the main goal is dumping the Upton contract.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Can we throw Pelfrey into any trade please?

Pelfrey for Upton would be interesting... The Braves would possibly want to do that just to get rid of Upton, but it would mean a lot of bloat on the Twins Payroll (which they have been mostly able to cut out via trade the last two months).

I don't think the Braves would sweeten an Upton for Pelfrey deal with a 2nd player, but maaaaybe they would?

With only one year left on his contract, Pelfrey would be a bit more enticing than Jackson for cost reasons. The Twins might be able to get a second player back in that deal if they add someone marginally useful to the Braves. No opinion on who that might be.

 

Upton's contract is really awful. It would be hard to justify taking it on given his struggles this year.

[kab21]

Why on earth would we trade a 5M sunk cost for a 45M sunk cost?  I'm not a fan of Schafer but I would rather have him than a 15M/yr BJ Upton.  That's how bad Upton is.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I agree - the Twins should not be interested in acquiring Upton at all. Just speaking hypothetically about what the Braves and Twins would be willing to trade in bad contracts.

 

The Twins would not do it straight up, Pelf for Upton.

 

Would either team want to do Pelfrey and Pinto for Upton and Gattis? Apparently the Braves are soured on Gattis' defense... I'm guessing it's really more about $$

 

If I were the Twins, I would consider Pelfrey and Pinto for Upton, Gattis, and a young arm.

If I were the Braves, I don't know if I would be willing to add a third player, but I'd have to consider it to get rid of Upton's contract.

 

But really, I wouldn't want Upton's contract for anything. The Braves are going to have add some cash to pretty much any deal involving him.

[jokin]

Bad contracts from bad teams that maybe the Twins should consider among players who have cleared waivers?

 

Shin-Soo Choo

Curtis Granderson

Trevor Cahill

Alex Rios

 

 

These four could probably be had for very little in return, 

 

If the Dodgers were desperate enough to get Correia, they could possibly jump at the chance to move Kemp for Nolasco.

[tobi0040]

I think Nolasco has had a pretty good career and was hurt this year.  His next three years should be better than his last year, IMO.  It would be a silly time to trade him.  He can be a #3-4 starter in this league still.  BJ Upton looks like a very high K, very low BA, and a poor attitude.  So roughly owed the same amount of money with an extra year, I would rather have Nolasco. 

Minor is slightly appealing, but he is not better than Meyer, Gibson, or Hughes IMO. 

[biggentleben]

As per MLBTR, the Cubbies and Braves are in talks that would move Edwin Jackson to the Braves for Mike Minor & B.J. Upton.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/08/braves-to-revisit-b-j-upton-trade-talks-could-move-gattis-in-offseason.html#disqus_thread

 

I'm curious if the Twins could arrange this with Ricky Nolasco for the same two. 

 

What are your thoughts?

 

There were never "talks" regarding Minor that got anywhere.  The Cubs asked for Minor PLUS over half of Upton's salary to be paid.  The Braves have reportedly confirmed that they'd have done the deal at the deadline (not now, as Minor's been one of the best pitchers in baseball in August), but it would have been BJ + a max of $10M for Jackson or BJ + Minor for Jackson + cash.  The Cubs wanted significantly more than $10M.

 

I don't see any possibility of Nolasco as the Braves are very familiar with Nolasco, and they were offered a deal before he was moved to Los Angeles for a prospect in the 30-40 range on their top prospects with the rest of the season paid by the Marlins, and they passed it up.

[biggentleben]

Bad contracts from bad teams that maybe the Twins should consider among players who have cleared waivers?

 

Shin-Soo Choo

Curtis Granderson

Trevor Cahill

Alex Rios

 

 

These four could probably be had for very little in return, 

 

If the Dodgers were desperate enough to get Correia, they could possibly jump at the chance to move Kemp for Nolasco.

 

Choo is done for the season at this point, and he has an incredibly nasty contract for the next 6 years that is extremely backloaded with $14M per this season and in 2015, then $20M each 2016-2018, and then $21M in 2019 and 2020.  One of the worst contracts of the offseason.

[biggentleben]

I agree - the Twins should not be interested in acquiring Upton at all. Just speaking hypothetically about what the Braves and Twins would be willing to trade in bad contracts.

 

The Twins would not do it straight up, Pelf for Upton.

 

Would either team want to do Pelfrey and Pinto for Upton and Gattis? Apparently the Braves are soured on Gattis' defense... I'm guessing it's really more about $$

 

If I were the Twins, I would consider Pelfrey and Pinto for Upton, Gattis, and a young arm.

If I were the Braves, I don't know if I would be willing to add a third player, but I'd have to consider it to get rid of Upton's contract.

 

But really, I wouldn't want Upton's contract for anything. The Braves are going to have add some cash to pretty much any deal involving him.

 

Yeah, what you said here...not a chance of happening.

 

Gattis has received high marks from the Braves staff in his defense this season.  The reason he's being considered for a move is that they have possibly the best defensive catcher since Yadi ready for the majors and Gattis is still cheap and could fetch a huge trade return.  If the Twins opened talks with Kohl Stewart or J.O. Berrios, then Gattis may be a discussion, but that's really the only way the Braves will move him this offseason is if they're blown away.

[biggentleben]

I don't get why the Braves would want to make that trade unless they really really dislike having Upton on their team.

 

Upton has been that terrible.  He's being replaced by a guy who was released during spring training currently in the Braves lineup.  They also have room for a guy whose contract will be off the books after 2016, when the extensions signed this offseason start to get expensive. Nolasco is more expensive and has one more year than they'd like, so he's not a good fit for what they'd like to do in moving BJ.

[biggentleben]

Upton is so bad he might just be considered a sunk cost at this point.  Minor was good last year but he hasn't been great this year, for whatever reason.  fWAR actually has Nolasco higher than Minor this year and bWAR is pretty close.  Both have been bad ERA+-wise (71 and 75).  I think I actually trust Nolasco a bit more than Minor at this point, at least if Upton is involved.

 

Oh goodness.