Blunt Comments from Gladden

[TheLeviathan]

Gladden: “You know what, here’s one thing I hope can kind of get rooted or maybe even changed to an extent, and that is the philosophy of the Twins. … You’ve heard it: ‘You’ve got to hit the ball the other way.’ It’s almost like everybody who puts a Twins uniform on, they’re taught to go the other way. … A guy like Arcia right here, what are we hearing? ‘He’s trying to pull the ball. He’s trying to pull the ball. We need to have him go the other way.’ Arcia to me is a dead-red pull guy, so let’s teach him to pull the ball rather than try to teach him to go the other way and hit doubles and singles — which he can do, but that’s not his game. … We had Jim Thome here, kind of a one-dimensional, one-field type guy. David Ortiz, when we heard after he left, they told him to pull the ball and that’s what he’s done. I think the philosophy — you need to be able to evaluate the player. Vargas is a guy that should have opposite-field power.”

 

 

 

He said much the same on 1500 today saying something to the effect of: "You can bet no one has told Willingham to go the other way" as a reason to just let some kids be what they are.

 

Is this something he's aware of in-house or is this just his observations much like a fan?

[Brock Beauchamp]

That is way too coherent to have come from Dan Gladden.

[Brad Swanson]

I have no idea where this came from or what the context was, but I love it and I now want to marry Dan Gladden.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think there's value in being able to do it.  It's all part of the adjustments.  If I know a hitter is going to pull, I'm going to give him a lot of stuff on the outer half.  A hitter that can take a hittable pitch to the opposite field will still be able to get base hits when getting that steady diet, but if he tries to yank those, he's more likely to roll over it and ground out. 

 

As for Arcia, yes, if he's a true pull hitter, he needs to develop that, no question.  Knowing how to go oppo when necessary is still worthwhile though.  Not sure he should be going to the plate with the intent of doing it (unless there's a nice shift on), but being able to recognize that he's not getting anything he can pull and adjusting is something any hitter should learn. 

[Boom Boom]

Gladden's not the first to make this known. Ortiz and Hardy and Gomez have all said the Twins tried to tinker with their swings to make them hit the ball the other way more.

It could be overblown based on the success those guys have had after leaving the Twins, but where there's smoke there's fire in my opinion.  I think this is a primary focus the Twins put on their hitters ever since the TK administration, and probably moreso than most other teams.

 

It's not just the manager.  I hear it on the TV broadcast all the time, "When a guy gets hits to the opposite field you know he's going good".

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think there are reasons to teach a player to go opposite field but it depends on the player. Is Arcia more Trevor Plouffe or more David Ortiz? I think he's more Ortiz, though he probably won't have that kind of career.

 

If the player is good enough to be a dead-pull hitter and succeed, leave him be. JJ Hardy and David Ortiz are obvious examples of players to leave alone.

 

If the player isn't good enough to be a dead-pull hitter - like Trevor Plouffe - then convincing the player to consider going opposite field isn't the worst idea in the world.

 

Personally, I think Arcia is good enough that he can be a quality dead-pull hitter and the Twins shouldn't try to change that.

[TheLeviathan]

He also talked about that in the context of Kenny Vargas on the Judd and Mackey show today.  

 

I think his point is not to force someone to be something they're not, he credited the Red Sox for allowing Ortiz to be himself as one of the reasons behind his breakout.

 

Just an interesting perspective from one of the Twins' voices.

[Trov]

I think the philosophy of hitting the opposite field should be that they have the ability, but should not be mandated to HR power guys.  I think knowing when you should look for an outside pitch and drive it to the other field is an important skill.  It can also teach to stay back on fastballs so you are not so out in front of off-speed pitches. 

 

I would hope they are more so teaching players to have a plan at the plate and know how the pitchers are pitching them and adjust.  Also, teaching to hit other way teaches hitters to keep hips closed long which typcially will increase power and the ability to reach other pitches.  I do agree though that trying to mess with a guys swing who has performed well at all levels before they even face major league pitching is a mistake.  Some players need to have the see ball hit ball approach.

[Seth Stohs]

I see nothing wrong with encouraging hitters to be complete hitters. I don't want Josh Willingham slapping a single to right field on a pitch right down the middle of the plate, but on a pitch on the outside corner, I don't want him rolling over a weak ground ball to SS either.

 

I'm good with Gladden's comments. But, Ortiz has also hit a lot of balls off the Monster in his years too. He's not entirely a pull hitter. He's been able to hit for average to go with the home runs because of his ability to use the whole field.

 

What I like about the comments, and what I think Brunansky teaches, is that when you get your pitch, don't be afraid to crush it.

 

I've talked to players that played for him in the minors and he said that there were times that it was OK to just go out and swing out of your shoes on your pitch. Other times, being able to take a good swing and be productive is important. 

[Seth Stohs]

Kirby Puckett is a great example... He stayed inside the ball and hit line drive after line drive to right field (Jeter does the same thing)... but as Puckett matured as a player, he found pitches that he was able to turn on and pull for long home runs as well. 

[TheLeviathan]

I think Bruno has changed some of that mentality.  The problem Gladden is speaking to isn't that you can't help a hitter become more complete....it's the mentality that I think was here at one point that taught that approaching every at-bat with an "up the middle or opposite field" mindset.  And, I think, was punitive to hitters that didn't take that mindset.

 

I think that was harmful for some hitters that came through our system at the time.  I've personally seen the emphasis decrease substantially over the last decade.  Particularly under Vavra and now Bruno.  It's a change for the better IMO.

[Thrylos]

Kirby Puckett is a great example... He stayed inside the ball and hit line drive after line drive to right field (Jeter does the same thing)... but as Puckett matured as a player, he found pitches that he was able to turn on and pull for long home runs as well. 

 

There are not many Kirby Pucketts out there.  And I think that the point is, unless someone is Puckett or Gwynn or something, it is more effective to go with their strengths as hitters rather than trying to make them something they are not.  And the Twins are treating younger hitters different than veterans for sure. 

[Kwak]

Changing a players "swing"?  Successful hitters don't need to change, failing players must change!  I don't read poters on  TD complaining about Dozier's hitting approach.  I most definitely don't think Dozier will change his philosophy--his HR production will guarantee him a huge salary in the near future. 

 

I agree with Gladden.  I do get frustrated when the Twins sign a new draft choice and then decide a major change is required.  Sort of like putting ketchup on your meal before you've tasted it. 

[bird]

I think there are reasons to teach a player to go opposite field but it depends on the player. Is Arcia more Trevor Plouffe or more David Ortiz? I think he's more Ortiz, though he probably won't have that kind of career.

 

If the player is good enough to be a dead-pull hitter and succeed, leave him be. JJ Hardy and David Ortiz are obvious examples of players to leave alone.

 

If the player isn't good enough to be a dead-pull hitter - like Trevor Plouffe - then convincing the player to consider going opposite field isn't the worst idea in the world.

 

Personally, I think Arcia is good enough that he can be a quality dead-pull hitter and the Twins shouldn't try to change that.

 

 

I personally don't know squat, but something tells me Gladden's comments are a bit simplistic. We're hearing Smalley lately talking about how Dozier could go from .240 to .280 if he uses the whole field. Plouffe's improvement was about plate coverage and how taking it the other way was his only option with those pitches. Arcia can look foolish up there, and Brock, I'm not so convinced he's talented enough to be dead-pull even if he rids himself of the hitch in his swing that gets talked about. I mean, wouldn't he be better of showing the ability to drive the ball with authority to all fields?

[drock2190]

He was also wondering today why the Twins havent signed any good Cuba players since they have Tony O as a representative. 

 

He does have some thoughts sometimes.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I personally don't know squat, but something tells me Gladden's comments are a bit simplistic. We're hearing Smalley lately talking about how Dozier could go from .240 to .280 if he uses the whole field. Plouffe's improvement was about plate coverage and how taking it the other way was his only option with those pitches. Arcia can look foolish up there, and Brock, I'm not so convinced he's talented enough to be dead-pull even if he rids himself of the hitch in his swing that gets talked about. I mean, wouldn't he be better of showing the ability to drive the ball with authority to all fields?

 

Would Carlos Gomez, Adam Dunn, or David Ortiz be better players if they used the entire field?

 

Some players don't swing that way. If they have the swing and the power to be dead-pull and do it successfully, I see no reason to change that.

 

Oswaldo Arcia has just over 600 MLB PAs with an OPS+ of 100. He just turned 23 years old a few days ago. There's a lot more power coming from that swing as he matures and I think it's a mistake to force him into an uncomfortable plate approach.

 

Work on his discipline, sure. Work on pitch recognition, definitely. Tell him to go oppo field? Nah, not so much.

[TheLeviathan]

Not only that, but could Brian Dozier increase his average by 40 points?  Sure, he might also cut his homeruns in half.  Or worse.

 

Let a guy do what he does well and help on the things Brock mentioned.

[Riverbrian]

Yes Carlos Gomez... Adam Dunn and David Ortiz would be better players if they used the whole field.

 

It's really simple... Unless you have Gorilla arms... You can't jerk an outside pitch and pull it out if the park. If Brian Dozier learned to go the opposite way... He'd raise his average 40 points and still have the same amount of homeruns because going the opposite way with an outside pitch doesn't prevent you from still turning on a the cookie down the middle. He isn't hitting the outside pitch into the seats.

 

Hit it hard and go with the pitch.

[ashbury]

because going the opposite way with an outside pitch doesn't prevent you from still turning on a the cookie down the middle.

Not only that.  You'll get more of those cookies when the other guys find out that pitching outside isn't so much of a win.

[curt1965]

Mr. Mauer is just the opposite-his stroke is to LF or left center. He would never have become such a great hitter if he had tried to pull everything. I feel you have to consider the batter- if a hitters best chance is to pull the ball, and management can live with the fact that he'll probably always be a .240-.250 hitter, don't change him. If you are someone like Plouffe and want to prolong your career, and want to be more productive, consider going the opposite way when the pitch dictates that. Or maybe, if you are like Mauer, Carew, Boggs, and Gwynn and want to hit for a high average, and don't care how many HR's you hit, go the opposite way.

I also think management has a right to weigh in if a player has peaked, and their career needs a reboot.

But don't try to change the power guys-they are few and far between.

[Paul Pleiss]

If Dazzle Dan was the manager on this team, would they have more or fewer wins than they do under Ronnie G?

 

I like what Dazzle has to say, and I'd supoort him putting the cleats back on and joinging the coaching staff. Plus he'd be off the radio, and a color guy who actually tells you what's going on in the game might be hired in his place.

[TheLeviathan]

Mr. Mauer is just the opposite-his stroke is to LF or left center. He would never have become such a great hitter if he had tried to pull everything.

 

Great example.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Yes Carlos Gomez... Adam Dunn and David Ortiz would be better players if they used the whole field.

 

It's really simple... Unless you have Gorilla arms... You can't jerk an outside pitch and pull it out if the park. If Brian Dozier learned to go the opposite way... He'd raise his average 40 points and still have the same amount of homeruns because going the opposite way with an outside pitch doesn't prevent you from still turning on a the cookie down the middle. He isn't hitting the outside pitch into the seats.

 

Hit it hard and go with the pitch.

 

Adam Dunn and David Ortiz have gorilla arms. Gomez has crazy bat speed and wrists.

 

So does Arcia and when all is said and done, he might have gorilla arms as well.

 

The same approach doesn't work for every player. You'd have a hell of a time convincing me that Dunn, Gomez, and Ortiz would be better players if they used the entire field. What's more likely is that they'd see their power decline. Sometimes those homers and doubles come on pitches they "should" be spraying oppo.

[Mike Sixel]

I think the key point is that not every player is the same, and that trying a cookie cutter approach is a bad idea.

 

I also disagree that successful players should not change. Continuous improvement should be the goal. There are plenty of players in sports that have re-tooled their swing, shot, approach, whatever. 

[TheLeviathan]

I think the key point is that not every player is the same, and that trying a cookie cutter approach is a bad idea.

 

I also disagree that successful players should not change. Continuous improvement should be the goal. There are plenty of players in sports that have re-tooled their swing, shot, approach, whatever. 

 

Absolutely, working with pull hitters to drive an outside is fine, just don't rework their bread and butter.

 

The part that Gladden is spot on about is the point that no one is muscling Willingham into being a "spray the ball the other way" guy and nor is the team trying to force Mauer to yank the ball for power.  

 

Let a guy be who he is and work to improve that rather than tearing the whole thing down to start over.  I think we're seeing that with Arcia - they aren't telling him to tone down his swing, but they are trying to position his hands better and working on pitch recognition.  That, to me, is perfect.

 

10 years ago we might be trying to force Arcia to slap the ball for singles to left.  It's been a welcome change.

[Brock Beauchamp]

10 years ago we might be trying to force Arcia to slap the ball for singles to left.  It's been a welcome change.

 

Yep. I have no issues with Bruno's work with the hitters. Hell, I thought Vavra was a pretty good hitting coach as well.

 

A lot has changed since the days of Ullger and I welcome it.

[TRex]

I think one reason that it is more important for Arcia to learn to use the whole field is that he apparently has no clue where the outside of the strike zone is and, from his career W:SO rates, it looks like he never has. This is quite different from many of the other sluggers that have been listed (Willingham, Ortiz, Dunn, etc).

 

Until he learns either better strike zone judgement or  to drive the ball the other way, he will continue to be a low BA, sub-.800 OPS guy. That is not to say he wouldn't still be a very useful player... Jacque Jones never did learn how to hit left-handers or lay off sliders in the dirt and was an integral part of our success in the millenia's first decade!

[TheLeviathan]

I think one reason that it is more important for Arcia to learn to use the whole field is that he apparently has no clue where the outside of the strike zone is and, from his career W:SO rates, it looks like he never has. This is quite different from many of the other sluggers that have been listed (Willingham, Ortiz, Dunn, etc).

 

Until he learns either better strike zone judgement or  to drive the ball the other way, he will continue to be a low BA, sub-.800 OPS guy. That is not to say he wouldn't still be a very useful player... Jacque Jones never did learn how to hit left-handers or lay off sliders in the dirt and was an integral part of our success in the millenia's first decade!

 

Teaching pitch recognition is just fine!  You aren't reworking a swing then, you're just helping the player lay off what they aren't going to hit. 

 

Gladden's issue was with them basically deconstructing hitters in order to remake them as slappy all-fields players.

[TRex]

I guess what I was trying to say is that there is very little precedent for players actually 'learning' strike zone judgement, so the only real choice you have is seeing if they can learn to use the opposite field.

[Beezer07]

What value is there in an all-pull guy trying to pull pitches on the outer half of the plate? I don't see how anyone could have a problem with a guy like Arcia pulling pitches that he can reach and going the other way with pitches he can't. If he's trying to pull outside pitches, he needs to change.