Josh Willingham trade value?

[darin617]

What do you think Josh Willingham would be worth to a contender? 2 more years under contract for $7 million a year is pretty cheap and under control for 2 more years. I would love to keep him but I don't see the Twins willing to contend any time soon. At least you could possibly get a good young arm to rebuild the rotation around for him.

[Top Gun]

You can't trade all your best players. You have to field a team. The rotation is fine, Twins are winning.

[glunn]

Depending on how he plays as the trade deadline approaches, I would think that the Twins could hold out for a lot. Willingham seems a little streaky, and it will be good if he can stay hot.

 

Willingham is 33 years old, and he may be 36 or 37 by the time that the Twins are ready to contend again. So he seems expendable.

 

On the other hand, if this looks like a salary dump, fans should be resentful. I would love to see a trade where the Twins deal with a smaller cap team who will give up excellent prospects if the Twins agree to eat some of Willingham's salary. The Twins could show good faith to the fans by spending some money if an opportunity arises to get one or more excellent prospects as part of a trade with a smaller cap team.

[Shane Wahl]

He's signed for three-year deal. He isn't going anywhere. And he shouldn't. I don't give up on seasons like everyone else does, but even given my stupidity . . . he has a multi-year contract . . . no one with one is going to be traded. Full stop.

[TwinsGuy55422]

I would hate to see him go. But at this point, the focus has to be the future. If we can get some quality pitching talent, I would pull the trigger.

[Shane Wahl]

I guess Boston could be the one spot where a 2.5 year deal would be acceptable . . . but still doubtful. Trading for players with 1+ plus is rare, so thinking about trading for 2+ years is pretty stupid. Willingham is here into 2013 at the least.

[Highabove]

Should we keep anyone worth watching next year?

 

Who will be first in line for tickets?

 

Someone will have to pay for the 55 million dollar payroll next year.

[spideyo]

As a fan and a Target Field employee, it would really REALLY piss me off if they traded away Hammer. If I wanted to watch a bunch of young kids and washed up veterans, I'd start going to Saints games. If you want the team to contend in the future, you need to keep butts in the seats and eyes on the screen. Guys like Willingham help do that.

 

And who would you replace him with? Plouffe should NOT be starting right now, Mastroianni is a 4th OF at best. Benson, Tosoni, and Hicks are all in AA, Dinkleman is hurt, and I don't think anyone wants Clete "strikeout machine" Thomas getting another crack at starting.

[CharacterGroove]

Doubtful. He plays better than his contract and is more productive than the reasonable potential of 95% of prospects.

 

That said, anything's possible. A big market team could offer something too generous to turn down.

[Yoshii]

wtf didnt we just sign him to two years? Why would we trade him? Hes like are one good player and the core of the team right now.

[tpb8]

So a contending team desperate for RH power calls and offers a nice package. We don't move a guy who is essentially a full-time DH and 33 years old? Because some people want to buy tickets to watch him hit HRs for a rebuilding team?

[Chance]

So a contending team desperate for RH power calls and offers a nice package. We don't move a guy who is essentially a full-time DH and 33 years old? Because some people want to buy tickets to watch him hit HRs for a rebuilding team?

Kind of have to agree with this. I liked the proposed topic because I really wasn't sure what I'd do. I sure don't want Willingham to go, I look forward to his at bats and you are locked in the whole plate appearance. But at the same time if a contender is willing to part with a top prospect and maybe a couple other talents with some upside I'd like the twins to make the trade.

 

And for those complaining about not wanting to watch a game without him since we are rebuilding then don't watch at all ever. This is baseball it happens when you arent a major market team live with it and enjoy watching prospects.

[jmlease1]

Willingham has been excellent and a value buy at $7M per. Who would replace him? And what would we really get for him, even if he was on the table? A couple of A-ball pitching prospects? No one is going to be breaking down the doors for him right now, and by mid-summer you have to expect that his BA is going to settle in around .260-.270. Even with his 30-hr pop, is he going to be a guy that someone is going to part with a top prospect for? Seems unlikely. So how much of a benefit is it to deal a guy with a good contract that fills a real team need for a roll of a dice on prospects? If this were the last year of his deal, or even the 2nd-to-last, I'd consider it (perhaps be all for it), but not in year 1 of a 3 year deal.

 

There's a lot of talk right now about the Twins dealing their veteran players, but most of it seems unrealistic/foolish, and everybody wants us to get pitching. Mauer would cause a PR hit and either require taking on a bad contract or not getting good value, and we don't have a viable replacement. Morneau's injury history makes him difficult to move, and until Parmelee proves it, we don't have a full-time replacement. Span's the most easily moved, but why would we? He's in his prime, can play multiple positions in the OF, his contract is good...and we don't know yet if Revere can hit enough to take his place. (and we don't have a replacement leading off, unless Gardy defies all prior history and puts Mauer in there)

 

Flipping veterans sounds good in concept, but the reality for this team is much more problematic.

[cr9617]

You can't trade all your best players. You have to field a team. The rotation is fine, Twins are winning.

You are joking...right??

[Blake]

Oddly enough, I think the Twins have too many questions to answer before any players can be traded. For instance, Morneau really cannot be traded right now, because of injury history and lack of replacement. There are too many unknowns when it comes to the rotation at this point. (Although the bullpen problems from last year seem to have been solved) For instance, what if it turns out Walters and Diamond are serviceable big league pitchers? What about Liriano?

 

Third base is another gaping hole. And the Twins don't know if Dozier is the answer up the middle.

 

Right now, if the Twins make a move, I think it looks more like making a move just to make a move, rather than a careful assessment of team needs.

 

Obviously, if another team comes across with a deal that sends a bunch of top flight prospects for, say , Span, then I'm sure the deal would be considered.

 

Anything other than a haul of minor league players probably means the deal won't be done.

[twinsnorth49]

So a contending team desperate for RH power calls and offers a nice package. We don't move a guy who is essentially a full-time DH and 33 years old? Because some people want to buy tickets to watch him hit HRs for a rebuilding team?

A full time DH who has started 44 games in left field? People who buy tickets do need something of interest to watch, it's pretty easy to just suggest we trade away every legitimate major leaguer for prospects but it just doesn't work that way. No discredit to Hammer but I have doubts anyone is going to give away the farm to grab him anyway, he did sign with the Twins for 7 per over 3.

[Mike Sixel]

those of you saying don't trade him, how do they get better next year if they don't trade players? Look at AAA and even AA, where will any players come from, if you don't trade for them?

[twinswon1991]

You can't trade all your best players. You have to field a team. The rotation is fine, Twins are winning.

The rotation is fine????? They are worst in the league and were on record pace for futility a few days ago.

 

At this point all vets should be on the block and they should be building for 2015. Whether they win 40 or 75 games the next two years is meaningless if winning championships is the goal.

[twinswon1991]

those of you saying don't trade him, how do they get better next year if they don't trade players? Look at AAA and even AA, where will any players come from, if you don't trade for them?

Well stated. When you have no minor league talent you need to trade to acquire young talent.

[Curt]

Memo to Terry Ryan: Take all calls please.

[cr9617]

The rotation is fine????? They are worst in the league and were on record pace for futility a few days ago.

 

At this point all vets should be on the block and they should be building for 2015. Whether they win 40 or 75 games the next two years is meaningless if winning championships is the goal.

Exactly.

The could lose 100 games plus with Hammer, Span, Morneau, Mauer in the lineup. If you can't pitch, you can't win. What difference does Span and the Hammer make if you have the worst record in the league??

 

I hope the FO realizes it needs to get drastic in order to have any chance of contending in the next 3 or 4 or 5 years. I would love for them to make some forward thinking moves just once, rather than pretending they can piece together a contender with journeyman minor leaguers and washed up veterans. I HOPE they realize this....but I doubt they have the balls to think big enough.

[travistwinstalk]

I think trading Hammer would send such the wrong message to the fan base. Terry Ryan sold us that Willingham would produce equally as well as Cuddyer at a limited wage. So far he has surpassed Cuddyer in every offensive stat. So what is the point of trading him it is not like he is making crazy money. they only have 65 mil committed to 2013 so there is no need to trade him. Its like anytime the Twins get a good player some want to trade him. He is doing well so don't mess with that.

[Mike Sixel]

No, it's like this team is the worst team in baseball, and they have nothing in AAA or AA that looks like it is coming up and making a difference. Look at the FA pool for next year, and find me a 2B, SS, 3B, 3 starting pitchers....that they'll pay for and are good.

 

What message do you send the fan base if you don't make trades? That you are happy with a AAAA team? If you have another way to get talent into the system, other than trading players (and signing big time FAs just will not happen with the Pohlads and Ryan in charge), I'm all eyes.

[TwinsGuy55422]

I disagree with the concept that trading Willingham will send a bad message to the fan base. I think if the right kind of trade is made that it will send a positive message that the goal is to win a championship not just be mildly competitive to put fans in the seats.

[IdahoPilgrim]

At this point all vets should be on the block and they should be building for 2015. Whether they win 40 or 75 games the next two years is meaningless if winning championships is the goal.

The cynic and the realist in me says that "winning championships" is not the goal, at least not the true goal. The goal is to make money; baseball is a business, first and foremost. To do that, you need fans in the seats and ratings on TV. To get those, you have to win 40-45% of your games and you have to have players people like to watch. Purists will be happy to see the team blown up for the hope we can contend in 2015. The average fan isn't willing to wait that long for the Twins to be interesting. There has to be a balance between building for the future and putting a competitive team on the field today.

[cr9617]

The cynic and the realist in me says that "winning championships" is not the goal, at least not the true goal. The goal is to make money; baseball is a business, first and foremost. To do that, you need fans in the seats and ratings on TV. To get those, you have to win 40-45% of your games and you have to have players people like to watch. Purists will be happy to see the team blown up for the hope we can contend in 2015. The average fan isn't willing to wait that long for the Twins to be interesting. There has to be a balance between building for the future and putting a competitive team on the field today.

I don't disagree with this take at all. The thing is, the Average fan doesn't really understand A) How bad the situation really is How difficult it will be to get out of this box(pitching in particuliar) C) How meaningless it is to have decent veteran players on a team that loses 100 games.

 

This team needs to start thinking bigger, and the sooner they do that, the sooner we might be competetive again.

[SweetOne69]

The cynic and the realist in me says that "winning championships" is not the goal, at least not the true goal. The goal is to make money; baseball is a business, first and foremost. To do that, you need fans in the seats and ratings on TV. To get those, you have to win 40-45% of your games and you have to have players people like to watch. Purists will be happy to see the team blown up for the hope we can contend in 2015. The average fan isn't willing to wait that long for the Twins to be interesting. There has to be a balance between building for the future and putting a competitive team on the field today.

The owner's goal is to make money, for everybody else in the organization it is to win championships.

[IdahoPilgrim]

But is the situation really that desperate? Granted, starting pitching sucks on a historical level, but if one or two things go right that can bounce back quicker than people are thinking in a year or two. If either Diamond or Walters turns out to be a for-real back-end starter, if Gibson recovers well from TJ surgery (which happens more and more all the time), if we pick up 1 or 2 decent arms via free agency, the rotation is no longer a disaster - not where we'd like it, granted, but not a disaster.

 

And notice - over the last 22 games, the Twins are 11-11 - 500 ball. Are we going to contend this year? No. But I'm not assuming that 100 losses is a given. 90, probably, but not 100.

[Jim Crikket]

The people saying "trade Willingham now" are the same ones who will be back here a year from now whining about the fact the Twins have nobody who can hit the ball out of the ballpark. You don't get the best return in trades in May and when you DO trade, you trade from surplus, not from areas where you're already thin. Just saying, "there are a lot of outfielders" among the team's top prospects doesn't look deep enough. You need more than just 3-4 speedy glove-types who can't hit the damn ball out of the infield, much less over a fence. Willingham is signed for a reasonable amount for several years. You don't get in a hurry to trade away one of the few power hitters you have when it means you just have to go back in to the free agent market to buy ANOTHER power hitter, because you have none of them in your organization that are likely to be ready for the Big Leagues for 2-3 years.

 

Even IF an offer for Willingham comes through that's too good to pass up, it's not going to happen now. GMs don't get stupid until July.

[John Bonnes]

This gets to a really interesting question of just how far to go. Because there is NO QUESTION that Willingham has value right now. That contract looks downright amazing to anyone looking for a right-handed slugger. There is real value there, and not jsut to teams looking to overspend. But yesterday in Grantland on his team rankings (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7982239/no-one-able-topple-texas-white-sox-climbing-charts), Jonah Keri had an interesting note:

 

Twins fans don't need any more reminders of how bad this team has been. So let's try this: You can count the 1-3-4-5 combinations that have been better than Denard Span (.306/.362/.404), Joe Mauer (.306/.412/.422), Josh Willingham (.271/.399/.535), and Justin Morneau (.240/.304/.529) on one hand. All right, maybe two hands. Tops.

I can't tell if Keri is being facetious here, but I don't think he is, but the stats tell the story - this team still has a solid offensive core. And historically, as far as offense goes, THAT'S THE HARD PART. You might look at it and say that they just need to fill in the pieces offensively, and my gut feel is that is correct.

 

The problem is the other side. There is no starting pitching and there isn't going to be any really good starting pitching barring some miracles. And historically, as far as defense goes, THAT'S THE HARD PART. So do you tear down the half that we already are fortunate to have or do you gamble on the other side somehow coming together?

 

I suspect the consensus here is that it needs to be torn down, but that's almost always the easiest (and least interesting) choice in my opinion. One doesn't have to look any further than the Wolves or Gopher football team to realize that sometimes taking a couple steps back just means taking a couple of steps back. Or the Royals or Pirates to see how difficult it can be to build those two cores at the same time to become relevant again.