Article: Twins sign Ynoa for $800k

[cmb0252]

Darren Wolfson retweeted that the Twins signed Dalin Cuesto-C. No bonus included.

[nicksaviking]

Well I certainly like that the Twins aren't screwing around biding their time waiting to see what's left over. They had 12 months to evaluate these guys, I'm glad they're getting right to business. I like the initiative.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Throw lots of spaghetti on the wall and see what sticks vs. sign the more likely to succeed (assuming the rankings have any validity). Stay in the pool vs go over pool. Sign more less expensive guys that are lower ranked vs sign a few high ranked guys.

 

That's not really fair. The Twins have signed at least one top 30 guy several years in a row. No, they haven't signed a Sano-type player during that time but they're not out there signing 30 $100,000 or under guys every year.

[twinsfan34]

The Twins got their 2nd major signing....$450K.

 

Jean Carlos Arias, OF, L/L, 5'10'' 150.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/twins-sign-dominican-outfielder-jean-carlos-arias/

[Mike Sixel]

They have been in the top five in pool every year, and have not once signed a top five guy. Signing top 30 guys is not being aggressive, imo. You can feel differently Brock. We will not agree.

[Jeremy Nygaard]

They've also signed a Dominican C Dalin Cuesto. Cuesto will sign 17 in October. 5-11, 165. No bonus known.

 

Arias turned 16 in January.

 

EDIT: Didn't read through the whole thread, so this is a repeat.

[Steven Buhr]

While I'm glad the Twins haven't been totally cheap about the process and I'm very excited about Ynoa, the bonus pools are set up for the teams with the poor records the year prior to spend the most. With that in mind, the intention of the process is for the Twins to be getting a top 5 guy each of the past three years not a top 25 guy.

 

To you, that may be, "the intention of the process," because that's how you would choose to approach using your money.

 

However, to me, "the intention of the process," is to assure that teams with losing records have the most allotted resources to use as they see fit to use in the marketplace.

 

If the Twins look at the international market and feel that judging the potential of 15 year olds to eventually become competent MLB ballplayers is pretty much a crapshoot and, as a result, the best approach is to use their money to add a higher number of "good" players, rather than a small number of "top" prospects (with "good" and "top" being determined by a bunch of writers at BA and MLB.com), I don't think it means they are necessarily not using their money as the process intended.

[Mike Sixel]

I agree with you, SD Buhr, it is up to the teams to follow their own strategy.

[drock2190]

You win some you lose some. I was happy when they signed bigger names like Sano, Polanco and Kepler in the past years. Even though Kepler looks like he has a tough road ahead of him to make the majors, the other two look promising.

 

Imagine if the Twins signed Gregory Polanco a few years back! Twins were reported to have come in 2nd to the Pirates in the bidding. But then the Twins did get lucky when Sano picked them over the Pirates.

 

Still a fan can dream...

[Roaddog]

While it would be nice to get a Top 5 guy once in awhile, i don't mind the Twins strategy either. Not counting Sano, we have signed guys like Kepler(who i still like)Polanco, Thorpe, Diaz. I don't know if the signings are more publicized now, but you can't argue that they have made an effort to bring in talent.

[Thrylos]

The scouting reports I read about Ynoa are excellent. He does have 3 above average pitches with the potential to improve: Fastball that touched 92 (not sure about that 94 radar reading,) curve (described as hammer curve at a couple refs) at low to mid 70s and change. This is cross referenced with stories from the Dominican.

 

Yes for the wildness, but one thing is for sure that a sixteen year old will keep growing and his mechanics will change. The positive things are that he mixes pitches and can change velocities with his fastball, which at 15-16 is very advanced. The one negative I see is that (and that is not him alone, and you can actually get a taste to where that drives, from a look at the Cedar Rapids DL) he has been throwing an "above average" hammer curve. It likely made his handler a couple of extra hundred dollars, but developing a curve at early teens (has to be, because it is above average,) is borderline criminal.

[maxisagod]

... he has been throwing an "above average" hammer curve. It likely made his handler a couple of extra hundred dollars, but developing a curve at early teens (has to be, because it is above average,) is borderline criminal.

 

Same handler as his brother, who already had Tommy John's surgery.

[TwinsFanInPhilly]

12 hours into international free agency and I hear the MNTwins have agreements with 6 pitchers, 2 outfielders, 1 infielder, and 1 catcher. Darren Wolfson (@DarrenWolfson)

[Spicoli]

I like this signing. He could be really good. I just hate how we dont go after the top guys in the class. I mean look at how well it has played out for Darvish, Abreau, Tanaka....

 

The thing that sucks about being from MN is there is no salary cap in baseball and there is no way we can compete with Boston, NY, LAD.... According to Baseball Americas rankings the NYY's have signed the 7th, 6th and 2nd ranked Int'l FA's. And they got Tanaka last year. Its just so frustrating. If your a MN sports fan the only team that spends the money in FA and makes big trades is the Wild.

[DocBauer]

Prefacing my comments with a simple confession than I know absolutely nothing about the pool of international prospects available except for comments here and shared links and information.

 

From what I have read, it sure sounds like a good signing, and a very good young prospect with a world of potential, key words being young and potential. I would have some doubt that the reports of 94 are accurate. Hope they are, but even a consistent 91-92 at 16 is pretty awesome. Forget coaching and consistent mechanics, just physical growth alone should add a few ticks over the next couple of years.

 

I have to chuckle at debate and angst over top 30 rankings and where each player may sit. Unless you have a Sano-type talent, not sure how you rank 16 year old Latin country kids with any degree of accuracy. Every year right here in the good old USA you have professional scouts who hit and miss on college kids, much less 18 year olds armed with college scholarships. And the college coaches offering those scholarships miss at times as well. And some of the ones they get to come to school weren't even drafted, or were drafted in the 20's or later, and end up being top 10 round kids three years down the road. So I have to take these rankings with a full salt block, not a few grains of the stuff.

 

And even if you could get all 30 teams to actually have a consensus of a top 30 list, you'd still have 30 teams, all with at least some available money, competing for at least one of these 16 y.o. kids, and trying to project him at least a season, if not two, from even reaching short season rookie leagues here.

 

So I guess I agree with trying to put out the cash for a couple of the top projectables, quality wise, but then spreading the rest of your allotment out and around for quantity to see what might develop.

[Seth Stohs]

According to Jesse Sanchez, the Twins have agreed to sign outfielder Jean Carlos Arias for $450,000.

[Bsharpp]

I like this signing. He could be really good. I just hate how we dont go after the top guys in the class. I mean look at how well it has played out for Darvish, Abreau, Tanaka....

 

The thing that sucks about being from MN is there is no salary cap in baseball and there is no way we can compete with Boston, NY, LAD.... According to Baseball Americas rankings the NYY's have signed the 7th, 6th and 2nd ranked Int'l FA's. And they got Tanaka last year. Its just so frustrating. If your a MN sports fan the only team that spends the money in FA and makes big trades is the Wild.

 

 

Yes. It's frustrating alright. But, I still see posts on here by people who don't think there are competitive balance issues in baseball and don't see why there needs to be a salary cap. What a stupid system where the teams with the most money can buy the top international prospects. What a joke.

[twinsfan34]

Yankees signed 8 out of the top 30 prospects (according to BA)...

 

Curious how much $$$ that amounts to.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/top-30-international-prospects-signed/?sm_id=social_20140703_27185166

 

The top SS (Dermis Garcia, #1 in MLB's list) still has not signed...rumored to be $3M bonus. Yanks pool is only $1.7M.

 

So it looks like the Yankees (and possibly the Indians, Red Sox, and Rays...so far) will all be limited to not being able to sign a player for more than $300k the follow two international signing periods.

 

The Yankees have drawn a great deal of attention for their reported plans to shatter their spending limitations, but reports have also indicated that the Rays and Red Sox are willing to incur the maximum penalties as well. This year, penalties for exceeding bonus pools has changed slightly from previous signing periods. Here’s the breakdown:

• All overages are taxed at 100 percent.
  
• Exceed bonus pool by 5 to 10 percent: Team is not allowed to sign a player for more than $500K in the following international signing period.
  
• Exceed by 10 to 15 percent: Team is not allowed to sign a player for more than $300K in the following international signing period.
  
• Exceed by more than 15 percent: Team is not allowed to sign a player for more than $300K in the following two international signing periods.
  

-- courtesy of MLB Trade Rumors

 

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/07/2014-15-international-signing-period-primer.html

 

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/international-spending-rises-despite-bonus-pools/

[Steven Buhr]

I've been wondering why these teams appear so nonchalant about blowing out their pool numbers this year.

 

Is it because this year's crop of 16 year olds is considered so superior than what they typically see? No idea, but seems unlikely that it is so much better that they're better off signing several top players this year than being allowed to sign even one top player for the next two years.

 

Are they gambling that, somehow, they'll be able to get the penalties eliminated? Seems unlikely, too.

 

Whatever the thinking, it seems premature to conclude that the system isn't working just because a handful of teams were willing to far exceed their pool levels.

 

We can see the benefits of doing so immediately, but we won't witness the price they pay until next July and the July after that, when the Twins and others who are staying within pool levels will not have the Yankees and others to compete with at all for top international signings.

[Mike Sixel]

I think it is like this: I can throw money at middle guys like the Twins, year after year. Or, I can throw a bunch of money one year at the BEST guys (in my mind) and then take a year off or so. I don't think anyone is betting that the pool is gone, I think they are betting that getting 5-10 "top" guys in one year, is better than getting 20 medium guys over 3 years.

 

I really wish someone had a study about how good the rankings are......

[tobi0040]

Yes. It's frustrating alright. But, I still see posts on here by people who don't think there are competitive balance issues in baseball and don't see why there needs to be a salary cap. What a stupid system where the teams with the most money can buy the top international prospects. What a joke.

 

 

Definitely a competitive balance issue in baseball and the only thing that will fix that is a hard cap, like hockey or football.

 

I think the two biggest issues in the game of baseball over the last 10-15 years are the lack of a cap and PED's. The union should get the lions share for the blame on both issues. Not all the blame, but they were the biggest reason why a cap does not exist and why it took so long for drug testing to be a reality.

[tobi0040]

I think it is like this: I can throw money at middle guys like the Twins, year after year. Or, I can throw a bunch of money one year at the BEST guys (in my mind) and then take a year off or so. I don't think anyone is betting that the pool is gone, I think they are betting that getting 5-10 "top" guys in one year, is better than getting 20 medium guys over 3 years.

 

I really wish someone had a study about how good the rankings are......

 

I am guessing the Yankees thought this class was much better than the next two will be and this was their strategy going in. It kind of reminds me of the loophole they exploited in the off-season when they signed CC, Teixera, and Burnett. All would have separately yielded a first round pick but because they signed all three in the same off-season they only had to give up a first, second, and third rounder instead.

 

If you are the Yankees and your bonus pool is not very large, the "penalty" for going 10-15% over and the penalty for going $30M over are the same. So that is why you see them in on all the top guys and my guess is they land the #1 guy as well. Just another loophole they have found.

[Mike Sixel]

None of these are loopholes, they are the rules.

[tobi0040]

None of these are loopholes, they are the rules.

 

They are rules, but my guess is when they were set in place MLB did not anticipate how teams can navigate them to their advantage.

[ScottyB]

Yankees signed 8 out of the top 30 prospects (according to BA)...

 

Curious how much $$$ that amounts to.

 

 

Here's what they've spent so far:

 

Nelson Gomez, IF $2.25MM (#2 Prospect)

Wilkerman Garcia, SS $1.35MM (#14 Prospect)

Dermis Garcia, SS $3.2MM (#1 Prospect)

Miguel Flames, C $1MM (#25 Prospect)

Juan De Leon, OF $??? (#5 Prospect)

Hyo-Jun Park, SS $1.1MM (#13 Prospect)

Jonathan Amundary, OF $1.5MM (#7 Prospect)

Antonio Arias, OF $.8MM (#8 Prospect)

 

That's 8 of the top 25 prospects (5 of the top 10) at over $11MM so far. Clearly the penalties are not nearly enough. The Yankees are expected to spend over $30MM with the 100% overage tax. It makes me sick. Maybe if the overage tax was 10,000% it would be fairer.

[Monkeypaws]

One can only hope that some anemic looking 14 year old kid from the DR has a huge growth spurt this year and suddenly hits 95 on the gun as a 15 year old, and can hit baseballs 500 feet. The Yankees will wail and gnash their teeth.

[Dman]

Definitely a competitive balance issue in baseball and the only thing that will fix that is a hard cap, like hockey or football.

 

I think the two biggest issues in the game of baseball over the last 10-15 years are the lack of a cap and PED's. The union should get the lions share for the blame on both issues. Not all the blame, but they were the biggest reason why a cap does not exist and why it took so long for drug testing to be a reality.

 

I agree. Only in baseball are Aces up your sleeve and loaded dice allowed. Most definitions of cheating would include some type of unfair advantage over the competition (i.e. more money to spend to get the best talent) in baseball cheating effectively is allowed. Incredibly even though teams have financial advantage buying a world series has proved somewhat elusive.

 

The players union in baseball will never agree to a cap because it will limit players salaries and currently the owners are making money so I guess if it ain't broke yet it won't get fixed.

[ScottyB]

One can only hope that some anemic looking 14 year old kid from the DR has a huge growth spurt this year and suddenly hits 95 on the gun as a 15 year old, and can hit baseballs 500 feet. The Yankees will wail and gnash their teeth.

 

Steve Nebraska!!!

[tobi0040]

Here's what they've spent so far:

 

Nelson Gomez, IF $2.25MM (#2 Prospect)

Wilkerman Garcia, SS $1.35MM (#14 Prospect)

Dermis Garcia, SS $3.2MM (#1 Prospect)

Miguel Flames, C $1MM (#25 Prospect)

Juan De Leon, OF $??? (#5 Prospect)

Hyo-Jun Park, SS $1.1MM (#13 Prospect)

Jonathan Amundary, OF $1.5MM (#7 Prospect)

Antonio Arias, OF $.8MM (#8 Prospect)

 

That's 8 of the top 25 prospects (5 of the top 10) at over $11MM so far. Clearly the penalties are not nearly enough. The Yankees are expected to spend over $30MM with the 100% overage tax. It makes me sick. Maybe if the overage tax was 10,000% it would be fairer.

 

Yeah, some combination of a larger tax, 5-10 year penalty instead of two, or how about an actual draft with slotting? Conceptually it makes no sense to me why we have different sets of rules for US and foreign born players. It makes less sense to me that the rules actually favor foreign players over US born players. Had Stephen Strasburg been from Europe, he could have signed with any team with no cap on his bonus.

[bird]

To you, that may be, "the intention of the process," because that's how you would choose to approach using your money.

 

However, to me, "the intention of the process," is to assure that teams with losing records have the most allotted resources to use as they see fit to use in the marketplace.

 

If the Twins look at the international market and feel that judging the potential of 15 year olds to eventually become competent MLB ballplayers is pretty much a crapshoot and, as a result, the best approach is to use their money to add a higher number of "good" players, rather than a small number of "top" prospects (with "good" and "top" being determined by a bunch of writers at BA and MLB.com), I don't think it means they are necessarily not using their money as the process intended.

 

Precisely. Their approach is balanced. It cannot fairly be described as unaggressive. It can fairly be described as strategic, especially when one keeps in mind that the outcomes, based on these BA and MLB rankings, is pretty dismal. I'm glad the Twins are playing within the system instead of cheating. It's unfortunate that the Yankees, in particular, may alter the competitive landscape in baseball for a ni=umber of years by virtue of unethical and dishonest practices.