LA Vikes Fan

What about Smeltzer making the team as an opener/5thstrater/long reliever? He seems to be having a very good spring. HE also went 3 innings last time out. Glad to see you don't have CHi Chi Gonzalez on the team. I actually think there was thought that he cold be a #5 starter. They're actually stretching him out and he started against ATL. God help us if he gets any time on the big league level...

I live in LA and turned on the 11 pm Pacific time version of Sports Center on ESPN when they announced the move by teasing the announcement at the beginning. I actually stayed up to watch until about 15 minutes in the show to make sure I had heard it right. I then checked the sports websites to be sure ESPN wasn't pulling my leg and checked again in the morning to make sure it was actually happening. I'm still curbing my excitement until I read that Correa has actually put pen to paper and shown up at Spring Training. Good stuff. Now go get Montas.

Two really great qotes in that article. The first is from Polanco saying we are going to be a really good team. That’s buy in from your BEST player and a guy who can lead the others. You start there and now this team is going to expect to win, not just hope they can win. Second is from Lewis saying he’s not upset but it would be a different story if he was on the big league team. That’s a guy who wants to OWN the shortstop position and thinks that he’s good enough to play with the likes of Carlos Correa. That’s the kind of guy you want as your best prospect. It’s amazing how getting a player like this can improve the outlook and attitude of your entire team. Now, let’s get a pitcher!

This is unbelievable! I live in LA and was just getting ready to go to bed late last night when this came across my phone. I have to congratulate the FO on this. Now the Donelson deal makes sense. Yes, we still need at least one good starting pitcher and probably one decent to good reliever to make this work but at least there’s hope. As for the lineup, I have a slightly different take: 3B Arraez CF Buxton 2B Polanco SS Correa LF Kiriloff DH Urshela IB Sano RF Kepler C Jeffers By the way, I think there are two more moves coming. One is to trade prospect capital for a starting pitcher either with the A’s, Marlins, or maybe even the Reds. The second is to sign another outfielder to either start in left field or be the fourth outfielder. I think that Michael Conforto, Kevin Pillar, and Tommy Pham are all still available and I’m guessing prices are starting to come down since they haven’t yet landed that contract. May not happen, but after last night a guy can dream….

Amazing! I just heard the news on ESPN SportsCenter here in LA. I’m shocked! Now get a starting pitcher and this is starting to make sense.

Detroit is singing Michael Pineda. Another possible starter bites the dust. I hope this trade with the As thing is real...

We wouldn't actually start the season with Garlick, Rooker or Cave in LF, would we? Please, Dear God no. Cave and Rooker belong in AAA, and Garlick is at most a RH part of an outfield platoon and only then if there is a decision to play a younger, breaking in LH hitter in LF that we want to take some pressure off of. I pity the team that has any of those 3 guys on the opening day roster with an intent to play them any significant amount of time. Kirilloff is in leftfield. Sano is the 1st baseman. If you want to pair Miranda with those 2 in kind of an overall platoon where he is to play a couple days a week to break in, okay, but not the other 3 chumps. The DH spot is a rotation that includes off days for people plus Gary Sanchez. Any of those 3 getting any significant playing time would be enough for me to lose a little hair I have left.

Guys, I think we're in the same place with these deals that we were Monday. If the trade of Donaldson, IKF and Rotvedt freed up payroll that we spend on Story, someone like him, or helps us extend a Montas type to a 3-4 year deal after trading for him, the Yankees trade makes sense. If we wind up with what we have now, the trade doesn't make much sense other than lowering payroll. Ben Rotvedt is a glove first 2nd or 3rd string catcher IF he improves his hitting. Right now, he's AAA depth and unlikely to be more unless he hits better. He's not the issue. The issue is we need another Starting Pitcher and a SS. It's starting to look more and more like those 2 are tied together in the sense that Story may not want to come to the Twins unless and until they sign another quality Starting Pitcher because he's tired of being on a losing team. I don't know that he has a lot of other options but it does strike me that Houston has an opening at shortstop and I suspect others might have an interest. Whether or not trading our prior 3rd string catcher, aging 3rd baseman on the downside of his career but still a quality player for the roughly 100 games year he can actually play, and a decent but not great shortstop we had for a day in return for a decent but not great 3rd baseman and a backup catcher/DH who hits home runs but strikes out too much was a good idea depends on the next step. I went to the garage and found my torch and pitchfork but I haven't yet looked for or found the lighter. In another few days I'll find the lighter. In another week to 10 days I'm ready to storm the castle but not until then.

Bryant's contract may just have pushed Story to a higher number that the Twins won't pay. I am now less optimistic that he will sign with us. Also, the addition of KC and the NYY (among others) into the mix for Montas and Maneaa coupled with the reds saying Castillo and Mahle won't be traded makes me less optimistic that we will trade for another starter. Michael Pineda may be our best shot and we'll have competition there. We may be looking at the Twins roster going forward this year. Ugh. By the way, what is up with Colorado? They won't re-sign Story and give Bryant a $182m contract. Huh?

I'm in. I also subscribe to the Athletic and read their comments after the articles. Not only are the article here just as good as they are there, the quality of the commentary here is much better than the noise in the comments there. I learn a lot and it's a fun group of guys to talk Twins with - knowledgeable, friendly, and informed. Kind of like talking to your brother or to a good friend over a beer or, in my case, a scotch. This is a great site and deserves our support. By the way, I see the subscription comes with a ticket to the Winter Meltdown. I live in LA now, and no offense guys, the chance of me coming back to Minnesota in mid-winter are somewhere close to the chances of me dating a supermodel. Hey, it could happen. If you want to, give the ticket to somebody fun and expand the group.

I agree with farmerguychris completely. Trevor Story is a good player, maybe a great player but at least a good player. He plays a position of need. We now have a chance to get him by freeing up payroll from paying Donaldson on the downside of his career. Analysis over. Try to sign Trevor Story and even be willing to overpay a little necessary to get him. You now have a shortstop for the next four or five years. Lewis and Martin (I had to avoid saying Martin and Lewis to avoid thoughts of Laugh In, or do I have that backwards? )? Both are interesting players, and great prospects. They are not in the way of signing Trevor Story and should not really be a consideration. If they make it as shortstops, great trade chips or stars with Story being traded. If they movedto another position and excel? Same analysis, different names. The idea that signing Story to a multiyear contract is in any way impacted by their timelines is simply poor roster management. Adding real talent to the roster at a position of need is almost never a bad idea. Story is real talent. We can find a place for Lewis and Martin when and if the time comes.

I just saw that the Reds (!) traded Amir Garrett for Mike Minor. The trade makes no sense from the Reds standpoint; they let Wade Miley go on waivers and he's better than Mike Minor with almost exactly the same salary for the same term. Amir Garrett actually has some value so why treating him for a guy is worse than someone you could have simply kept? I have this sneaking suspicion: this is the front and of a trade with the Twins. We are going to get my Minor and somebody else, hopefully a starter but may be a reliever, in return for prospects. The Royals would never trade Minor to us directly since were in the same division. Not sure if I like this idea or not, but I think this may be in the cards.

I agree and would add in Castillo or Mahle from the Reds to the list of pitchers who could make this all come together. Sign Story, trade for one more starter, trade for Lou Trevino from the As, and find one more RP. We fill LF internally and now you have a team.

Here's a question: is a starting infield of Arraez/Miranda at 3B and Urshela/Gordon at SS better or worse than last year's combination of Donaldson and Simmons? Before you react, add in the factor of durability and games played. When you do that, I don't think it's that big a drop off if even much of a drop-off at all. The SS defense suffers but the 3B defense is probably just as good or better since Donaldson had no range and that certainly wasn't getting any better this year. Add in the fact that these guys are likely to be available to play most of the year whereas we would be lucky to get 90 games a year at 3B out of Donaldson. The offense gets much better it shortstop while there may be a small downgrade at 3rd base but again, not huge given that you're only getting 80-120 games out of Donaldson even if he DHs a good part of the year. On balance, I do think it's a small downgrade because of the shortstop defense but I don't think it's a very big downgrade. The point of this is not that the Twins should pocket the $25 million a year they just saved by moving Donaldson's contract. My thinking is we should spend that money but I don't think we have to spend it all on a shortstop like Story. I think it would be just as smart to trade for a guy like Sean Maneaa, Frankie Montas, Tyler Mahle, or Luis Castillo, and then use the money to extend their contracts out at 15 – $20 million a year for 2 or 3 years. As far as SS goes, Jonathan Villar is still available for that stopgap role. Another way to look at this would be to basically trade Donaldson's contract for a combination of Villar to play short, Pineda to pitch in the rotation, and a relief pitcher like Archie Bradley or Mychal Givens. Now maybe we have gotten better even if we don't sign Trevor Story. Add in a trade of prospects for Amneaa, Montas, Mahle or Castillo and I do think it's a viable strategy. My thinking is there a lot of ways still to go make the team better for this year and beyond including signing Trevor Story or something like outlined above. If we do nothing more? Then I think it's time to get out the pitchforks and torches and storm the castle. I do have my torch handy, but I'm not going to light it for at least 2 or 3 weeks to see how the rest of this puzzle plays out.

I think this is a good take. When you sign these aging stars in their 30s you wind up paying for the back end years where they won't be worth the money (see Pujols, Albert). We unloaded those years on the Yankees. I do agree with those who say that this makes the FO look bad for signing Donaldson 2 years ago when they clearly overestimated whether the twins had an open "window" to compete. Having said that, at least they were smart enough to cut bait when the time came.

While I’m not sure I like this trade, or even that I completely understand what’s going on, I don’t think I agree with some of the comments here about where we gotten weaker and where we’ve gotten stronger. Can you put everything you’ve done together, I think we are weaker at catcher, stronger in the rotation with the addition of Sonny Gray, a little bit weaker but not much at third base since Urshela Is a better fielder than Donaldson, similar but not quite as good a hitter, and substantially less injury prone. We also now have some payroll flexibility to either sign someone like Trevor Story or trade for a pitcher that either has a good size salary or can be extended. As we sit, we definitely have a black hole at shortstop so one has to assume we’re going to do something to resolve that. Truly bizarre. I think we’re basically halfway through the novel and still in suspense because we can’t figure out the ending. All I can say is I certainly hope we don’t end up here.

i agree that we need pitching but there's three things wrong with this statement. First, Garver by himself wasn't going to get us established MLB pitching. He could only have been the veteran part of a trade that also saw us give up a real pitching prospect. We aren't going to get real controllable major league pitching for a guy like Garver or even for Garver plus Sano. Real MLB ready pitching is going to cost us a guy like Garver PLUS a Martin, Lewis, Caterino, Winder, etc. Second, we got pitching; a guy that Fangraphs likes and who could be in the bullpen as early as this year or in the rotation/bullpen next year. That's the kind of pitching a 31 year old C who hits well but only plays 80-100 games a year if things are good is worth. Third, we don't have "a bunch of shortstops", we now have ONE SS and its the guy we just traded for. I really like Garver and hate the fact that we traded him. Still, we got a guy who is a real MLB SS for the next 2 years at least, and maybe a decent pitcher to go with him. It seems like a fair trade between a team that wants to compete NOW, the Rangers, and a team that may be a year away, the Twins. I think it's defensible move and may actually be a win-win. I'm not a huge fan of this FO either but this trade isn't the reason to hate them; it's actually a good move.

Baseball lost because it lost the TV audience. It lost for 2 reasons (1) baseball can't make fans care about a "national" game, and (2) it can't make the game exciting enough. I like both baseball and football. I'll watch a football game between two teams I don't follow because it's exciting entertainment with plenty of action, with interesting comments by the announcers, and because football does a good job of explaining the game and context. Baseball tried a national game for awhile. it seemed to always be the Yankees and the Red Sox, and I still have nightmares of Dustin Pedroia adjusting his gloves after every pitch "to focus his concentration" after the Yankees had a deliberate strategy of "working the count" to get to the bullpen. 3.5 to 4 hour games with maybe 30 minutes of actual action. It may be that baseball just inherently isn't good TV, although I have seen some good TV baseball. The game as now played is death on TV, and that's if you care about the teams playing. If you don't, it mind numbing ennui commentated by guys talking about "the good old days" or stories about where they went to dinner. The NBA has more irrelevant mediocre matchups than any sport outside of college basketball and it's better on TV than baseball for the casual fan. Add the lack of availability and streaming and you have one completely incoherent media strategy. Baseball's inability to adapt to media like TV and streaming is why it's 4th instead of 1st and soon heading to 5th or 6th.

I also have issues with both sides too numerous to list here, but I am amazed how poorly MLB/the owners are handling this negotiation. They seem to have a complete tin ear from a PR standpoint and also appear to have little real interest in a resolution that doesn't include the MLBPA making some significant concessions. I'm now starting to realize that this "negotiation" is going to stretch into the regular season unless someone takes control that actually has some business sense. Manfred is not that guy. Monfort's comment if he was quoted accurately both amazing and not amazing at the same time. I'm a lawyer and litigate business cases for companies and wealthy entrepreneurs. I almost NEVER allowed my clients to speak directly to the other side about settling the case. Why not? Because most of them start out with the unbreakable sense that they are the truly aggrieved party and if everybody just understood how truly aggrieved they really were, they would instantly agree and the case would be over. Guess what? Both sides think they are the truly aggrieved party and telling the other side you are the only aggrieved one doesn't help, it makes things worse and marks you as a narrow minded, unthinking idiot. That's why you let the lawyers do the talking. Here, MLB should have a chief negotiator who actually does the union negotiations for a living do all of the talking, not a Billionaire owner who does not regularly negotiate union contracts. Add to that the fact that Monfort runs what is perhaps the most ineptly run of all the current MLB franchises and I am appalled that he is let anywhere near a union negotiation committee, much less the chairman of that committee. Who makes these assignments? There has to be at least one MLB owner that actually understands union negotiations, the necessary PR in negotiations, and actually could add value to the discussions. Monfort absolutely is not that guy, This is incredibly painful to watch. I'll continue to interact with you guys on baseball substance because you are knowledgeable and very fun to talk baseball with, but I'm done with these negotiations. A pox on both of their houses. We are watching the slow and continued disintegration of baseball as an important force in the American life.

Let's start with the facts; Polanco is at best an average fielding SSS, Arraez at best a slightly below average fielding 2B. Polanco is a very good hitting MI, Arraez hits RH pitching well, LH pitching not so well, good OBP, no power. We don't have another SS on the roster and a trade likely will cost us more than we want to give up. Story is still available and could be within budget but will cost us a contract that runs several years and paying him means no more pitching signings or at most Pineda on a team freindly deal. My solutions in rank order - (1) sign Story, make Arraez and Donaldson a 50/50 3B/Dh combo, Sano plays 1B, Kirilloff LF. Re-sign Pineda, budget now gone, roll with the young pitchers for a year. Miranda starts on the 26 man, Martin in AAA, both get ABs for rest and injury. (2) Sign Simmons back on a 1 year deal (or someone similar), sign Rondon and Pineda, everything else the same. (3) Make Gordon the everyday SS, promote Polacios or Martin to be SS competition, everything else same as #2. (4) Move Polanco to SS, Arraez to 2B and Martin and Miranda get ABs for the 60-80 games that Donaldson is too hurt to play in the field and the 40-60 that Arraez can't physically play in the field. DH spot gets clogged finding ABs for Garver, Donaldson, Arraez, Sano since ABs are going to an unproven everyday SS. Numbers 1 and 2 mean we probably win 76-88 games this season and possibly contend for the last playoff spot but most likely miss. Numbers 3 and 4 mean 70-82 wins and no meaningful games in September but better long term development of some young guys. None of these are exciting. Pick your poison.

Interesting take, but we need to leave Polanco where he is. We're trying to develop a contending team. Polanco is an elite 2B for a contending team, good with the glove, very good at the plate. Don't mess with that. Boring as it sounds (and is), we need to get good fielding SS to help out a developing pitching staff. Simmons might be the best choice for another year, Niko Goodrum or Igelsias might also work. I understand wanting to open up a spot for Arraez but let's not forget that his physical limitations and injury history suggest that he's a 400-500 AB guy at best. He's not a 140-150 games a year player. Plenty of spots for his bat starting with 80 games a year at 3B since Donaldson is a half time player in the field because of HIS physical limitations. Add 20-25 when Polanco plays SS to spell whoever starts there and another 20 at DH and you've hit Arraez' limit. And that's without giving him any games in LF. You don't need to move Polanco to a position he can't play well to get Arraez his 400-500 ABs. Now if the goal is to get ABs for Miranda or Martin THIS YEAR, the solution is different - trade Donaldson or Sano. The former opens up 3B, the latter LF since Kirilloff can then play 1B. You can't DH Sano a lot because we need the DH spot for Donaldson half time and he's the #4 hitter. To me, if we want to open up a spot for regular at bats for Miranda and/or Martin, trading Sano or Donaldson is the answer. That opens up LF for one of them to run with a spot. I hope the FO is exploring that as we speak.

At the risk of repeating what others have said, this is not a yes or no question. There is no reason for the Twins to declare Arraez as somehow "untouchable" in a trade, nor is there any reason to give him away to open up a spot for others. He has value to the Twins on the field next year. He may have more more value to the Twins as a trade chip because there is the chance that we could combine him with either high end hitting prospect or slightly lesser pitching prospect and potentially get a quality starter. A quality starter does not mean a number 1 starter, more like a 2/3. Getting a 1/2 means trading Arraez and 2 high end hitting prospects or a high-end hitter and high-end pitching prospect. I would do the former for a quality pitcher like Sonny Gray if we can extend him so we have at least 2-3 years of control. I would do the latter at if the return was someone like Chris Bassett from Oakland, but only if we also extend him at least 2 years past his present one year remaining, or if we get a younger pitcher like Lopez or Sanchez from the Marlins plus a solid MLB ready pitching pitching prospect like Meyer. Otherwise, we keep Arraez. By the way, to those of you suggesting the solution is to move Polanco back to short and put Arraez in as the everyday 2B, clears dear God don't let the FO hear you. Polanco is a great hitting, solid fielding 2nd baseman, even All-Star game worthy. He is a lousy fielding, injury prone shortstop whose bat takes a hit when he has to play SS. Even worse, Arraez is average at best at 2nd base so now we have a below average fielding middle infield behind a bunch of young, kid pitchers trying to transition to the major leagues. Moreover, any FA starter is not going to come to a team that has a lousy fielding middle infield since it will make that pitcher look bad. To me, that is a recipe for a disaster. Assuming we do not trade Arraez, Polanco needs to stay at 2nd base and Arraez can get his 500 bats at the DH, 3B, and occasionally at the 2B spots. The team then needs to sign a quality defensive shortstop and frankly not really care whether the guy can hit.

Reload, don't rebuild, but acknowledge that the 'reloading" process will probably take more than one year. The core lineup is pretty good, maybe even very good if we can find a SS, and its got about a 3, maybe 4 year window left (except for Donaldson). We missed out on the FA pitchers but can still get a good starter or two in the trade market if we are willing to sacrifice some assets. We should be, particularly hitting assets. How do we do this? I say we trade for a starter we can either have for 2-4 years (Lopez in Miami, Mahle in Cincinnati) or one we can extend (Bassitt in Oakland, Gray In Cincinnati) but ONLY if we can extend to get a total of 2-4 years, and re-sign Pineda for 2 years. That leaves 2 starting spots for the young guys, 3 once Bundy washes out, and we use 2022 as the evaluation year. We hope to get 1 or 2 young guys that can pitch consistently 150 plus innings and hold down the 3 or 4 spots in 2023 out of 2022 and by 2024 have at least 3 of out home grown guys starting and Maeda back, one of which is hopefully in the #2 hole. Bassitt (my choice if we can extend him) or Lopez hold down the top of the rotation. We're semi-competitive in 2022 (78-85 wins), 85 plus in 2023 and hopefully up from there. Who do we sacrifice? It's going to have to be someone pretty good and I would consider trading ANY of our hitting prospects for the right pitcher - yes, that includes Miranda, Martin and Lewis even in combination with Kepler, Sano or Arraez if we get the right pitching back. That's my idea of a reload. Did we miss a chance to do something like this in the FA market without sacrificing assets? Absolutely. The bottom line is that not a lot of high end pitching free agents want to come to Minnesota with the uncertainty in the rotation, lack of outside income opportunities, and lousy weather. We got to grow out own.

The best young corner OF ready for the MLB player in the organization is Miranda. He needs a place to play next year and has played some OF. The problem is that there's no place for Kirilloff to play every day with Sano, Donaldson and Arraez on the roster. Those 3 have 1b and 3b covered so we can't even move Sano back to 3B to give Kirilloff 1B. I think Kiriloff is the opening day LF next year and stays there for at least 1 season. The rest of that group doesn't look like much except for Larnach.

The real problem is that our lineup and our pitching staff aren't on the same cycle. The lineup is good enough to to compete now and could be really good if Larnach, Miranda, Martin or Contreras steps up to be a competent or better hitter next year. The pitching that we have is at least a year or two away from what is needed by a competitive team. That lack of synchronicity is the root problem. So like many here, I think the answer is to decide which way you want to go. If you want to compete NOW, you have to either (1) sign Rondon and Pineda at a minimum AND add to the bullpen or (2) trade for at least 2 established starters or one plus a real prospect and sign Pineda. Option number 1 means trading real pitching or hitting prospects, probably pitching ones. Option 2 is to decide to rebuild or re-tool for a year or two and see what your existing pitching prospects can do. If you do that, there's no real reason to keep Donaldson or Garver because of age, and maybe the same for Sano and Kepler although less so, Those guys are all available for trade, and you would consider trading Arraez for the right return. All trades are of veteran players with a A ball lottery types and concentrating on getting a younger, controllable player at SS or or for pitching. The worst strategy is number 3 - just run the lineup back and "hope" that the young pitching can step up this year or next and fill all of those holes. Very unlikely. Frankly, I could get behind either strategy 1 - compete now and take the risk of trading away prospects who become stars for other teams, or 2 - 2022 as a re-tool/rebuild year, 2023 as maybe the same or starting to compete with the "window" being 2024 and beyond. I just can't stomach option 3, which is frankly just more of the same thing that didn't work in 2021.