LA Vikes Fan

All good. By the way, can you believe the lineup that moron Rocco is putting out for tonight? I could do better with a dart board! And I bet he pulls Mahle after for five innings just because he's gone through the lineup twice. He needs to get his head out of the computer and actually watch the game for a change! We're doomed.

I'm not as negative as the last two posters but I do agree that these next 3 series are pretty critical. We have 3 against the LAA, 3 at home vs. KC, and 4 at home vs. Texas. All sub .500 yet all dangerous. We need to go 6-4 minimum, 7-3 or better realistically. I also agree that he injuries have just killed us. I think the plan was to contend for and maybe get a playoff spot this year as we built the team for "real" contention next year. The hope at the beginning of the season was that the 2022 lineup would have some combination of Miranda, Lewis, Kirilloff and Larnach getting the necessary experience so they could be the 4-7 spots in the batting order in 2023 after Arraez, Polanco and Buxton.. Now, we'll be lucky to have Miranda there plus Larnach, with Lewis and especially Kirilloff complete questions marks. That means another year we have to rely on guys like Kepler and Urshela who otherwise should be the 4th OF and gone respectively. This was the year Ryan, Ober, Winder and Paddack would be making their bones in the starting rotation and be solid to good pieces next year. So far Ryan is it, with Ober maybe coming back so the best case scenario is that those 2 are the 3 and 4 starters next year. That meant we had to trade some prospects to get Mahle - great move, by the way - and will probably need to keep Archer or Bundy, or maybe even both, to get a competitive rotation for 2023. Still, I remain optimistic. I say that the 2022 Twins somehow slip into the playoffs, win a home series against Tampa or Toronto, and then get blown out by Houston. Hey, a guy can dream, right?

By the way, is it wrong for me to secretly hope that Bundy suffers a non-career threatening yet season ending injury so Aaron Sanchez can take his spot? it probably is . . .

I like your style Rosterman. I think 30-22 is doable and gets us in.

C'mon, that was funny. I'm in my "early" 60s, 15 lbs overweight, and can barely walk 3 or 4 miles in a row. But I think Byron Buxton is dogging it, should return his paycheck, and should just put on his big boy pants and play! These kids today, with the hair and the music... Sometimes we get a little too serious about this stuff. I have to tell you if someone had come to me in February and told me I can can make you a deal so the Twins will be over .500 and in real contention in August, i would have said "where do I sign"? I don't know about you guys but this season has been actually fun even after they came out here a got their butts kicked by the Dodgers. I'm enjoying the ride.

You forgot baserunning, but I guess we only get to identify 3 weaknesses.

Agree we got to do something to help this roster. Beckham can't hit and doesn't bring a lot of defensive value. Understand the thinking, he hit in AAA so maybe he would hit in the bigs. Turned out to be wrong. Replace him with Palacios, play Palacios 1-2 days a week at SS with Correa DHing 1 and sitting 1. IL either Kepler or Buxton for 10 days depending on how much you think Buxton can play. Whoever goes misses 3 against LAA, 3 against KC, and 3 of the 4 against Texas. Replacement is either Helman or Contreras. Consider an option/DFA for Cave - nice story but we're back to the same old thing with his 3 SOs last night, 7 SOs in last 25 ABs - and bring up the other of Helman or Palacios. Bring up Aaron Sanchez, either to pitch long relief or start in place of Archer, DFA Pagan. Up - Palacios, Helman, Contreras, Sanchez. Down or Il - Pagan, Cave, Beckham, and either Buxton or Kepler. I may be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic but may give us a spark.

Great question. Here's another - why is Tim Beckham on the roster? He can't hit and doesn't bring a lot of defensive value. understand the thinking, he hit in AAA so maybe he would hit in the bigs. Turned out to be wrong. Replace him with Palacios, play Palacios 1-2 days a week at SS with Correa DHing 1 and sitting 1.

I am an optimist by nature, probably a bit too optimistic.

Agreed, but who? The AAA cupboard is bare. Best hitters are Helman and Palacious. Maybe Contreras comes back when he is eligible on 8/16? I'm with you but I just don't see any options.

Agreed, but who do you call up to take his place? The best hitters at AAA are Helman and Palacios and neither is burning up the league. Contreras didn't do much with the Twins and he can't come back until 8/16 since he was sent down on 8/6. Beckham and Cave were the best two hitters in AAA and they aren't much in the Bigs. It may be that Buxton as a DH twice a week is the best alternative.

I think the point is not to panic just because we've been caught by Cleveland or got blown out by the Dodgers. I live in LA and the Dodgers have now won 9 in a row by a combined score of 62-13. They are stacked. Losing to the Dodgers is no shame. Ask the Padres. The Dodgers blew them out 3 times a row. Closest score was 4-0. The fact we've lost ground in the Division is a little more concerning, We've essentially been a .500 team since late May. We haven't really clicked on all cylinders for awhile. I still think winning the division is the best and probably the only way in and that will only happen if we do and go on a .600ish kind of long term streak. Frankly we didn't really have the pitching to pull that kind of streak off before. I think we may have have that kind of pitching now. The schedule eases after tonight and really eases up after 9/10. I think we'll find out soon enough if this group can pull things together.

I share everyone's feelings about Sano. Some real hope, following by a roller coaster of emotions leading to a disappointing ending. I do hope that Miami gives him a chance. Playing for Rowson in a warm weather city is his best chance of regaining whatever he has left. I feel for the guy but he has no place on the Twins.

I wasn't very clear; I was trying to say pitchers that go into the 7th. That should have been 6+ innings, not 7+. I do think those pitchers exist. In fact, I think Mahle may be one of them, particularly against weaker opponents.

Interesting head to head predictions. I think they split with the Dodgers since the Dodgers will be running out a AAA starter on Wednesday. I'd like to think they will go 4-2 against the Angels instead of the predicted 3-3. I think your 6-3 against KC may be optimistic but I'll go with that and I'll go with either 3-0 against the Tigers, 6-3 against the Pale Hose, or 2-2 against the Yankees. Bottom line: 90-72. Win the Central, open up against Tampa Bay, win that series 2-1, and then lose to Houston in 6 games.

I agree with the premise of the article but disagree with the comments that this is somehow the manager's fault or that the FO hasn't tried to deal with these issues. The reality is that the Twins have about 80-85% of the players necessary for a championship contender. We are short at least (1) a true workhorse starter who can consistently give us 7+ innings a game, (2) another middle of the order bat that can be a consistent run producer (that's more due to injury than anything else), and (3) sufficient bullpen depth, including a shut down left-handed relief pitcher. If you look at the statistics, you can understand why Rocco is not letting our starters have that 3rd trip through the order; all of them, repeat all of them, have consistently poor results that 3rd trip through. Even Ryan. Gray has always been that way. You could try to develop younger pitchers like Ryan by giving him that 3rd trip through but that may be at the expense of a few wins over the course of the season. I think the front office made the right move picking up Tyler Mahle to try to give us that 7+ inning pitcher. Time will tell if he can actually do that. The lack of a middle of the order band is I think the bigger problem because it puts too much pressure on the 4 or 5 solid offensive guys we have and over time their performance suffers as a result. To me, this was the one thing we didn't get at the trade deadline that we should have. Thank goodness for the development of José Miranda and the emergence or career year of Nick Gordon because without them we would really be in trouble offensively. I do think the FO did a good job strengthening the bullpen at the deadline and made the right call with Tyler Duffey. I would frankly like to see them make the same call with Pagan but I understand the irresistible lure of his talent. He at least has the basic talent to be a successful pitcher, something Duffey unfortunately no longer has. There are at least attacking this weakness and the return of Maeda in the bullpen could really help if that happens. I think our record is very reflective of our talent level and I think Rocco has done a good job of maximizing the production of the players he has. I think the bottom line is that were just short a little bit on the talent side so it requires us to have guys do more than there really capable of to be successful. I frankly think the injuries to Larnach and Kirilloff in particular really hurt us by depriving us of that guy that could hit in the number 5 or 6 hole and really lengthen in the lineup. Guys like Kepler, Sanchez, Urshela, Celestino, and now Cave are nice players to have if they hit 7 through 9 order where occasional offensive contributions can be enjoyed. The problem is we don't have enough hitters so all of a sudden Gordon has to hit 5, Buxton has to play when he really should be on the IL, Polanco doesn't get the chance to heal his back, and the team winds up counting on guys like the 4 mentioned above to be run producers. They aren't and probably never will be(although you never know with the guys in a Celestino). The real issue is were just a little short of the players we need. That's not Rocco's fault. I don't know if he or the Front Office are average, good, or great. The one thing I do know since they got here the team is better, more competitive, more enjoyable to watch, and gives one hope that they could actually win the division and even potentially compete in the playoffs. That is a huge step up from where we were before they got here.

I think there’s a very good chance that Sanchez will get another opportunity to either start or be the long man for the Twins this season. All it takes is an IL stint for any starter in the short run and it wouldn’t surprise me if the overall plan is to replace Sands with Sanchez once the hold is over. I think he also hast to wait 10 or 15 days before he can be recalled. Same for Cotton. Frankly, I’d like either one of those guys In the bullpen the head of Pagán but I just don’t see the Twins giving up on his live arm without finding a way to get something in return. Giving his history, I am surprised that Archer has lasted this long into the season. Sanchez is his replacement at some point. Also, let’s not forget that Sanchez was essentially a Street free agent when the Twins picked him up after being released by Washington. It’s not like he’s got a lot of people clamoring for his services. Not surprising that he stayed with the one team that gave him a chance.

I do think there's something missing from this analysis that may change the conclusion. As fans, we have to rely published evaluations of minor league players. The far better evaluation tool is to look at what other teams will give up to get your minor league players. It's kind of like real estate, you can find valuations of your house all over the Internet but the real valuation is what someone will give you for that house. Here, I think the last trade deadline shows that the FO has done a good job drafting and restocking the farm system. We were able to trade 9 minor league players for a number 2 or 3 starter and a high and closer who both have significant control remaining, and a very good rental set up man. To me, that's the market saying to the Twins that "you have good minor league players". By contrast, there were several other teams looking to upgrade by trading prospects who couldn't do so because other teams did not highly value their prospects. I believe that a majority if not all of the prospects traded were drafted by this Front Office. All of that happened without trading some other guys drafted by this Front Office who potentially could have garnered even higher returns because they were so good as to be untouchable (Miranda), or were injured and/or untouchable (Larnach, Kirilloff, Lewis)., Farm systems exist for 2 reasons, not just one. The 1st is of course to provide a steady stream of low cost players to the major league club. The 2nd and almost as important reason is to provide resources so that when you are in an open intention window you can make trades for establish major leaguers without giving established major leaguers back in return. I think when you look at the totality of circumstances to me the more fair conclusion is that this Front Office has done a solid to very good job drafting the last 3 or 4 years and was able to turn those solid to very good drafts into established major league players. I think that shows a good organizational approach. We reaped the benefits of that approach at this year's deadline.

Agreed. Also, the issue may be partially mental as well as physical. He had a significant injury on his wrist. It is unlikely to ever be the same as is was before the surgery. Hopefully they can find a way to alleviate the inflammation to give him some relief. Even if they do, it starting to look like part of playing long term for him is probably going to include pain management and a willingness to play through pain, i.e., swing hard through the zone when it hurts to do so. That's a hard pill to swallow when you're 35 and trying to extend your career, even harder when you're 24 and just starting out. I agree that he should get 2nd and 3rd opinions to see if there's surgical cure or therapy regimen. I hope there is. I suspect though that his career going forward is going to include a need to play through pain and accept a pre-game regimen to allow him to play similar to what Buxton goes through. That requires him to make a mental adjustment. I hope he can.

I am too, but I still think we need another bat. We also picked up Sandy Leon to be the backup C for the next 4-6 weeks. Would like to top off the day with a trade for Ian Happ but I'm thinking that may be a bridge too far.

Happy about this trade. Add in a trade for either Mahle or Pablo Lopez and I'm a very happy Twins fan. Would even be ok with Syndegaard, Rondon or Smyly off the rental market. Would also love to see them find a way to get Josh Bell from the Nats or Ian Happ from the Cubs. With it looking more and more likely that Kirilloff is out for the year, Larnach a maybe to come back and help, Sano done, and Garlick not hitting, we need 2 middle of the order bats. Amazingly, Miranda looks like he's one of them. Let's go get another bat.

Good move, excellent one if Lopez is the guy we've seen this year going forward. Rocket arm who should really help the back of the bullpen. Even better, 2.5 years left of control. Not a rental. Povich may be a long term MLB starter, but he may not, and Cano looks like he's at best an average reliever. The 2 young guys are lottery tickets. I think a very fair trade for both teams. We get immediate late inning help during an open contention window. Sends a great message to the clubhouse that the FO believes in them and is getting some help NOW. Orioles get some immediate innings out of Cano and some possible real upside to help in their next contention window in 2024-25. Well done, FO, well done.

Polanco is arguably our most consistent, "best" hitter this year. Good in the clutch, good RBI man, good run producer. He also seems to have found a solid defensive home at 2B. His abilities also make us able to have guys like Steer as a trade chip. Frankly, I would put him in the 4 hole in the order and just leave him there for the rest of the season. He is clearly part of the core for the next 2-3 years. We're lucky to have him, and on a team friendly contract to boot.

I like the ideas, not thrilled with Syndergaard. Substitute Blake Snell even if we need to add a non top 30 prospect and I’m in.

Correct. Miranda is 23, he can improve defensively. More importantly, so far he has shown that he can hit - .280/.330/.462 in the last 30 games and better than that after his first 60 ABs or so. Guys who hit like this with power don't grow on trees. Plus, this his his first go around, chances are this will improve. AND we have 5-6 years of control. He stays unless we get a pitcher of similar quality with 4-5 years of control. Same for Kirilloff - .306/.362/.459 over the last 30 games. Those 2 are the middle of the order for 2023 and beyond. I'd trade Larnach (but only for top end starter), and I would part with Celestino, Steer, and Wallner in the right trades. I'd even think about trading Ober or Winder but not both. For me, Miranda and Kirilloff are untouchable unless the return is a quality starting pitcher with multiple years of control and that ain't happening.