LA Vikes Fan

Makes sense. Winder won't pitch again before the ASG and this lengthens the bullpen. May also explain why Ryan was lifted after 75 pitches today; he may start Sunday on a 5 inning/75 pitch leash for the traditional "all hands on deck" last game before the AS break.

I would leave Winder in the rotation for the rest of the season, recognizing that he is probably going to need at least one IL "rest" stint to keep his innings closer to 100-120 for the season. We are going to need him as a starter next year and I think that's the role in which he has thrived. I think the move when Ober is ready to rejoin the rotation after the All Star break is to move Smeltzer to the bullpen. I also think that Archer could be a real weapon in the bullpen if he would be willing to give that role a shot as a late inning guy. I don't know that he is ready for that psychologically though. If he is, when Ober is ready to come back I would put Smeltzer in the bullpen as a long man (along with Cotton), and put Archer in the late inning mix. I would then upgrade with at least one trade for quality seventh or eighth inning guy, essentially make Duran the closer, and fill on from there. You would have two multi-inning guys in Smeltzer and Cotton, one left-handed, one right-handed, and a late inning mix of Archer, Duran, someone we trade for, and Duffy. Smeltzer fills the 6th starter injury fill in role. That means that one or two of Pagan, Megill. Theilbar and Moran can't be part of the bullpen, two if you trade for someone. I think the right answer is that you try to get someone to take Pagan as part of a trade package, keep Theilbar as a lefty, and Megill and Moran are part of the St. Paul shuttle as they have options. This assumes we trade for at least one quality reliever. If we don't, both stay. If Archer isn't willing to go to the bullpen or the team really wants to keep him as a starter for future, that I would move Bundy to that role. I also think he could do well as a late inning reliever, again if he's willing to do it.

Agreed. I know Pagan has more than five years in the majors so he can’t be sent out without his consent even though he has one option remaining. Still, is there any chance he would be willing to go down to AAA now to try to figure out his issues? Frankly, at this point, either Minaya or Cano would provide more value in the middle innings. And does anyone you know when Alcalá will be back? We all agree that this bullpen needs a minimum of two more arms and it will be difficult to get much now without a significant overpay. At least if we can get him down there working on things for the next month while we have someone a little more reliable we can try to maintain for the next month. There isn’t anyone likely riding to the rescue for at least 30 days.

Famous last words, but I like this lineup with Miranda and Kirilloff in the 5 and 6 slots ahead of Sanchez and Urshela. I'd like to keep it that way. What I'd really like to see is Arraez, Buxton, Correa and Polanco in slots 1-4 in some order, Kirilloff 5, Miranda 6, Kepler 7, with the catcher and Urshela or Celestino 8 and 9. Let's give Miranda and Kirilloff a 3-4 week run in the middle of the order and see if they produce.

Do you think that Alcala or Maeda can be one or two of those pieces? It's hard for me to see the team trading enough of the prospects to get more than one high leverage arm. I think we need at least 2 more. My thought is trade for Daniel Robertson of the Cubs first. He's got playoff experience and can close well, and he's 37 so maybe one solid to good prospect can get the job done. Baseball Trade Values says either Sands or Encarnacion Strand gets you Robertson PLUS either Martin, Givens or Brandon Hughes with the Twins still on a slight overpay. Same for AJ Puk and Trevino, although they have Trevino as a negative trade value this year. One of Sands or Encarnacion Strand also gets you Bard from the Rockies. That's paying a lot but getting us what we need. I have another bizarre thought. Why not put Bundy in the bullpen and Winder as the 5th starter. Good bullpen work is either high octane controllable stuff like Duran or an ability to pitch emotional control and a high leverage mentality. Bundy has to know that he's the odd man out of the rotation at some point and probably won't get starter money next year. Put him in the bullpen and give him high leverage innings. He's been there before and may have the high leverage mentality and emotional control that appears to be lacking in Pagan and Duffy. Why not? It's worth a shot.

Also, if we believe what we read it sounds like Wes Johnson had a lot of input in bullpen usage decisions. I'm curious if he was smitten with Pagan or if it's really even Baldelli. We'll find out when Johnson leaves. This may be too much ot hope for, but does Pagan have any options left? If not, isn't it possible that he is injured, can go on the Il and then do a rehab assignment? He needs to experiment with his new grip at AAAA for awhile.

If we believe what we read, Wes Johnson has been making a lot of the bullpen decisions rather than Baldelli. Maybe this late inning love affair with Pagan will go when he goes. In any event, having him experiment with a new grip in the Majors is looking like a mistake. Does Pagan have any options let? If not, maybe an IL stint with a rehab assignment is in order. Let him close at AAA and see if he can get his mojo back. As for a replacement, what about either Winder, Sands or Ober (when he returns) as a late inning relief pitcher? Smeltzer belongs in the rotation with his performance to date. , Bundy doesn't have late inning reliever stuff, same for Archer. Maybe one of the young starters can help out.

The problem is if not Pagan, then who? It was supposed to be Duffy or Alcala but Duffy melted down and Alcala got hurt. I wonder if Tyler Thornburg can fill that role? Cotton, Thielbar, probably not on a consistent basis. We need an 8th inning guy in the worst way.

I now have "How Do You Solve a Problem Like Maria" from the Sound of Music going through my head and it won't stop. I hate you.

The idea of Enforcing the contract through a decree of specific performance is an interesting one and really depends on state law. In California where I live, you cannot get a degree of specific performance requiring an employee to continue to perform services, but you can prevent him from performing services for a competitor if there are trade secrets involved. I don’t know Minnesota law but I’m fairly confident that you cannot get a decree of specific performance requiring the employee to perform services since we have abolished slavery in this country. Having said that, you may be able to get an order that prohibits him from working for a competitor or perhaps even from working in the same industry. I could definitely see getting an order preventing him from using any proprietary information or trade secrets that are owned by the team. Hard to see how there would be any in this case though. More likely though, the most the Twins could do was sue him for any damages they suffer and it’s hard to see how those could be quantified in Court. Interesting stuff on the legal side.

I live in LA. I will pay for the shipping if you will send frozen walleye Filets to me. The Twins lineup was posted six minutes ago and here it is: 2B Luis Arraez CF Byron Buxton SS Carlos Correa RF Max Kepler 1B Alex Kirilloff 3B Gio Urshela DH Gary Sanchez LF Nick Gordon C Ryan Jeffers Interesting lineup and looks like Polanco is not ready yet. Go twins!

Guys, I think we gotten a little bit far afield. This is actually pretty simple. An important employee of the team got a job offer from another employer who more than doubled his salary and provided him an opportunity for different lifestyle. When the Twins offered to match the salary, which apparently they did, the employee still decided to go. The opportunity was now, not six months from now, not 3 months from now, not when it was convenient for his current employer, now. Had Johnson not decided to take the LSU job they would have offered it to someone else because they needed somebody for the recruiting season that starts in a week or two. It also make sense based upon the timing when their pitching coach was hired way that this all happened over the last couple of weeks at most. That's what happened. I run a law firm and we have lost people in the middle of cases, projects, etc. because they had other opportunities that they preferred. This is a fact of life in business and a possibility that is always out there. The Twins are doing exactly the right thing, you make an effort to retain the employee and if he or she decides to go, you wish them well and don't burn any bridges. This is not a betrayal by Wes Johnson. This is a common practice in the business world of an employee getting what he or she thought was a better opportunity. The reverse is also true, the Twins always had the right to fire Johnson at any time without his consent. It's just that simple. The venom against Johnson is misplaced as is the thought that the Twins were somehow too cheap to keep him.

The defensive ratings all make sense to me, except maybe for Correa who I thought was better. Urshela is average to below average defensively - he makes some spectacular plays but has limited range and boots some easy ones. Arraez isn't much of a middle infielder but we knew that already. 1B/DH is the perfect place for him. I think there are 2 changes that make the Twins better on defense AND on offense. The first is easy - Polanco comes back to play 2B and Arraez becomes a 1B/DH. By the way, has anyone else noticed that Arraez' hitting has dropped off since he went back to 2B and put more stress on his knee? Correlation is not always causation but the 2 may be related. The second is to play Miranda at 3B every day. His defense won't be much worse than Urshela and may be better and there's a good chance he's a better hitter. I know this puts Kirilloff in LF which is not ideal but I think that's a small price to upgrade 3b and get Arraez a better place to play. It also gets Kirilloff and Miranda in the batting order at 5 and 6 and we can stop with the fantasy that either Kepler, Sanchez, or Urshela is a middle of the order hitter. My lineup? Arraez 1B/DH, Polanco 2B, Correa SS, Buxton CF/DH (yes, I switched Polanco and Buxton), Kirilloff LF, Garlick/Urshela DH, Miranda 3B, Kepler RF, Jeffers/Sanchez C. Celestino and Gordon hit 9 when they play and everyone moves up one up to the spot of the guy who is sitting out. Trade Urshela as part of a package for relief pitching and bring up Palacios or Steer to be the primary IF backup. Urshela fills that job for now.

I frankly hope Cave gets his chance for redemption with another team. We've seen what he can and can't do and he's 29, 30 in December. It ain't uphill from here. Let him go be the 4th/5th OF on a below average team where he belongs. Larnach to the Il is certainly interesting. Contreras now goes when Polanco comes back and another hard decision is taken care of by an injury. When Polanco comes back he goes to 2B, Arraez to 1B, and Kirilloff to LF every day. Laranch gets 20 days (?) after recovery to rehab in St. Paul and maybe learn how to hit a slider. Kirilloff plays every day in LF, Celestino is the 4th OF, and Gordon is the 5th OF/backup SS/Super Utility. Miranda is the backup 3B/RH hitting 1B/DH. Personally, I'd rather see them give Miranda a month run as the everyday 3B since Urshela is a league average hitter and below average fielder so why not try for an upgrade? That's for another thread.

Well, that explains the losing streak. Leadoff double, Larnach can't get him over, Miranda actually does his job (if Larnach had done his), and Gordon either tries to hit a home run or can't hit high velocity. Hard to blame that on the manager; the players didn't perform. My prediction - Larnach back to AAA when Polanco is ready to come off of IL, unless Buxton goes on. I think we've seen enough to know that after a nice start this year he is back to being overmatched by MLB pitching.

Too early to say we're in free fall but not too early to see how this team is short a few key components. We need at least one more consistent starting pitcher, 2-3 solid or better relief pitchers and at least one more solid middle of the order type bat. The good news is that we may get the starter when Ober and Winder come back, and one of them could be one of the relief pitchers we need. Maeda and Alcala could be 2 more later in the season, but it's hard to know when or rely on them. We need to trade for at least one more or find them in the minors. Kirilloff and/or Miranda could be that middle of the order bat; Larnach seems less likely. Probably not something we have to get in a trade. I think the reality is that this team as presently constructed is an 80-87 win group. Could compete for a playoff spot or even the division but not much more than that. The old saw is that you play the first 1/3 of the season to see what you have, make changes in the second 1/3 to fill your holes, and play out the last 1/3 to see how you finish. We're in that second 1/3 and we need to make some changes. I hope that the FO and Rocco are up to the task because it may/will mean losing some good guys for have served the team well (Duffy, Theilbar, Gordon), trading some prospects we'd rather keep, and playing or DHing young guys over vets to see if we can upgrade the offense (Miranda and Kirilloff every day, less at bats for Urshela, Kepler and Sanchez). Should be interesting top see if they are up to the task.

You may be right, but that is the kind of thing that comes with experience. The good hitters learn that on the 50/50 balls, or even the 40/60 balls, with two strikes you just flip it foul if you can't drive it. Kirilloff needs those at bats to start making that adjustment. I think he needs to be getting 4 to 5 plate appearances per game between now and the All-Star break. He can play LF, 1B, or even DH. Of all the "young guys" on the team, he looks like he has the best chance to be that elusive number 5 hitter we so desperately need to try to get ourselves some offensive consistency.

I see a lot of complaints about Rocco not having Correa bunt and about him pitching Pagan against the stronger part of the Cleveland order in the eighth inning. I actually disagree with both of those criticisms, but have a different criticism. It just doesn't make sense to have your best hitter bunt down one run with a runner on second, particularly when the hitters behind him (Kepler, Sanchez, Urshela) are not hitting and have not shown themselves to be run producers. Having Correa hit gives us the best chance to score in that situation. Using the more experienced reliever in Pagan to pitch against the better hitters also make sense to me, although Duran may be more ready for that role as the season goes on. This isn't Rocco's fault, the front office made an ill – advised trade to try to get a young starting pitcher by giving up our best relief pitcher, then Alcala got hurt, Duffy imploded, and Stashak is gone again for the year. None of those are Rocco's fault. He is doing what he can with a shorthanded bullpen. My big criticism of Rocco is the batting order. I know I have beaten this drum probably to death, but Kepler, Sanchez, and Urshela are not nor will they ever be consistent middle of the order run producers. They should be hitting 7, 8, and 9, not anywhere near the 4, 5 or 6 spots unless there's an injury. We are an inconsistent offensive team because we cannot find guys to hit in the 5 and 6 spots that consistently drive in runs. We will struggle until we fix that problem and we know that Kepler, Urshela, and Sanchez are not the solution. I think the best thing Rocco could do for this team's offense is to move Kirilloff to the 5 hole and Miranda to the 6 hole, leaving Kepler 7, Urshela 8 and the catcher 9. Try this for a month, see if they produce. At the same time, work in Larnach some to see if he can learn how to hit a major league breaking ball since he might be a guy that could fill that 5 or 6 role, and have Garlick start and hit number 4 or 5 against any left-handed starter with Kirilloff and Miranda still in the lineup hitting 6 and 7. This is after Polanco comes back, now they move up one. When Polanco returns either Larnach goes back to AAA to work on his breaking ball hitting or Celestino goes to AAA and Gordon becomes the backup CF. We need better, more consistent run producers after the top four guys. I think there is a much better chance of achieving that result with Kirilloff, Miranda and Garlick in the 5 and 6 spots. This probably means fewer at bats for Urshela so we can squeeze Miranda in at 3B twice a week, and fewer to no DH at bats for Sanchez. I see those both these things as positives. I want to do this now because the next six weeks are when we find out who can do what, and fine tune the team for stretch drive that actually seems like it might be meaningful this year. We need to know if Kirilloff and Miranda are ready to help us in this way or not.

The rule hurts the Twins a little this year because it rewards starters who pitch deep into games and pile up innings and we only got 2 or 3 of those type of starters. We also don't have nay starters that will pitch more than 150 innings this year as they build up so we really need a a 6-7 man rotation. Bundy may be here to stay. I do think it helps baseball though by speeding up the game a little and eliminating those tiresome change pitchers every batter innings. I agree with the posters above; I'm definitely in favor. Starter depth is going to be as important as relief depth because we are going to have guys go 6+ innings when possible, so more innings, more injuries, more IL stints. Get ready for more starts by Bundy, and guys like Bundy, along with some AAAA guys getting their shot. Should be fun.

Why is Sanchez the DH? It sure seems like either Miranda or Larnach would have been a better choice. I know it's easy to say after he has looked bad for 3 at bats but in my defense, I did think about that when I saw the lineup. I really would like to see Kirilloff and Miranda back to in back the number 5 and 6 holes. I know it's risky but I really do think that's our best lineup. Move Kepler back to 7 or 8, 2 spots behind Kirilloff and hit Urshela after Kepler.

Key hit and what this team desperately needs.... run production from someone outside the of the top 4, tonight top 3. Kirilloff bats 5 tomorrow.

I agree and frankly, this team needs you to be right. Our offensive inconsistency is the result of being at least 2 players short to hit in run producing spots. Kepler is a nice player but he is not a number 5 or 6 hitter. He should be hitting 7 or later. Same for Urshela, same for Sanchez. Larnach can't hit breaking balls, Miranda is a maybe, Celestino has no power and is regressing to the mean. We have 4 quality hitters, 3 against LH if Arraez sits, and you need 5 or 6 Plus guys like Kepler, Sanchez and Urshela to have a consistent offense. We're 2 short. I'm hoping Kirilloff can fill in one of those 2 spots. My fantasy is Miranda can fill the other. Bottom line is at least one of those 2 needs to step up as a 5 or 6 hitter.

C'mon guys, context is critical. In a perfect development world Kirilloff, Larnach, Miranda, Celestino, Gordon and Garlick would play every day and we'd have a pretty good idea of where they are going at the MLB level by the end of the season. Of course, if those guys were playing every day better players wouldn't be and the team would stink. The good news is we're contending for the division and the better players are going to play. The reality is we have 5 spots for those 6 guys on the MLB roster on this team. One of them is going to have to either be optioned or DFA'd when Polanco is ready to return unless someone gets injured. It seems unlikely that the DFA candidates (Gordon, Garlick) will go since they are likely to be claimed by another team. That leaves the other 4 with 3 chairs. Based upon performance, Miranda probably stays. Celestino is slumping but he plays CF so he has a leg up unless Gordon plays CF the days Buxton does not. I think the team is higher on Kirilloff's potential than either Larnach or Celestino. He stays, and one of the other two go. Tough call but Larnach's inability to hit breaking balls tells me the should go back down to AAA.

Play him everyday at 1B or in LF, or even DH him. Larnach has fallen off the table so he can sit unitl being sent down when Polanco returns. If Kirilloff hits, he stays. If not, it's back to AAA.

Kirriloff's situation reminds me of that old joke about the two guys in the woods who accidentally startle a bear. The bear turns on them and gets ready to charge. One of the guys bends over and begins to change his shoes into something he can run in better. The other guy says "don't wait, we have to outrun the bear". The guy changing his shoes looks up and says "I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you." Kirilloff looked to have some pretty good potential over the weekend although far from a sure thing. He doesn't need to be great to stay with the Twins, He just needs to be better than either Celestino, Miranda or Larnach. One of those four is likely to go down to AAA when Polanco is ready to come off the IL on Thursday. Right now, Miranda, Celestino and Kirilloff are all outrunning Larnach. I think it's Larnach back to AAA by the end of the week. We will get to see a lot of Kirilloff in the next few days to see if he's still running fast enough.