LA Vikes Fan

I think this accurately assess the baseball merit of the trade. You have to add in the loss of the back end of the bullpen to the mix. It doesn't really matter for 2025 since this season is blown any way, but not having Varland as the potential closer for next year is a real loss. I still think the trade makes sense on the baseball merits, but it's a realtively close call. It's probably a risk worth taking if you assume as I do, that the current core was simply incapable of being competitive in the short term. Having said that, there is more at stake. I'm seeing a lot of comments that are more emotional than baseball related, bemoaning the loss of the local kid who made good and whose family was coming to the games. I think that's a fair issue; Twins are a consumer facing entertainment business and they need to generate emotional attachment. It looks like Varland did that for a lot of people. That's a real asset and I don't understand why the Twins either didn't recognize that asset or decided it didn't have sufficient value to stop the trade. I don't think the trade is so one-sided in the Twins' direction that it's a "must do" regardless of loss of the local favorite. In sum, I didn't understand the trade when it was made. I much better understand the trade now from a baseball perspective but still don't understand it from a fan engagement perspective. This is simply a trade I would not have made.

This. I think the Twins moves at the deadline, while extreme, were generally speaking necessary (I still don't get the Varland trade unless Rojas really is going to be a top-end starter). The core group they put together simply wasn't good enough to be competitive and that wasn't likely to change anytime soon. The 5 FAs were gone and were not going to help us win anything this year. It would have been borderline malpractice not to trade them. On the reliever side, we got real value. The idea that the A's did better Mason Miller trade is just not correct - we got as good of or a better haul for Duran and the A's included an established mid-rotation to backend starter in the package to the Padres. As for the rest, running basically that same group back made no sense. Correa is simply no longer a star player you can build a team around; he is a complementary player that can make a contribution to a team with an existing star core while not being part of that core. While it's wrong to focus on just one game, you could see in that 13 – 1 loss that this team just didn't have it and was coming apart at the seams. I just think a lot of the comments here are a little overboard. That may be because with the current ownership group, it's very hard to see how these changes are somehow molded into a more competitive team in the next 2 or 3 years. I'm hoping that a new ownership group will do things differently. There needs to be some wholesale changes in the player development group outside of the pitchers, and the team needs to embrace a more athletic, faster type of player at its core. That may mean a change in the Front Office and/or a change in manager as well. None of that was going to happen if this group was held together. Trading relief pitching for value was the right move given where this team was at. I think if the team is sold this first off-season is going to be fascinating. We will learn quickly whether the new owner is looking to be competitive in the short term, medium term, or ever. If the team is not sold, that I take back everything I just said because we are screwed and looking at a prolonged period of futility under the current hapless ownership regime.

I agree although I think Roden stays until Buxton is activated on Wednessday (?) and then goes down.

Just tuned in and saw a shot of Keaschall in the dugout. Has he been added yet? Who is going away? My money is on Fitzgerald although it should be Gaspar. Man looks like Mario.

While I agree with a lot of the comments and the sentiments, I guess I start from a different place. This core simply wasn't a group of players in whom to invest or frankly, even keep around. They showed us that last year when going 23-32 in August and September while chasing a playoff berth, losing 25 of their last 37, and they showed us in again in June (9-18) and July (11-13) this year. Minor changes weren't going to be enough. Starting there, the only trade that I see as problematic was trading Varland. The rest all made sense - expiring contracts flipped for at least some value for the most part, really good returns on the Duran trade, a good return on Jax who wanted out and is starting to decline at age 30, and losing Correa who clearly wanted out and wasn't the answer. Trading Varland only makes sense in the context of starting pitching is more valuable than relief pitching and Rojas, the 21 year old leftie starter who just got to AAA (at age 21!), could be more valuable in time but it's a real crapshoot. Varland could have been the replacement closer and been around for another 4 years. Also, the Stewart trade was a little weird although its being painted here in LA as getting an older, injury prone guy for a former top 3 ROY finisher. I guess we all have are own myopic perspective. We needed to clean house and reset the roster. The lousy message doesn't change what I see as the true fact: the Twins as previously constituted were a mediocre team going nowhere and frankly getting pretty old to boot. Now we're a youngish team with younger players getting a shot so at least there's some upside. I guess that's better? Just wish there was a column C we are a good contending team.

While I agree with a lot of the comments and the sentiments, I guess I start from a different place. This core simply wasn't a group of players in whom to invest or frankly, even keep around. They showed us that last year when going 23-32 in August and September while chasing a playoff berth, losing 25 of their last 37, and they showed us in again in June (9-18) and July (11-13) this year. Minor changes weren't going to be enough. Starting there, the only trade that I see as problematic was trading Varland. The rest all made sense - expiring contracts flipped for at least some value for the most part, really good returns on the Duran trade, a good return on Jax who wanted out and is starting to decline at age 30, and losing Correa who clearly wanted out and wasn't the answer. Varland only makes sense in the context of starting pitching is more valuable than relief pitching and Rojas, the 21 year old leftie starter who just got to AAA (at age 21!), could be more valuable in time but it's a real crapshoot. Varland could have been the replacement closer and been around for another 4 years. Also, the Stewart trade was a little weird although its being painted here in LA as getting an older, injury prone guy for a former top 3 ROY finisher. I guess we all have are own myopic perspective. We needed to clean house and reset the roster. The letter is tone deaf at best and frankly pretty stupid, but that doesn't change what I see as the true fact: the Twins as previously constituted were a mediocre team going nowhere and frankly getting pretty old to boot. Now we're a youngish team with younger players getting a shot so at least there's some upside. I guess that's better? Just wish there was a column C we are a good contending team.

Speaking of which, does it cost a year of service time for Prielipp to get a start or 3 in Minnesota this year? It would be nice to gauge where he is.

Maybe I'm too impatient but I would like to see Culpepper and Jenkins get a shot this year. I don't think Lee is a long term MLB SS - too slow, not enough range, doesn't hit well enough for 3B. Right now, Lee looks like a long term UTL. I have more hope for Martin but I think he's realistically a 4th OF because of the lack of power and the strangely mediocre defense (how can such a great athlete not be good at defense in baseball?). Here's what I would like to see by 8/15: 1B - Clemens/Lee 2B - Keaschall SS - Culpepper 3B - Lewis UTL - Lee UTL (1B/2B) - Julien LF - Jenkins CF - Buxton RF - Wallner/Larnach 4th OF - Martin C - Jeffers, Vasquez DH - Larnach/Wallner/Martin/Jeffers Play these guys almost every day. Send Roden back to AAA, he's a 2026 ST project. Fitzgerald and Keirsey are AAAA guys, send them to AAA (or DFA land). Yes, be prepared for a lot of SOs and offensive futility, and yes Martin may be a bust as the backup CF (but we need to know since he can hit and Keirsey/Outman cannot). Alternatively, make Martin the 2B and move Keaschall to LF with Jenkins as the backup CF, but then it's hard to get all 3 plus Buxton in the lineup every day unless Wallner or Larnach sit. Yes, this might be painful at times but this way we have a much better handle on 2026 and 2027.

Amen, brother. Still don't understand the Varland trade though, unless the 21 year-old LH starter they got is the real deal.

Wow, that was an exciting top of the first. This game is a scalper's dream.

I don't get that at all. Outman has actually had success against MLB pitching, albeit in 550 PAs in 2023. Keirsey, not so much . . .

C'mon now. Outman is no prize but he's a lot better than DeShawn Keirsey. No reason to insult the guy.

Well, the moves were made and its a mixed bag. Some of promoting the youngish (Martin, Julien, Adams, Ohl), some of playing guys not in the long term plan (Erasmo Ramirez, Fitzgerald, Urena). Also tells us who among those recently arriving the team thinks are ready now (Alan Roden). OF - Martin, Roden, Wallner, Larnach, Keirsey (Buxton on IL) IF - Lewis, Lee, Julien, Clemens, Fitzgerald. Gaspar C- Jeffers, Vasquez SP - Ryan, SWR, Matthews, ?? BP - Sands, Topa, Tonkin, Ohl, Adams, Davis, Ramirez, Funderburk, Urena. Still one short. Have to figure Ober is activated to pitch tomorrow or early next week for one of the TBA games. Hopefully Urena and Ramirez are BP candidates only and won't get a start. I would love to see Abel in the rotation or at least Taj Bradley starting next week. BTW, where is Keaschall? I did look and it looks like he's 6-32 in this 10 games or so, maybe needs time to get back into a rhythm.

Interesting. He’s been playing some OF. Any word yet on who’s coming up. I think we are at 7 open roster spots.

I'm a little surprised that Larnach didn't get traded. We also have to add Roden into the OF mix. He hasn't hit much in 100 MLB ABs, but with a wRC+ is 150 in AAA, there's no reason to leave him there. Maybe Buxton in CF, Outman/Martin in LF, Wallner in RF, Roden as a 5th OF, and Larnach at 1B? I'm legitimately clueless on how you put this together to field a team.

I started this so I guess I'll end it. The sell-off appears complete. So who is on the Twins MBLB roster tomorrow? Here's my take: SP - Ryan, Ober, SWR, Matthews, Taj Bradley or Mick Abel (with Lopez and Festa on the IL). Still a pretty strong group. RP - This oughtta be fun. I'm guessing this: Sands, Topa, Funderburk, Bradley or Abel, Adams, Ohl (if he can be recalled), with Prielipp and Peredes from AA? Hell, your guess is as good as and probably better than mine. C - Jeffers/Vasquez IB - Clemens 2B - Keschall SS - Lee 3B - Lewis LF - Larnach/Martin platoon CF - Buxton RF - Wallner 4th/5th OF - Outman UTL/Bench bats - Eeles, Julien. WOw, this could get ugly.

The beat goes on. Castro traded to the Cubs for "multiple prospects". Not sure who yet.

Hey, we still got half an hour. I'm with you, time for France, Vasquez, and Castro to go. None of them help what is going to be a completely rebuilding. A rebuilding team with, ironically, a strong starting rotation in 2026.

I was just going to post that what all of this tells me is that they are either close to finishing the sale or the sale has completely fallen apart. Either way, they are clearing the decks for this year while leaving some talent on the roster. My optimistic guess is the sale is in the final stages with the Pohlads responsible for this season financially so they are facilitating their exit and leaving new ownership with a reasonably fresh slate by basically dumping anyone who is not controllable or is making any money. My pessimistic read is that the sale is not happening and they are trying to lessen their losses for this year in the hope of selling in the off-season.

Well here we are on July 31 and the sell-off is well under way. SO far, Duran, Stewart, Bader, Cploumbe and, of al people, Correa are out of here. Who replaces them?

Fun exercise for tomorrow - who's on the Twins? By my count we are trading 5 of the 26 man roster so far. Even if we assume Outman goes onto the MLB roster, that opens 4 spots - 2 in the bullpen, 2 on the roster. And that's so far. I'll bet it's 3 more spots before the day is over - Vasquez, Castro, and Jax will all be gone and I will bet that none of the players received in return will be on an MLB roster. What 7 players come up from AAA to take those spots?

I think this is spot on. My guess is that Houston called and he originally was unsure. Then he saw the team stumble into and out of the AS break, looked around and asked to go. He's 30, 31 in September, and in decline. He wants to go to a competitive team to finish his career. Can't blame him.

James Outman! I live in LA and follow the Dodgers so I can tell you what happened to him. In 2023, finished third in the Rookie of the Year balloting, had a 3.4 WAR, and was the Dodgers centerfielder for the next 5-7 years. In 2024, he got off to a terrible start, got hurt, and was replaced by Andy Pages, will promptly hit and took his job. Pages now starts and has a .795 OPS. Since then, Outman's played very infrequently and has not hit at all. I mean, not at all. This guy is a complete crapshoot. If given playing time, maybe he could return to the 2023 guy who had a .795 OPS in 550 plate appearances. He does have a .970 OPS in AAA this year in what's called a "hitter friendly" league. More likely though, this is Keirsey all over again. Not much of a return.

Agreed. Let's also not forget that Mason Miller was better than Duran last year even if Duran is better this year. Frankly, I see the two as pretty even with Miller probably a little more valuable because of the extra years of control and lower costs. Add in that the A's included a quality MLB fourth starter and you would expect them to get more in return than the Twins got for just Duran. And frankly, I'm not sure the A's did get more overall. Depends on whether Abel is a real pitcher.

So you're telling me that we traded Duran for two guys who fit in as roughly our fourth or fifth best prospect (Tait), and our seventh or eighth best prospect (Abel). Wait a minute, I thought we got fleeced and that Falvey crumbled under the weight of the mighty Dave Dombrowski? Soon you're going to tell me that the A's got a much better deal by trading Mason Miller, who was better than Duran last year but not as good this year, and JP Sears, who is a better and more durable starter than Paddack but probably not as good as Ober assuming he is back to his old self, for a really good 18-year-old shortstop prospect and some lottery ticket pitching prospects who might be great relievers in the future or who might be working at McDonald's in five years. That doesn't fit into the FO are bunch of idiots narrative I keep reading. Hmm....