Twins Can Begin Cashing in on Prospects

I see some organizations playing 19-21 year olds at the MLB level and wonder why the Twins don't seem to do that. Are they too cautious?

It's not a question of can they, but will they. I'm guessing one medium sized trade.

It maybe a questions of can they.  At the trade deadline, they only had trade interest in Kiriloff and Lewis.  One of them had to be included in the trade to get Marcus Stroman.  Considering what he ended up getting traded for, you have to wonder if we overrating the farm system.

One of the issues the Twins have is Lewis,Larnich, Kiriloff,  Graterol as al basically top 50 guys, and to trade top 50 guys you need a really, really good player back with years of control. (not sure who that is?)

And the next tier is what everybody seems to want to trade for that really, really good player with years of control and other teams might not think that highly of them, leaving the Twins in a tough spot for trading.

basically what Riverbrian said above.

So here's the prospect question as I see it.  Can they go out and spend them to get someone who would be a better bet to be better than the options in FA? If so, I'd say trade the prospects. I'd rather, however, use them to plug holes come mid season and spend real cash on upgrades in FA. 

But taking this one step further which is where I think the OP would suggest we go, lets do all of these things. Trade from depth for the really good controllable player, keep the guys we want for depth AND sign a big name free agent! 

If we traded Rosario and lesser prospects for Syndegaard, Kirrilloff or Larnach or Raley or Rooker or Wade or.... to fill Rosario's place, We sign Garret Cole for 7 years 210 Million, resign Odorizzi, and we still have the other prospects we did not trade to fill in as depth, we are truly contenders.

I see some organizations playing 19-21 year olds at the MLB level and wonder why the Twins don't seem to do that. Are they too cautious?

Byron Buxton? Brusdar Graterol?

Byron Buxton? Brusdar Graterol?

 How old was Jorge Polanco when he first appeared?

I'm not against a depth move as you suggested. I'm not sure we have much in the high minors that fits that narrative. Our most ready prospects to fill in are Gordon (for Arraez) and Raley in the OF.

 

Trading Rosie opens up a hole in the OF. AK isn't ready now... neither is Rooker or Larnach… Cave should be a decent 3rd OF, but if/when Buxton goes down.. well... now it's a problem. I would say it's reasonably certain that we'd see a drop off in production in RF if that happened... and that's before I point out that I highly doubt Rosario, Arraez, or Cave gets that kind of return. 

 

I think that type of move might be better made next season if guys like AK, Larnach, and Lewis are all making a case to be in the majors. 

I think we would be better off with Syndegaard and Wade Than Rosario and not have a Syndegaard type. Wade would only be that fall back guy if one of the bigger outfield prospects doesn't push his way up in Spring Training. With Kirrilloff, Larnach, Rooker, Wiel, and Raley all a step away, I would be surprised if one of them doesn't push their way up early in the season if not straight out of Spring Training.

It maybe a questions of can they.  At the trade deadline, they only had trade interest in Kiriloff and Lewis.  One of them had to be included in the trade to get Marcus Stroman.  Considering what he ended up getting traded for, you have to wonder if we overrating the farm system.

How do you know this? Look at what he was traded for? No one near the level of either one of those 2 players.

I'm curious how people think that what was leaked from Twins officials are what ultimately was going on. I just look back on all kinds of trades and see what was it ACTUALLY took to acquire guys from time to time and it seems to me, most of the time, Twins would have been able to match or beat these offers. 

Like Syndergaard. I don't believe for one second that the Mets actually believed they would get Lewis and Kiriloff both for him. Did they start there? Maybe. But I would be willing to bet either one of those guys, plus another from our top 7-15 would have got that trade done without an issue. 

One of the issues the Twins have is Lewis,Larnich, Kiriloff,  Graterol as al basically top 50 guys, and to trade top 50 guys you need a really, really good player back with years of control. (not sure who that is?)

 

And the next tier is what everybody seems to want to trade for that really, really good player with years of control and other teams might not think that highly of them, leaving the Twins in a tough spot for trading.

basically what Riverbrian said above.

I'm not sure alot of folks actually feel this way. I'm pretty sure there is a good portion of the fanbase that is more than ok with using of few of those guys from the top of your list as long as it brings back real talent. 

Twins have been the ones trying to trade peanuts for ribeye steaks, at least over the years they have been.(Maybe that's what you meant with your post, sorry)

I will give this FO credit, they have done a pretty darn good job so far. But to me, the biggest test is these next couple years. This is the same type of thing Terry Ryan was faced with, with a few of his cores. He declined to do anything significant and it was the start of the 16 game streak of gettiing beat in the postseason. The real question, IMO, is will the ownership allow their FO to break from the Twins mold and do what it takes to build a real contender? Or will they toe the line and continue with the cheap ways and prospect hoarding we have seen for years?

when he first appeared, or came up to stay and star? Those are two very different things.....

He got a few games at ages 20 and 21 but became more of a regular at 22 when he appeared in 69 games--not a huge difference agewise.

The argument was that the Twins don't play guys at the MLB level at that age, which doesn't ring true. Mauer debuted at age 20, Torii Hunter at 21-22, Cuddyer, Kyle Lohse, Matt Garza, Morneau, Sano, Kepler, and Arraez all made their first appearances at 22. Again, the original post was referring to 20-21 year olds, but I'd argue there's not much of a difference playing a 21 year old and a 22 year old.

Point being, the Twins don't avoid calling guys up at that point because they're young. It's because there aren't too many guys demonstrating that they're MLB caliber players in their early 20s. I'm guessing the Twins aren't abnormal in their decisions to play guys real young.

ETA: Stay and star at the MLB level are two very different things, ones that most MLB players never achieve no matter their age.

How do you know this? Look at what he was traded for? No one near the level of either one of those 2 players.

 

I'm curious how people think that what was leaked from Twins officials are what ultimately was going on. I just look back on all kinds of trades and see what was it ACTUALLY took to acquire guys from time to time and it seems to me, most of the time, Twins would have been able to match or beat these offers. 

 

Like Syndergaard. I don't believe for one second that the Mets actually believed they would get Lewis and Kiriloff both for him. Did they start there? Maybe. But I would be willing to bet either one of those guys, plus another from our top 7-15 would have got that trade done without an issue. 

The fact they got players nowhere near the level of our top 2 is my point.  If the reporting was correct, they were requiring either Lewis or Kiriloff in the deal.  They looked at the rest of our system and were either not offered enough or didn't think anyone else in our system was better than the players the Met's offer unless the Twins included one of the top 2 players.

I find it hard to believe Toronto accepted a lesser deal from New York than what the Twins were able to offer just because the Twins wouldn't include Lewis or Kiriloff.  They must have not have considered the other Twins prospects at the level of the Met's prospects.

 

I find it hard to believe Toronto accepted a lesser deal from New York than what the Twins were able to offer just because the Twins wouldn't include Lewis or Kiriloff.  They must have not have considered the other Twins prospects at the level of the Met's prospects.

I am guessing (really hoping) that MN didn't think he was going to be a upgrade over what they had at the time (Berrios, Pineda, Ordo and Gibson) and weren't willing to pay the price being asked for a 5th starter. Which if Pineda doesn't get hurt May be true.

And (fingers crossed) their thoughts were with those guys plus another or two they could get a better pitcher at the deadline or off season.

Hopefully not wishful thinking.

 

I find it hard to believe Toronto accepted a lesser deal from New York than what the Twins were able to offer just because the Twins wouldn't include Lewis or Kiriloff.  They must have not have considered the other Twins prospects at the level of the Met's prospects.

I would surmise it is not the fact that lower prospects wouldn't get it done. I feel as if this information was leaked because the Twins were unwilling to beat the offer accepted even without using Lewis and Kiriloff. 

They don't tell the truth to their fans over there all the time. Or at the very least, they leave parts of the truth out. They have always made it seem as if the other organization is the villian, "the asking price was too high", "he turned down our offer and wanted too much money", etc.  

Now, I am not all that mad they didn't make a trade for Stroman. I don't feel he is that great. There have been chances over the years though to add real talent by giving someone up and they haven't done it. 

Basically, I really won't believe anything from them until there is proof their offer was higher both in terms of trades or FA signing. That's me, I'm sour. Most of it comes from blowing 2006 and 2010. Even though those were a long time ago, it still chaps my hide. LOL

I see some organizations playing 19-21 year olds at the MLB level and wonder why the Twins don't seem to do that. Are they too cautious?

There were only 3 position players with 300 PA and age 20-21: Vlad Jr., Soto and Acuna. There were 9 players at age 22, and the Twins had one - Arraez. 

The Twins pitched Graterol on his 21st birthday as a RP and put him on the playoff roster.

I think the Twins are reasonably aggressive. I have no doubt they will bring up Lewis, Kirilloff or Larnach whenever they are ready (except for years of control shenanigans).