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    Will Pohlad Family Cut Minnesota Twins Payroll Another $30 Million in 2026? Dan Hayes Thinks So

    On an appearance on the YouTube show "Foul Territory" last week, The Athletic's Twins beat writer speculated that the club's payroll could dive all the way to $100 million by Opening Day 2026.

    Matthew Trueblood
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    In the wake of the team's aggressive moves at the trade deadline and the subsequent announcement that the Pohlad family will retain control of the franchise, Twins fans have spent much of the last three weeks wondering whether the team will enjoy more investment from ownership over the next few years. On the contrary, when he appeared on the YouTube show "Foul Territory" on August 14, The Athletic beat writer Dan Hayes speculated that payroll will shrink in 2026—perhaps by $30 million or more.

    It's too early to assume this is an accurate projection; that's why Hayes himself has yet to write a story around that forecast. It will be at least mid-October before the team settles on its budget for 2026, and even then, we saw more money shake loose for the team late last offseason. Teams don't make final decisions about how to allocate resources for the coming offseason in August; Hayes's reporting is strictly based on background chatter and his own assessment of the team's payroll as it projects right now.

    We can already begin to do that assessment ourselves, though, and it's not terribly hard to see what Hayes is seeing—especially if one assumes, as is always wise, that he's plugged in as well as is possible to the team's thinking at this early stage of turning toward next year. Let's take a look at the current payroll picture, to understand what it means when Hayes speculates such a slashing of spending this winter.

    Locked-in Money
    It makes sense to start with the player who isn't going anywhere, and the monetary obligation that can't be traded. The former is Byron Buxton, who continues to profess his love of playing for the Twins and who has a no-trade clause. The $15 million he'll make in 2026 is a non-negotiable cornerstone of the payroll, just as he's the cornerstone of the team.

    The other cornerstone was supposed to be Carlos Correa, of course, but he went to Houston via trade on July 31. In the process, the Twins agreed to pay the Astros $10 million per year from 2026 through 2028. (In case you're wondering, trading obligations like those in other, later deals is not allowed.) That brings us quickly to $25 million, and there are still 25 Opening Day roster spots to fill. Let's talk, then, about the guys who will soak up the majority of the remaining money—unless they're sent packing.

    Big But Movable
    Unlike Buxton, Pablo López doesn't have a no-trade clause in the extension he signed with the team in 2023. He's set to make $21.5 million in 2026, but it's not at all clear that the Twins will be the ones paying that. López is a great pitcher and an even better presence in the clubhouse, but for those very reasons, he'll also have terrific trade value this winter. For the moment, stack him with Buxton and the ghost of Correa and we're up to $46.5 million, but it wouldn't be surprising at all if he's dealt.

    Two players are in line to receive smaller but substantial salaries via the arbitration process this winter, too. Ryan Jeffers will be arbitration-eligible for the final time before becoming a free agent at the end of the 2026 season, and is already making $4.55 million this year. Expect that number to be around $7.5 million next year. Joe Ryan could make just as much, despite only being in his second year of arbitration eligibility; being one year further from free agency; and making just $3 million this year. His All-Star season and career-best run of health and reliability will send that number skyward.

    Both Ryan and Jeffers are good candidates for contract extensions, but at this moment, it's hard to guess whether the Twins see themselves as being in position to offer them those deals. Certainly, the deadline fire sale did little to engender any interest in such a commitment from the players' side. Right now, let's call this group $36.5 million in projected salary—but write it in pencil, instead of pen.

    Stalled-Out Players in Arbitration Phase
    Ryan and Jeffers have had strong years, and Jeffers is at a stage of the arbitration cycle where players get more earning power almost by default. Thus, they're likely to get the hefty raises we just described. On the other hand, Bailey Ober ($3.55 million), Trevor Larnach ($2.1 million) and Royce Lewis ($1.625 million) are all having inconsistent, even discouraging seasons after their first trips through arbitration. None of them will get to what Jeffers and Ryan will make next year.

    Ober has been the best of that set and has the highest platform salary, so it's possible he'll make $7 million. Some of that, like everything else we're talking about here, depends on how the final six weeks of the season go. Larnach could be in line to make as much as $5 million, but if the Twins project him to earn that much, he's likely to be non-tendered. A better estimate might be $4.5 million. Lewis should get to the north side of $3 million, but his season has been a disaster and he has less earning power than Larnach right now.

    We'll use that same pencil, again, to write in $15.5 million for these three. Along with the bundles above, we're up to $77 million already. But now, we get to the part where the team racks up some savings.

    Locked in at the League Minimum
    Several players whom the team seems almost certain to retain won't be eligible for arbitration even next year. Each of them represents a roster spot for which the club will only pay roughly $800,000 over the full season. In rough order of clear utility and security as parts of the team's future, those guys are:

    That's a vital sextet for the team, and it'll cost only $4.8 million. Though their places are not quite as established or secure, another handful of players in the same bracket can also be penciled in, averaging that same $800,000 per person.

    This is half a roster (although not a very good one) making a total of just $10.4 million. If we discount the possibility of non-tendering Larnach or trading any of the López-Jeffers-Ryan class, for now, we're at 20 roster spots accounted for and $87.4 million. There are just a few more cases to consider, before we start imagining all of this in a more concrete way.

    Low-Dollar Arb Dudes
    We're putting them last, but almost no one has a safer roster spot for next year than this small group of guys who have almost no earning power and have played major roles on the 2025 team. Kody Clemens is almost a lock to get over the line and be eligible for arbitration as a Super Two guy. Cole Sands will have more than three years of service time, so he's automatically eligible, and Justin Topa will be eligible for the final time before becoming a free agent. Even before the fire sale, these guys had roles on the big-league team, but Clemens has been the starting first baseman for weeks now and Topa and Sands are the aces of this war-torn bullpen.

    Multiple Twins have pointed to Clemens as one of the best teammates in the whole clubhouse. Though he's not an elite slugger, he's more than worth the paltry $1.3 million he might make next year. Ditto for Sands and Topa. As a group, these three might get to $5 million, or they might not even make it that far. It would be a mild shock to see the team non-tender any of them, although they'll probably draw a hard line with each and keep them only if they can get a deal done before arbitration figures need to be exchanged.

    What's Left to Do, and What's Left to Do It With
    We're over $92 million now, and the team we're sketching is not a good one. There are just a few roster spots left to fill, but trades or non-tenders could create another four or five such spots. It sure seems like, even if the Twins have only $100 million or $110 million to spend on 2026, they have money to spend in free agency. The question is how much—and whether those free agents will be tasked with replacing more outgoing guys, or with filling the gaps left by last month's trades (bullpen depth, the back end of the rotation, the outfield) and by expected free-agent departures (backup catcher).

    Twins fans are right to demand real upgrades, rather than such patches. The team has several great prospects in the upper levels of the minors who should make their debuts next year, but they also have several players penciled into major roles who were great prospects a few years ago and now look like parts of the problem, rather than the solution. If Hayes is correct in his speculation, though, no such influx of high-end talent is forthcoming. The Twins can run a payroll around $30 million lower than this year's even if they keep López, Ryan and Jeffers, but in that case, they're likely to be back in the same place next July, and perhaps those three would be traded then. For the club to move forward and have a more successful 2026, it seems as though they'll need to either match (or increase) spending or make savvy trades of at least one of that high-earning trio. Since Hayes's ballpark figure makes the former feel unlikely, the latter possibility will continue to be a hot topic as the offseason comes into view on the horizon.

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    Would pushing the payroll to 120 Million help pay for itself with more people in the seats?  There are many of us who want to love the twins and they have a lot of exiting young players coming.   Would we be completive in the central with a 120 Million payroll?

     

     

    27 minutes ago, Tjwalsh65 said:

    Would pushing the payroll to 120 Million help pay for itself with more people in the seats?  There are many of us who want to love the twins and they have a lot of exiting young players coming.   Would we be completive in the central with a 120 Million payroll?

     

     

    Competitive in the AL Central perhaps, but not in the AL at large. But that requires holding onto both Ryan and Lopez and is selling out the future in order to be a mediocre team in 2026. That sort of shortsightedness is why the Twins sucked so much these last couple seasons. 

    It's better to just absolutely suck in 2026, fully stock those cupboards, and then go from there. 

    6 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

    Here is a projected payroll for next year.  Of course, we have to make some assumptions.  I come up with around $77M if they trade Pable and Ryan which I suspect they will.  Larnach is traded as well.  This also includes adding two RPs at a salary of $5M each.  Correa's $10M is included.

    There are a couple other assumptions here that don't mean much in terms of payroll.  Culpepper eventually takes over for Lee at SS moving Lee to a utility IF role.  The year starts with Fitzgerald in that utility role but it could be Eeles or they could sign a Wili Castro equivalent for a bench role.  Of course, the return for Ryan/Lopez has a good chance of containing pieces that fit in at some point in 2026.

    1 Bailey Ober 7,000,000
    2 Zebby Matthews 820,000
    3 Taj Bradley 820,000
    4 David Festa 820,000
    5 SWR 820,000
         
      Relief Pitchers  
    6 Cole Sands 820,000
    7 LH Free Agent  5,000,000
    8 RH Free Agent  5,000,000
    9 Michael Tonkin 1,750,000
    10 Justin Topa 1,750,000
    11 Travis Adams 820,000
    12 Andrew Morris 820,000
    13 Funderburk 820,000
         
         
      Catchers  
    14 Ryan Jeffers 6,500,000
    15 Cardenas  /  Trade  /  FA 6,000,000
         
      Infielders  
    1B Fedko / Julien / Sabato 820,000
    2B Luke Keaschall 820,000
    3B Royce Lewis 3,000,000
    SS Brooks Lee  >>> Kaelen Culpepper 820,000
         
      Utility Players  
    20 Kody Clemens  820,000
    21 Fitzgerald  >>>  Brooks Lee 820,000
    22 Kyler Fedko 820,000
    23 Wallner  >>> Gonzalez / Rosario 2,200,000
         
         
      Outfielders  
    24 Wallner  >>> Jenkins 820,000
    25 Byron Buxton  CF 15,142,857
    26 Roden  >>> Gonzalez or Erod 820,000
         
      Carlos Correa 10,000,000
         
      TOTAL PAYROLL    76,462,857

    What did you do with Abel?

    why keep Ober he’s on the down side. 

    6 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

    Here is a projected payroll for next year.  Of course, we have to make some assumptions.  I come up with around $77M if they trade Pable and Ryan which I suspect they will.  Larnach is traded as well.  This also includes adding two RPs at a salary of $5M each.  Correa's $10M is included.

    There are a couple other assumptions here that don't mean much in terms of payroll.  Culpepper eventually takes over for Lee at SS moving Lee to a utility IF role.  The year starts with Fitzgerald in that utility role but it could be Eeles or they could sign a Wili Castro equivalent for a bench role.  Of course, the return for Ryan/Lopez has a good chance of containing pieces that fit in at some point in 2026.

    1 Bailey Ober 7,000,000
    2 Zebby Matthews 820,000
    3 Taj Bradley 820,000
    4 David Festa 820,000
    5 SWR 820,000
         
      Relief Pitchers  
    6 Cole Sands 820,000
    7 LH Free Agent  5,000,000
    8 RH Free Agent  5,000,000
    9 Michael Tonkin 1,750,000
    10 Justin Topa 1,750,000
    11 Travis Adams 820,000
    12 Andrew Morris 820,000
    13 Funderburk 820,000
         
         
      Catchers  
    14 Ryan Jeffers 6,500,000
    15 Cardenas  /  Trade  /  FA 6,000,000
         
      Infielders  
    1B Fedko / Julien / Sabato 820,000
    2B Luke Keaschall 820,000
    3B Royce Lewis 3,000,000
    SS Brooks Lee  >>> Kaelen Culpepper 820,000
         
      Utility Players  
    20 Kody Clemens  820,000
    21 Fitzgerald  >>>  Brooks Lee 820,000
    22 Kyler Fedko 820,000
    23 Wallner  >>> Gonzalez / Rosario 2,200,000
         
         
      Outfielders  
    24 Wallner  >>> Jenkins 820,000
    25 Byron Buxton  CF 15,142,857
    26 Roden  >>> Gonzalez or Erod 820,000
         
      Carlos Correa 10,000,000
         
      TOTAL PAYROLL    76,462,857

    Looks like a 65 win team... Hard to figure why attendance is plummeting.

    5 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

    Wallner starts the season in the OF and is forced into a primary DH role by an OF prospect that plays better defense.  Of course, it's possible he gets traded at some point in 2026.  The 2.2 assumes allows for the possibility he steps up and remains with the team or remains with the team in a diminished role.  It won't make much difference ($1.4m) either way so in terms of payroll it's not much of an issue.

    It doesn't make any difference if he is traded or "steps up", he will still make league minimum.

    1 hour ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

    I understand why people want to move Lopez and Ryan, I just don't think it works if the rest of the team is young guys learning their way. You have to have something that keeps the games competitive if you want the young guys to learn - they need to be put in crucial late inning situations to get better. That 8th and 9th inning at bat isn't as instructive if you're down 8-3 as it is in a tie game, that 7th and 8th inning relief assignments not as helpful if you're down 3 or 4 (or 5 or 6) as with a small lead or in a tie game, and that start is more pressure packed and instructive if the team is around .500 and being mentioned in the wild card race as it is if you're 10 games under .500, etc. Players develop in competitive situations more quickly and better than on uncompetitive teams. Keeping Lopez and Ryan makes it much more likely we will be in competitive situations and I think that would really help speed up the development and frankly the evaluation of guys like Keaschall, Wallner, Lee, Lewis, Mathews, SWR, Adams, Ohl, etc. Lots of guys can play well on a team that is out of it by May, just look at Brent Rooker. We need guys that can play well when the games matter and you don't develop those guys if the starting pitching is so bad that the games never matter.   

    I don't think most people WANT to move Lopez or Ryan; we're just expecting that they will get moved by an organization that doesn't expect to win in 2026 and an ownership that wants to cut payroll to increase their own profits.

    I agree that even when you're going with a youth movement and relying on your prospects that it's smart to have some quality veterans in place to help carry the load, keep things competitive, show the young guys the ropes, etc. I just have no faith that this team under the ownership of the Pohlads, led by Joe Pohlad, will do anything to make this team more competitive or do anything in the offseason to improve the club in the short-term. I do believe that they will shed more payroll, claiming it's the only way to keep from losing money. (please be clear: I don't believe it for a second when the Pohlads cry poverty.)

    55 minutes ago, Doc Lenz said:

    What did you do with Abel?

    why keep Ober he’s on the down side. 

    He is the first call-up from AAA.  Of course, this is debatable, but that's another conversation and it does not impact payroll.  I don't see them rushing him because what would be the point.  His presence is not going to thrust the twins into the playoff picture.  

    53 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

    It doesn't make any difference if he is traded or "steps up", he will still make league minimum.

    You are absolutely right.  I have when they become arbitration eligible and arbitration level in my spreadsheet and I had Wallner down for 2026.  Somehow, I got the wrong info or entered info in the wrong cell.   

    This is why I think they should go to first stage rebuild.  I mentioned that they should have a starting OF of Jenkins-Buxton-Rodriguez in another comment even if they decide not to go full rebuild (Never go full rebuild man...).   

    I doubt they do this and I doubt they even consider a rebuild since they figure to throw out the Buxton-Lewis core position players with the Lopez-Ryan-Ober core rotation one last shot believing their will be competitive.  I still bring Jenkins and Rodriguez and start them and let them swing, they can't be worse than what they have had on the roster this season. 

    Then if the season slips away they can dump Buxton and Lopez, maybe Ober in season with competitive teams competing for them.  The only risk in that is what if one of these guys gets hurt and you can't move them.  I probably would just say f it, lets rebuild.  Move Buxton and Lopez this offseason.   Get a good return and put those players right on the roster and play them to develop them.

    2 hours ago, NYCTK said:

    Competitive in the AL Central perhaps, but not in the AL at large. But that requires holding onto both Ryan and Lopez and is selling out the future in order to be a mediocre team in 2026. That sort of shortsightedness is why the Twins sucked so much these last couple seasons. 

    It's better to just absolutely suck in 2026, fully stock those cupboards, and then go from there. 

    In a perfect world, trading Ryan and Lopez brings back two pitchers who are just like . . . . wait for it. . . . Ryan and Lopez.  The odds of getting more than that out of a trade are very slim.  The odds of getting less are quite high.  With that in mind, why trade those two pitchers now?

    Right now, the Twins have a ways to go to even be competitive in the AL Central.  If they play their cards right and trade Ryan and Lopez, lots of things need to break right to get them back to where they are (pre-trade deadline) right now.  In two years.  With a lot of pain in the meantime.  And no guarantee (or even likelihood) of being competitive in 2027 or 2028.  

    Saying that we just need to trade everybody else oversimplifies the difficulty of building a competitive team.  Having a team like the Twins had the past two years and adding the right parts makes them competitive (assuming reasonable health).  A completely torn down team isn't magically going to be competitive in 2028 because we say we'd like it to be.  It may not even be any better than it is now, post-trade deadline.  In the meantime, we've missed out on getting to watch Ryan and Lopez pitch for the Twins during their peak years.  

     

    5 hours ago, NYCTK said:

    Yes. 100%. 

    The only trade the Pohalds seemingly had ANY input on was Correa, and that makes sense because it required a significant financial commitment from the Twins going forward. This DOES NOT mean, like so many seem to speculate, that the trade was forced by the Pohlads. 

    You tried really hard in another thread to deny they even had input in Correa.  At least we've moved past that I guess.

    Maybe it's time to take a step back and examine the bias you're walking in with.  I don't know why we're protecting the Pohlads from criticism.  Truly.  Unless you're in the will, it's pointless.  Let's just check off some things that shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge:

    Money spent on payroll has had a high correlation to winning in MLB.  It has for many seasons now and that correlation has gotten stronger, not weaker.  So....while you CAN (in the strictly logical use of the word) compete without payroll increases, it is demonstrably much more difficult to achieve.  Especially for any long period of time.

    The Pohlads "right-sizing" the payroll started this decline.  Their penny-pinching will allow it to fester.

    The Pohlads absolutely mettle in moves for talent based on financial obligations.  They have been doing so since Terry Ryan.  Their GMs just understand their role: fall on the sword in public, win their favor, keep your job.  

    Cutting payroll by the margins we're talking since 2023 is a wildly significant talent deficit.  There is just no other way around that.

    You mean to say that they’re NOT going to put any of the money saved in the Pohlad’s Correa salary dump back into the team on the field?? But I thought getting rid of Correa would give them breathing room to do…‘something’…even a modest ‘something’,,,to better the team.

    Shocked, I tell you. Shocked!

    If you didn’t see this coming, you’re either not paying attention, or your fandom emotions have you blind.

    2 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

    I don't think most people WANT to move Lopez or Ryan; we're just expecting that they will get moved by an organization that doesn't expect to win in 2026 and an ownership that wants to cut payroll to increase their own profits.

    I agree that even when you're going with a youth movement and relying on your prospects that it's smart to have some quality veterans in place to help carry the load, keep things competitive, show the young guys the ropes, etc. I just have no faith that this team under the ownership of the Pohlads, led by Joe Pohlad, will do anything to make this team more competitive or do anything in the offseason to improve the club in the short-term. I do believe that they will shed more payroll, claiming it's the only way to keep from losing money. (please be clear: I don't believe it for a second when the Pohlads cry poverty.)

    Yeah, I think you and I are really answering different questions - should  we trade Lopez and Ryan vs. will we trade Lopez and/or Ryan. I don't think we should trade either and particularly not for prospects. To me, that just not a smart way to build the team. At this point though, there may be other financial interests of Pohlad that trump baseball. It will be interesting to see if the identity of and power of the new investors makes a difference.  think you're right about Joe Pohlad. I 'm just hoping that the new investors are smarter and have enough clout/power to do things a better way.  

    15 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

    Yeah, I think you and I are really answering different questions - should  we trade Lopez and Ryan vs. will we trade Lopez and/or Ryan. I don't think we should trade either and particularly not for prospects. To me, that just not a smart way to build the team. At this point though, there may be other financial interests of Pohlad that trump baseball. It will be interesting to see if the identity of and power of the new investors makes a difference.  think you're right about Joe Pohlad. I 'm just hoping that the new investors are smarter and have enough clout/power to do things a better way.  

    I'm not sure why we should believe the investors have any power at all. Many MLB (and other pro sport leagues) teams have minority investors/owners. They aren't driving decisions. Just collecting checks.

    Patrick Mahomes owns part of the Royals. He's not dictating the direction the Royals take as a franchise. Derek freaking Jeter couldn't influence decisions with the Marlins and he was part of that ownership group when they first bought the team. Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, and Jose Altidore are all part owners of the Bills. The GM didn't ask their input on the James Cook extension, they asked Terry Pegula. 

    Minority owners get to brag about "owning" pro sports teams and attend fancy dinners. There's very little reason to believe a 20-whatever% stake bought them actual input on anything. And even less reason to believe they invested without a path to majority ownership because they care about wins and losses and are going to try to influence baseball decisions.

    I think there is a better chance than not that this happens. It will be difficult to be a playoff team next year with a stagnant lineup and no bullpen. Then a lockout in 2027 means 2028 is the first year we will compete. Anyone who won’t be here then might as well be traded. All the extra payroll saved will pay the bills during the lockout. It could work if they do a good job on the trades. Of course if they don’t then we will be lost in the desert for a while. Please don’t take this post as me endorsing this idea rather what I think they are likely to do. 

    24 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

    I'm not sure why we should believe the investors have any power at all. Many MLB (and other pro sport leagues) teams have minority investors/owners. They aren't driving decisions. Just collecting checks.

    Patrick Mahomes owns part of the Royals. He's not dictating the direction the Royals take as a franchise. Derek freaking Jeter couldn't influence decisions with the Marlins and he was part of that ownership group when they first bought the team. Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, and Jose Altidore are all part owners of the Bills. The GM didn't ask their input on the James Cook extension, they asked Terry Pegula. 

    Minority owners get to brag about "owning" pro sports teams and attend fancy dinners. There's very little reason to believe a 20-whatever% stake bought them actual input on anything. And even less reason to believe they invested without a path to majority ownership because they care about wins and losses and are going to try to influence baseball decisions.

    It al depends on the amount of the investment and the deal. The guys you mentioned are celebrity investors with small stakes and are typically just "names" put in groups to get approval. I've done and litigated a lot of deals with minority investors and you can do anything you want. The reason that it might be different here is that the new investors may be better business people, fanboys replacing family members who don't care, or maybe they don't want to be associated with a loser, or at least not with a non-competitive loser. On the other hand, these may be hard money people who are interested in cutting payroll to the bone now, making any money they can next year, participating in a 2027 lock out, and then cashing out in 2028 when there's a new CBA and new TV deals that may improve the value of the franchise. Or it could be anywhere in between.  Or maybe Joe wants to run a 120m payroll but couldn't with the debt service and now can without it.   

    The point is that none of us know how the new investors will change the franchise direction, if they change it at all. You assume the worst without knowing, although admittedly not without any any basis given what we just saw at the deadline. You may be right. Or we may see something different. None of us know.  The one thig I do think we "know" is that the core we had was going nowhere fast so in some senses there's nowhere to go but up. 

    Pohlad's are still the principle owners. Falvey is still heading the FO. And Rocco is still the Manager. All of that info tells us pretty much all that we need to know. We have the history to go by. They won't tear it down all the way to the studs and they won't go all in to build a championship caliber team. Correa found this out while he was here and we should know this as longtime fans. They'll continue to "hope" that every prospect succeeds and supplement them with over priced lower tier veterans. These over priced vets will continue to get favored over the younger players who they spent years telling us were our future. This is what they have done for years. Why would that change now?

    36 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

    Yeah, I think you and I are really answering different questions - should  we trade Lopez and Ryan vs. will we trade Lopez and/or Ryan. I don't think we should trade either and particularly not for prospects. To me, that just not a smart way to build the team. At this point though, there may be other financial interests of Pohlad that trump baseball. It will be interesting to see if the identity of and power of the new investors makes a difference.  think you're right about Joe Pohlad. I 'm just hoping that the new investors are smarter and have enough clout/power to do things a better way.  

    The 5 teams in the bottom half of revenue with the most 92 win seasons in the past 25 years are (8) Oakland (7) Cleveland  (6) Tampa (5) Minnesota (4) Milwaukee.  I compiled the acquisition method for every player that produced 1.5 WAR or greater for all 30 teams.  The acquisition methods are Draft / International Draft / Acquired as a Prospect / Trade for Established / Free Agent..  The percentages are in the table below.  Acquiring players as prospects has been far more effective than trading for established players or free agency.

    Drafted Intl AaP Trade FA
    34.0% 8.0% 36.0% 11.0% 11.0%

    BTW ... I used a very conservative definition for established players.  They were considered established if they had ever produced 1.5 WAR in a season.  If we were to use a more stringent definition of established (for example having produced 2 WAR in a season or 2 years, the gap between trading for established and trading for prospects would be far greater.

    2 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

    In a perfect world, trading Ryan and Lopez brings back two pitchers

    Please allow me to disagree. In a perfect world Ryan plus Ober brings back Nick Kurtz (not happening) or Ryan brings back someone like Max Clark or Jesus Made. The Twins need players who run, field, and hit. Currently, the roster includes one player who fits the standard, our oft-injured superstar centerfielder. 

    What we don't know is how other teams value the Twins players.

    3 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

    It al depends on the amount of the investment and the deal. The guys you mentioned are celebrity investors with small stakes and are typically just "names" put in groups to get approval. I've done and litigated a lot of deals with minority investors and you can do anything you want. The reason that it might be different here is that the new investors may be better business people, fanboys replacing family members who don't care, or maybe they don't want to be associated with a loser, or at least not with a non-competitive loser. On the other hand, these may be hard money people who are interested in cutting payroll to the bone now, making any money they can next year, participating in a 2027 lock out, and then cashing out in 2028 when there's a new CBA and new TV deals that may improve the value of the franchise. Or it could be anywhere in between.  Or maybe Joe wants to run a 120m payroll but couldn't with the debt service and now can without it.   

    The point is that none of us know how the new investors will change the franchise direction, if they change it at all. You assume the worst without knowing, although admittedly not without any any basis given what we just saw at the deadline. You may be right. Or we may see something different. None of us know.  The one thig I do think we "know" is that the core we had was going nowhere fast so in some senses there's nowhere to go but up. 

    But we don't "know nothing." We're not Jon Snow over here. It's been pretty widely reported that they bought somewhere in the 20s percentagewise. Essentially they bought out the debt. We know that Joe Pohlad himself said they were going to use the money to pay off the debt but wouldn't commit to spending any on payroll. And we have decades worth of Pohlad family ownership. Sure, we don't know anything 100% as far as how it'll all turn out, but we can make some pretty educated guesses.

    You can take that info anyway you want. But I'm going to take the entire history of the Pohlads owning this team and make a pretty educated guess that Joe being willing to openly state they're paying off their debt with the money but not being willing to say they're going to put any of it towards payroll as a Broadway sized, flashing, neon sign that he isn't looking to run a $120 million payroll and that the investors aren't there to get this thing humming in the spending department anytime soon. We know, or have at least had multiple reports on, quite a bit. And I don't see any reason to believe any of the optimistic views on the investor situation.

    Joe Mauer found out too. Instead of being surrounded by players who he could contend for a championship with he got Jamey Carroll, Kevin Correa, Mike Pelfrey etc. Nope. No tearing it down and no going all in for a title. We have history to tell us the direction of the Pohlads. 

    Why the word "REBUILD" is even used in an above comment is mystifying to me. Earth to fans...it is about taking off the debt and minimizing payroll. Pohlads and "rebuild" does not connect. The pohlads will not control this team in 2 to 3 years to even see a rebuild. The likelihood of a strike is imminent after the 2026 season. 

    11 hours ago, hitterscount said:

    I googled what he's making, it said he signed a 3/30 million $ contract in 2022.  It didn't mention a option , but if there was I'm guessing it wouldn't be a paycut.

     

     

    I cannot find that number anywhere, and it directly contradicts the story I quoted from Bob Nightengale from '23, so I'd really appreciate if you can provide a link.

    I'm super interested if he's actually making 10M/yr. If he's one of MLBs highest paid managers that might get me on the Fire Rocco train.

    Edit: I found the 3 yr 30M contract number. It was the AI generated result on Google. I looked at the source and the AI was erroneously pulling Christian Vasquez's 2022 contract number from Cot's Baseball Dictionary site.

    I still cannot find any actual real dollar figure for Rocco's manager contract.

    Not trying to hijack or anything, but an iterating set of articles

    https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/what-the-pirates-twins-finances-reveal-about-mlbs-revenue-divide/

     

    What The Pirates & Twins Finances Reveal About MLB’s Revenue Divide

    That is the name of the article. This is in case the link doesn’t work. 

    In the article click on the link about what the guy for DTSports had to say on Pittsburgh. The article they liked on the Twins is on the Athletic. Sometimes when an article is linked and you haven’t read a NYTimes publication for a month they let you read an Athletic article that is behind the paywall 

    What BaseballAmerica missed is that DT sports said that the Pittsburgh front office had somewhere around 140 employees. (The exact number escapes me, one too many numbers to remember The Twins have 329 listed on MLB.com. The non player expenditures for the Twins is likely far more than the 171 million that Pittsburgh spent, but not near the 270 million Atlanta spent.  All of this may give some light as to why the payroll is going down. 

    1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

    Please allow me to disagree. In a perfect world Ryan plus Ober brings back Nick Kurtz (not happening) or Ryan brings back someone like Max Clark or Jesus Made. The Twins need players who run, field, and hit. Currently, the roster includes one player who fits the standard, our oft-injured superstar centerfielder. 

    What we don't know is how other teams value the Twins players.

    I actually agree with this.  My real argument was that they were unlikely to bring back players/prospects who were likely to provide more value than they would by keeping them. 

    1 hour ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

    I actually agree with this.  My real argument was that they were unlikely to bring back players/prospects who were likely to provide more value than they would by keeping them. 

    In other words, you feel the front office doesn't possess the competence/knowledge/skills to complete transactions which return the talent for players such as Ryan, etc.?

    This would place the Twins between a rock and a hard place because the talent on hand won't cut it.

    10 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

    I actually agree with this.  My real argument was that they were unlikely to bring back players/prospects who were likely to provide more value than they would by keeping them. 

    Cleveland has repeatedly proven this to be untrue.  If we track their WAR  for all of their 90 win teams you will find players acquired as prospects produced more 44.5% of their WAR vs 25.5% from players drafted in the regular draft.  Their International draft is much higher than most teams primarily due to Jose Rameriz.  I would suggest the upside is considerably higher (as is the downside) with a prospect because you have them for 6 years.  Not only do you have 6-7 years of production vs 2,  You have far more opportunities to be a playoff team. 

    When quantifying value, is production for a team that does not make the playoffs as valuable as a team that does not make the playoffs?  I would argue production from Ryan and Lopez is likely to have reduced value.  

    Corey Kluber is a good example of upside.  He was acquired as a prospect, produced 34 WAR and was then traded for Emmanuel Clause.  Cliff Lee was acquired as a prospect.  He was later traded for Clevenger and Sizemore.  Our old friend Carlos Santana was also acquired as a prospect,

    BTW ... Jake Westbrook, the player Cleveland gave up for Kluber produced 2.7 WAS in 2 seasons with ST. Louis.  Trading for prospects can be a bust, but it has enormous upside I don't think you are recognizing.  




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