Past Front Offices Still Impacting the 2022 Twins

I have always gave credit to Smith for his signings of Sano, Kepler, and Polonco.  However, outside of those three signings, that most likely he personally had little to actually do with, he was the worst GM we had in my knowledge.  Terrible trades, terrible signings of other FA.  He was always in the hear and now, and never had a backup plan.  He also overvalued "closers". 

I always liked Ryan and thought he was a good judge of talent overall, but he was outdated when he returned to the game.  He was still thinking the game was played like in the 90's and early 2000's.  He had many misses in the draft too, but that happens with all GM's no one hits on every pick in the MLB draft first round or otherwise. 

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Bill Smith had that terrific international signing class, and basically nothing else. Completely whiffed on the biggest task he had and that was the Johan Santana situation. I think Smith was in way over his head, but leaving Sano, Kepler, and Jorge was certainly useful for Ryan and Falvey.

The Santana trade was brutal (should've just kept him for a year and taken the pick, given the unique contract demands of the situation) but at least Gomez because an above average MLBer (post-Twins).

I still shake my head at the Garza/Bartlett/Young/Harris/Pridie trade.

Ryan was a class act , he stayed when contractions were being discussed and he could have gone to Toronto  who did offer him the same position fir the blue jays ....

And he was a good judge of talent , he worked harder than any GM that I know of ,  he was always scouting the minor league games looking for talent  ....

Is he still with Philadelphia Phillies  , they hired him in 2021 ????

Ryan's second stint signaled  the change in philosophy from "pitch to contact" and hit to the opposite field to power pitching and hitting.  Most of the results of those changes came after his departure.

1 hour ago, dxpavelka said:

Ryan's second stint signaled  the change in philosophy from "pitch to contact" and hit to the opposite field to power pitching and hitting.  Most of the results of those changes came after his departure.

You bring up a very interesting point (at least to me).  Pitch to contact, hit to the opposite field, sacrificing runners along, stealing bases and using the hit and run,,,,,,,,,,,,,vs..........., power pitching (leading to more arm injuries and huge pitching staffs), launch angles for more power hitting (leading to lower averages and more strike outs), refusing to bunt for sacrifices or hits, fewer walks and, basically, waiting for the home run to win the game.  We link Ryan/Smith to the first style and Falvey/Levine to the second.  I know I am going to be a minority of one on this page, but give me A over B every day of the year.  

16 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Terrible free agent signings? Smith did a good job with a limited budget. A budget he elevated through the retention of key players who didn't make it to free agency like Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer and Nathan. Smith brought in Orlando Hudson, Joe Crede, Jim Thome and Carl Pavano and all wound up being good free agent signings.

The waterfall of trades wound up being pretty poor as Smith continued to lose ground with each step. It's not like all his trades were bad, though, or super impactful. Smith brought in Orlando Cabrera in 2009 which was a good move. Gomez for Hardy was a good trade. It was the Hardy for Hoey trade which was terrible, but as I recall, Gardy was a driving force on getting rid of Hardy. Capps for Ramos got the most vitriol, but Ramos never really amounted to anything due to injuries and Capps was very good down the stretch for the Twins in 2010 who were relying on the very shaky Jon Rauch to close games at the time.

Honestly, the Capps for Ramos trade and the singular bad season in 2011 seemed to cement Twins fans' opinions on Smith who became the scapegoat for poor decisions by Ryan in 2012 and later.

You seem to have some rose colored glasses on some of those transactions.  First Hudson was 2.9 WAR in his one year with Twins.  Good, but not great.  He was smart enough not to sign him beyond 1 year, but not like he made some super find, he just got a guy at end of career that had 1 last decent season in him.  Crede played his final year with us to a tune of 2.3 WAR, with .9 from offense.  Again, not like he lit the world on fire with Twins he was just above replacement. Simply because a guy was not a 100% bust does not make him a good signing.  Both played 1 year with Twins.

Thome was a good signing overall, but he blew the trade when he shipped Thome out.  Pavano had a good year for us, an okay year for us, and 2 half years that was not good. The trade and subsequent signing of Capps was terrible.  He had one good half year, but he gave up a top prospect catcher for a good couple months for a closer, with two follow up terrible years.  The issue was he overpaid for Capps.  Yes, you can say Ramos never did become amazing, but at the time Smith could have got much more for Ramos.  While we talk about trades, lets talk about giving up Bartlet and Garza for Young, that was terrible.  The Gomez for Hardy I was all for and loved it, until we signed nishi and traded Hardy for two terrible bullpen arms.  Smith kept trading away high value guys, for low value guys. 

As I said I give Smith some credit for talent he brought in, but as a whole his time with Twins was filled with mostly bad moves that kept piling on.  The Joe signing did not end up being great as the last few years the contract was paying him too much money for the lower output of a first baseman.  I was fine with the signing though knowing that would happen at the end of it.  Smith also blew the Santana trade, he could have got much better players than basically Gomez, who would have been fine if the end of that trade did not end up with 2 terrible bullpen guys that did nothing. He basically traded Santana for nothing when it was all said and done. 

On 5/12/2022 at 1:17 AM, Mark G said:

You bring up a very interesting point (at least to me).  Pitch to contact, hit to the opposite field, sacrificing runners along, stealing bases and using the hit and run,,,,,,,,,,,,,vs..........., power pitching (leading to more arm injuries and huge pitching staffs), launch angles for more power hitting (leading to lower averages and more strike outs), refusing to bunt for sacrifices or hits, fewer walks and, basically, waiting for the home run to win the game.  We link Ryan/Smith to the first style and Falvey/Levine to the second.  I know I am going to be a minority of one on this page, but give me A over B every day of the year.  

Actually the organizational philosophy change occurred when Ryan took over for the second time but few of the players manifested it at the big league level until after he was gone.