It Would Be Irresponsible for the Twins to Not Make Joe Ryan Available This Offseason: Part 1

First of all there is no trade or don't trade of Ryan. He would have been gone at the deadline. Because his fiance was pregnant they waited till now. He is not going to waste another year pitching for a last place team. He wants to win now not years from now. With his personality he would be another Sonny Gray in the dugout. He's preferred team is probably the Giants or the Padres because he is from California. And yes the organization can trade him to whom ever they want but he has been a team guy up to now.

Make him available?  Sure. Yeah.  Whatever.  Trade him?  Not for anything less than a king's ransom.

4 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

I don’t trade either - spend up to $130M and win the Division.

If that is possible - do it.

I look at the starting lineups of Toronto and Los Angeles and go back to picking teams position by position like we did as 8 year olds. Buxton is the sole pick from the Twins in that comparison. If you look at Seattle, you take all of their guys before a Twin. When you look at Detroit, you take only Buxton from the Twins. If people are being open minded and fair, the Twins are in need of position players.

The purge in late July added prospects of unknown quality but potential nonetheless. I'm afraid the swing continues in a rebuild. The history of the past 40 plus years makes me skeptical of the Twins spending money to upgrade the roster.

What people have long since forgotten is that Calvin Griffith lived and died for baseball and he put every dollar he had into the team. He never lived in super fancy homes or spent lavishly on cars or clothes. The guy was a dinosaur. I write that not to defend or approve of Calvin, but to remind us that the current owners of the Twins look at the team as a business to serve their interests. I very much doubt they attended several dozen minor league games last summer familiarizing themselves with their corporate assets. 

All signs point to a lower payroll and change, which may include a number of trades. Joe Ryan is the Twins most interesting pitcher but he may also make the team better by being the guy going in return for a significant player. 

I understand there is zero chance I know what value another team places on Ryan or what gambles another team might see as feasible in any trade. Like everyone else, I look around MLB and try to guess. Among a dozen thoughts I wonder if Sacramento is interested. Would the Athletics, looking for stalwart pitchers, consider a trade of Ryan and Roden for Soderstrom? Like all ideas, it is just a thought. I don't want Ryan in a different uniform but it seems like a fate unavoidable.

59 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Good catching prospects almost ready for the majors cost a fortune. You take that every time.

the Twins have shown capability to develop pitchers. Not so much hitters.

The Twins history does not support your statement that the Twins develop pitchers and not hitters, iit is actually the opposite. 

13 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Meanwhile outside of Buxton pretty much every hitter has consistently regressed to the point where they are DFA fodder, with a pair of LHH prospects on the near horizon but very little ready to supplant 5-6 hitters that are currently DFA fodder. No 1b, no SS, no catcher 2 in a 50/50 tandem, huge question at 3B and 2B, one or both of corner OF needing to be replaced, and St Paul looking devoid of hitting and fielding talent.

Sadly, this is exactly why the Twins almost certainly need to acquire something good in any deal that includes Ryan .... or Lopez.

3 hours ago, Jeff K said:

Twins need to listen, but should not be enticed by prospects.  They need players who can contribute at the major league level.  Pretty much anywhere on the infield.

No team wanting and trading for Ryan is gonna want to part with legitimate major league talent. The Twins only maximize his value by getting 2 near ready guys and a few lotto ticket prospects. Unless the Orioles are willing to part with Rutschman, Mayo and a lotto ticket and the Twins add in SWR or another back end SP I don’t see how a “baseball” trade works out. I’m not sure they see Basallo as a full time catcher. Maybe the Twins go all out and do Pablo and Ryan to the Orioles. Then I’m asking for Rutschman, Mayo, Bradfield Jr. and Forret as the ML/near ML guys with Aracena and Morfe as the 2 lower level lotto tickets. Rutschman has 3 more years of control. Mayo is a beast and just needs to hit ML pitching. A high ceiling low floor guy. The rest are solid prospects. I don’t see any other teams offering ML for ML trades but the Orioles are like the Twins and might wanna shake things up.

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

Maybe the 6th time in last 5 weeks I’ve stated this, the $425M infusion that garnered 20+% of the ownership stake wasn’t a charitable donation. Cannot make that move w/o an expectation that the Team will be made marketable by acquiring some talent. Can’t invest those $$ and know the fan base hates the current product, as is, without some positive changes on the near-term horizon.

I don’t expect Big Name signings but 4-5 FA’s can blend with the current core and make a run at the Division Title. C - 1B - PEN (2-3).

Rotation is in decent shape, talent wise.

There are 2-3 guys back in the PEN ……. another 2-3 to consider ……… 2-3 young arms that can be blended into Relief role …… 2-3 FA’s and the PEN is more than adequate.

To me, if $$ are the chief issue, you don’t trade the $5.8M guy and keep the $22M guy when both have ”like effectiveness”. Lopez on the trade block would have Team’s salivating at a known cost for a couple more years.

I don’t trade either - spend up to $130M and win the Division.

I believe you are mostly right on this. Everyone points to logic that if the Twins trade Ryan or Lopez then why not tear it all down. That makes sense but for one fact. Pohlads still own this team and the Twins have never done a full tear down. Even when it would’ve benefited them in terms of competitiveness faster. Why? Marketability. The 90’s and 2010’s teams were slowly torn down and kept players that would have fetched prospect hauls. Instead Pohlad owned teams held on to stars through their declining years in order to still keep a couple faces and hold a death grip on what was. Why, to hold some semblance of what was to put fans in the stands even when the team wasn’t competitive. Puckett, Hrbek, Harper, Knoblauch(until he requested a trade) and Tapani and Erickson of the 90’s. Held on to for way too long. Didn’t maximize what they could have got back. Mauer, Morneau, Willingham, Span, Revere, Diamond and Perkins. All held onto too long when a total tear down would have accelerated the rebuild. Teams that did total tear downs? Astros( we all know how that went) and the Cubs (rebuilt fast and won it in  ‘16) meanwhile the Twins prolonged they’re rebuild only to flounder ‘19-‘23 and here we are. Astros dynasty is closing and the cubs are just coming out of their 2nd retool. Why? Cause a Pohlad owned team will never just blow it up when they probably should.

It always seems counterintuitive to me to finally develop a quality starting pitcher, and then almost immediately start shopping him around.  But that's the reality.  If they were serious about building a starting pitching staff that could contend, then Ryan would be a part of it.  Instead, it feels like an old Tarzan movie with the team slowly sinking into the quicksand.  Nothing will be left behind but the Twins cap.

I think what happens with Ryan is going to say a LOT about what Falvey thinks of his home-grown roster.  If he trades Ryan it's b/c he doesn't think his roster (the one HE built) can't compete.  If he (mistakenly?) thinks it can, then I don't see why you would trade a very cost effective #2 starter.

I think Ryan gets traded and then we get to hear Falvey's word salad sermon about it being a move to improve the team now and in the future.  

After the train wreck from the deadline sell-off, gutting the team from competing for years. It only makes sense to trade Ryan. But the one responsible for trading away those well-proven MLB players for unproven, undeveloped, AAAA, redundant players/prospects, while not filling any essential pre-trade need. Will be responsible for trading away Ryan. So, I say no thank you! I'd rather keep Ryan & have some respectability than further bloating the farm & 40-man with these same players that Falvey loves to hoard.

Many fans point to many teams that could really use Ryan; very well, you do need trading partners (that wouldn't be hard to do). But they totally miss what the Twins need? The top of the priority list is 2 young, promising MLB-ready catchers (they needed 1 for years). Up to now, they have failed. They talk about being creative. I doubt they know what that means.

Any Mets trade has to include McLean as far as I am concerned.  They need pitching coming back.  

Well, the title says you're asking for it on this site...

I'd add the Brewers as a potential trade partner. If they keep Peralta and want to push it for a title Ryan is a perfect fit. Cheap next year and tradeable after that. Plus, they have big prospects. 

To me the Red Six don't line up very well. LOTS of great OF....prospects...I see it on BTV lots. Why would the Twins want more OF prospects. Abreu...he a platoon OF. We need more of those???

They Yankees probably would rather get Buxton then Ryan.

The Padres don't have any prospects unless you want a young catcher who's looking a lot like the dodger one, we released earlier this season.

Mets. OK there a good chance there to find something that works for both teams.

Mets, Brewers and Giants. That'd be the ones I think have the will and the players to make it happen. Otherwise wait till the trade deadline.

9 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Mets offer seems to be maxing out at:

Jett Williams - near MLB ready SS/2B/CF that would slot ahead of Culpepper as the Twins #2 prospect 

Ryan Clifford - near MLB ready 1B prospect (and he is a redhead so the Clifford The Big Red Dawg merch is just waiting to be printed) 

+1 more 40 FV prospect of your choosing 

As both a Twins and Mets fan, I think this is a Twins trade win. Jett can be a real dynamic player as soon as next season. He struggled a bit when he got to AAA but on a team in need, could start the year in the bigs. He's the type of player that would fit in perfectly with the Brewers. 

But, I don't expect this trade to even be discussed until the league knows what's happening with Skubal. 

 

Well....I'd much rather take Nolan McLean and Clifford.  Why or why do we need another SS?  Of CFer?  

10 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Mets offer seems to be maxing out at:

Jett Williams - near MLB ready SS/2B/CF that would slot ahead of Culpepper as the Twins #2 prospect 

Ryan Clifford - near MLB ready 1B prospect (and he is a redhead so the Clifford The Big Red Dawg merch is just waiting to be printed) 

+1 more 40 FV prospect of your choosing 

As both a Twins and Mets fan, I think this is a Twins trade win. Jett can be a real dynamic player as soon as next season. He struggled a bit when he got to AAA but on a team in need, could start the year in the bigs. He's the type of player that would fit in perfectly with the Brewers. 

But, I don't expect this trade to even be discussed until the league knows what's happening with Skubal. 

 

I hadn't heard there were any conversations. Who had that idea? Perhaps the Twins and Mets will have some conversations, maybe not at all, but I would be totally shocked by the above suggested deal. Where did you find that one?

I'd add LAD to the list. Some intriguing OF prospects and maybe still pry a guy like Rushing away. As someone mentioned, Detroit too. They also have some pieces that would work. 

9 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Everything depends on strategy. I don't really trust Falvey can build an effective one.

Quotes from owner representative Joe Pohlad suggest there could be a rebuild coming in which case, yes, Joe Ryan 100% SHOULD be traded for whatever the team can get, not just "made available"

On the other hand, ownership statements carry absolutely zero credibility now. It was already weak since the Pohlads just simply will not do their job and hold the front office accountable. Nobody in professional gets the kind of leash Falvey has gotten. It's absolutely ludicrous a GM/President of Baseball Operations or whatever the heck you want to call him can be given so many resources, so much support, so much inherited talent and then produce nothing noteworthy year in and year out in what has been the weakest division in the game for a decade.

If Ryan is traded, the trade needs to happen in December so Falvey doesn't screw it up yet again by overpricing, then waiting too long before finding himself out of suitors who can really pay. I don't think Falvey has the talent for his position so I believe ownership will need to provide him a specific deadline to move Ryan or Falvey absolutely will fail again like he did with other valuable, controllable, established talent like Dozier, Kepler and Polanco. The risk of holding onto Ryan into camp reporting date is gargantuan. 

 

Lots of interesting takes.  None more insightful than bean5302.  I have always complained that Twins Front Offices, whether it was the old Terry Ryan regime or the latest Twins executives, NEVER seemed to have a "Plan" going into the off season or the trade deadline.  We always seemed RE-active rather than PRO-active

We've heard from past and present FO's that there were no restrictions on the FO from making a trade to improve the team.  Yet we as fans could see that to believe the "company line" was illogical.  

This lack of a clear plan left the Twins with some strange off season additions (Joey Gallo, Mike Shoemaker, the list is LONG) or deadline deals that had no impact or that were made just to say "see, we did something."  This is the path of a FO that really doesn't have a plan.  And the Pohlad family has never seemed to hold a FO accountable.  This would be a large indicator of why their other business interests are not doing well.  

This is always why we feel the team is dumpster diving.  You dumpster dive if you have no alternative.  If you have enough money to go to McDonald's and buy a cheeseburger off the value menu, you don't dumpster dive.  If you have enough money to go to Pittsburg Blue, you don't consider the value menu at McDonalds.  

The Front Offices of the Twins have repeatedly lied and the Pohlad family has repeatedly lied to Twins fans. There is no logical reason to trust them or trust they will make a deal for Ryan that would be beneficial.  

But even though they don't "HAVE" to trade Ryan they have a chance to make a deal to significantly improve the team.  They should be trading from a position of strength with Joe Ryan.  If they aren't getting what they want from a team, hang up the phone and move on.  Bean5302 is correct, they should trade him in December either AT the Winter Meetings or shortly thereafter.  

The idea that we should not expect an accomplished, productive major league player as PART of the package is essential.  Prospects will always be a part of a trade like this.  But the Twins need to find a good, young major league hitter who is also a good defender to enhance their lineup.  Someone who fits the profile of,  but not necessarily  "IS"  Wilyer Abreu of the Red Sox.  The Red Sox have too many OF.  They can't play them all, even if they DH one of them.  Abreu has won a Gold Glove.  His career OPS is .791.  He will turn 27 years old mid-2026 season.  

It isn't necessary to make the Ryan trade the 1st trade of this off season, but his trade should be the foundation for all the other moves the Twins make.  Making a trade or 2 before trading Ryan reshapes who we might be interested in for other trades.  It makes other deals possible.  

Note:  Seth, I think you meant to type LOGAN Webb (SP Giants) not Brandon.  And if you're going to mention Tong in the list of pitchers the Mets have, you certainly need to mention Nolan McLean.  

I imagine we will revisit this topic multiple times between now and the New Year.  

5 hours ago, SteveLV said:

Any Mets trade has to include McLean as far as I am concerned.  They need pitching coming back.  

As a Twins fan that would be great! 

As a Mets fan, that's a ****ing ridiculous request. Seriously, there is absolutely no chance the #1 or #2 pitching prospect is coming back. Get your expectations in check. 

2 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

I hadn't heard there were any conversations. Who had that idea? Perhaps the Twins and Mets will have some conversations, maybe not at all, but I would be totally shocked by the above suggested deal. Where did you find that one?

I'm sorry you took it as official chatter. I'm just saying, that's the absolute max the Mets would offer. 

3 hours ago, JADBP said:

Well....I'd much rather take Nolan McLean and Clifford.  Why or why do we need another SS?  Of CFer?  

A. There's zero percent chance Nolan McLean would be traded straight up for Joe Ryan. So forget that idea. 

B. The Twins will not be at all competitive with Brooks Lee as their SS. 

I have no desire to see Ryan traded. Too many Twins trades seem to result in a downgraded team, and that's not what I'm looking forward too. Could they trade Ryan for Arraez? Of course not. The Twins should just stand pat and let's see if Ryan had a great season last year because Pablo was injured. I think that Ryan can keep it up, is still relativley cheap to keep and it would be irresponsible to trade him for what the Twins would get in return. The FO should focus on getting a new manager who can make some magic happen with what he'll have to work with. Give them hell Joe!

As I mentioned above any offer needs to be for a king's ransom.  The team making the offer had better be bringing their # 1 prospect (top 10 MLB) their 2nd or 3rd prospect (MLB top 25) and another top 6 prospect (MLB top 100)  Most of the teams that would be in the market don't have guys who fit into those criteria.  At the end of the day, I'm out.

Our starting pitching is our only strength.  Why tear that apart too?  That would be irresponsible.

Quote

 

19 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

If that is possible - do it.

I look at the starting lineups of Toronto and Los Angeles and go back to picking teams position by position like we did as 8 year olds. Buxton is the sole pick from the Twins in that comparison. If you look at Seattle, you take all of their guys before a Twin. When you look at Detroit, you take only Buxton from the Twins. If people are being open minded and fair, the Twins are in need of position players.

The purge in late July added prospects of unknown quality but potential nonetheless. I'm afraid the swing continues in a rebuild. The history of the past 40 plus years makes me skeptical of the Twins spending money to upgrade the roster.

What people have long since forgotten is that Calvin Griffith lived and died for baseball and he put every dollar he had into the team. He never lived in super fancy homes or spent lavishly on cars or clothes. The guy was a dinosaur. I write that not to defend or approve of Calvin, but to remind us that the current owners of the Twins look at the team as a business to serve their interests. I very much doubt they attended several dozen minor league games last summer familiarizing themselves with their corporate assets. 

All signs point to a lower payroll and change, which may include a number of trades. Joe Ryan is the Twins most interesting pitcher but he may also make the team better by being the guy going in return for a significant player. 

I understand there is zero chance I know what value another team places on Ryan or what gambles another team might see as feasible in any trade. Like everyone else, I look around MLB and try to guess. Among a dozen thoughts I wonder if Sacramento is interested. Would the Athletics, looking for stalwart pitchers, consider a trade of Ryan and Roden for Soderstrom? Like all ideas, it is just a thought. I don't want Ryan in a different uniform but it seems like a fate unavoidable.

We had previously discussed the A's & I like Soderstrom as a young hitter, he could step in as our starting 1B.  IMO Joe Ryan gets us more than Soderstrom. I like where you're going because as mentioned before, the A's should be a good trade partner for the Twins if we move either Lopez or Ryan. With all of the talented young position players they have & likely only 1 or 2 pitchers away it seems to be a good match.

Who knows what the Twins FO is thinking though. Maybe they're looking to compete in '26, which is actually what I'd like to see. If they can invest in the on field product they're not nearly as far away from being competitive as many seem to think. Of course the ownership & FO don't inspire much confidence that they will spend & if they do, they'll make good decisions.

12 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

Lots of interesting takes.  None more insightful than bean5302.  I have always complained that Twins Front Offices, whether it was the old Terry Ryan regime or the latest Twins executives, NEVER seemed to have a "Plan" going into the off season or the trade deadline.  We always seemed RE-active rather than PRO-active

We've heard from past and present FO's that there were no restrictions on the FO from making a trade to improve the team.  Yet we as fans could see that to believe the "company line" was illogical.  

This lack of a clear plan left the Twins with some strange off season additions (Joey Gallo, Mike Shoemaker, the list is LONG) or deadline deals that had no impact or that were made just to say "see, we did something."  This is the path of a FO that really doesn't have a plan.  And the Pohlad family has never seemed to hold a FO accountable.  This would be a large indicator of why their other business interests are not doing well.  

This is always why we feel the team is dumpster diving.  You dumpster dive if you have no alternative.  If you have enough money to go to McDonald's and buy a cheeseburger off the value menu, you don't dumpster dive.  If you have enough money to go to Pittsburg Blue, you don't consider the value menu at McDonalds.  

The Front Offices of the Twins have repeatedly lied and the Pohlad family has repeatedly lied to Twins fans. There is no logical reason to trust them or trust they will make a deal for Ryan that would be beneficial.  

But even though they don't "HAVE" to trade Ryan they have a chance to make a deal to significantly improve the team.  They should be trading from a position of strength with Joe Ryan.  If they aren't getting what they want from a team, hang up the phone and move on.  Bean5302 is correct, they should trade him in December either AT the Winter Meetings or shortly thereafter.  

The idea that we should not expect an accomplished, productive major league player as PART of the package is essential.  Prospects will always be a part of a trade like this.  But the Twins need to find a good, young major league hitter who is also a good defender to enhance their lineup.  Someone who fits the profile of,  but not necessarily  "IS"  Wilyer Abreu of the Red Sox.  The Red Sox have too many OF.  They can't play them all, even if they DH one of them.  Abreu has won a Gold Glove.  His career OPS is .791.  He will turn 27 years old mid-2026 season.  

It isn't necessary to make the Ryan trade the 1st trade of this off season, but his trade should be the foundation for all the other moves the Twins make.  Making a trade or 2 before trading Ryan reshapes who we might be interested in for other trades.  It makes other deals possible.  

Note:  Seth, I think you meant to type LOGAN Webb (SP Giants) not Brandon.  And if you're going to mention Tong in the list of pitchers the Mets have, you certainly need to mention Nolan McLean.  

I imagine we will revisit this topic multiple times between now and the New Year.  

 

What a fantastic comment TopGunn, thanks.

Have been on the road the past couple days so am late looking at this.  What a wonderful conversation.  Hopefully, someone in the front office is reading this.

Will begin with a question for those talking about trading him next summer or next winter.  Until there is a settlement on a new CBA, next winter very likely doesn't exist.  So for me, that makes a move this winter more important if trading Ryan is near the top of their off-season plan.  That's assuming they have a plan.  And if there is no baseball in 2027, they really have him for only one more year.  Not two.

We read nearly every day in some article here and elsewhere about the Pohlad's being cheap.  But that's not their biggest problem.  At least in my opinion.  Their biggest problem for me is not holding Falvey and the front office accountable.  Why do I say that?  In part because too many of their trades have returned pitchers who have been injured when acquired.  It began at the deadline several years back when they got that Giants reliever who pitched what, a couple innings?  Then there was Mahle from Cincinnati.  And that was followed by the Polanco trade with another starter who never pitched an inning.  Fool the front office once, ok.  But three times in about as many years in baseball is a big K.

While reading the above comments I also began thinking about their catching situation.  They have a need for a backup catcher in 2026.  Several comments suggest part of a Ryan trade should return a big league ready catcher.  Got me wondering why because they have Tait?  But Tait is one to two years away and in better fits the plan as a Jeffers replacement.  So getting a catcher this off-season does make sense.  A lot of sense, although it doesn't have to be part of a Ryan trade.  Could also be the return for say Larnach, or Larnach plus one of our catching prospects not named Tiat or Jiminez.