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    Cubs 8, Twins 2: Joe Ryan Leaves Early, Lots of Things Fall Apart At Once


    Theodore Tollefson

    Start went crazy; the rubber match went snap. Now we have to find out who'll hold it down til Ryan gets back.

    Image courtesy of David Banks

    Twins Video

    Box Score
    Starting Pitcher:
    Joe Ryan 2 IP, 1 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 2 K (33 pitches, 22 strikes (66.7% strikes))
    Home Runs: None
    Top 3 WPA: Max Kepler .143, Matt Wallner .089, Carlos Santana .034, 
    Bottom 3 WPA: Trevor Richards -.347, Willi Castro -.100, Austin Martin -.094

    Win Probability Chart (via FanGraphs)
    Screenshot2024-08-07162243.png.9e3354a076357b1e69681f43d5736bc1.png

    Getting Runs Early 
    Following Tuesday night’s 8-3 loss, the Twins bats determined to get on the board early in this one. Trevor Larnach drew a one-out walk in the top of the first, and two batters later, Matt Wallner drilled an RBI double to right-center to drive him in and put the Twins up 1-0.

    That lead was shortlived, but the Twins offense continued to be a thorn in Cubs starter Javier Assad’s side. Carlos Santana and Max Kepler led off the second with back-to-back singles. With one out, Brooks Lee was up. He battled out a 12-pitch at-bat and managed an RBI groundout to score Santana and give the Twins back the lead again. 

    The Joe Ryan Experience Makes a Sudden Stop
    Joe Ryan had heavy expectations on him on Wednesday afternoon. He’d be making the Twins' last start before a four-game series against the Guardians at home, and he needed to do his part to ensure a win before a pivotal series for the American League Central takes place.

    Ryan struck out Ian Happ on three quick pitches to begin the game. The next batter, Cubs first baseman and Minnesota native Michael Busch, would not make things so easy. On a 2-2 count, Ryan threw a 94.1 MPH fastball right down the middle for Busch, who crushed it for a solo home run to right-center field.

    Ryan would have a quick 10-pitch, 1-2-3 second inning. But things turned for the worse in the third. After throwing only four pitches to Pete Crow-Armstrong, Ryan had a visit on the mound from Twins trainer Nick Paparesta. Whatever Ryan felt on the previous two pitches didn’t sit right with him, and Ryan removed himself from the game after facing only eight batters. He was diagnosed with triceps tightness, which could mean any number of things. Now, we wait.

    Unexpected Bullpen Game
    Trevor Richards was the first man out of the Twins bullpen following Ryan’s exit from the game. He came in inheriting a 1-2 count on Crow-Armstrong, threw two balls outside the strike zone, then allowed a base hit into right field to get one of the Cubs' deadliest baserunners on. 

    Things would not get any easier for Richards, as his command of the strike zone was not there. He walked three batters in the bottom of the third, including a bases-loaded freebie to Seiya Suzuki that tied the game. Suzuki’s RBI walk was followed by a sacrifice fly from Isaac Parades that gave the Cubs a 3-2 lead.

    Richards did not even make it out of the third inning after throwing 41 pitches, walking five batters, and having only 17 of those 41 pitches landed for strikes. 

    Cole Sands came into the game to mop up Richards's mess, getting Dansby Swanson to ground out and keep the Twins out of further damage only trailing 4-2.

    Sands would remain on for the fourth, and while his command of the strike zone was much better than Richards's, the results were just as bad. After Christian Bethancourt hit a one-out double, Happ drilled a 96.5 MPH fastball down and in for a two-run shot to extend the Cubs lead to 6-2. Fortunately, Sands would regain his composure and avert any further damage as he retired the final two batters.

    Josh Winder threw only 10 pitches to get the Twins through the fifth without the deficit growing. He remained in the game for the bottom half of the sixth and was once again perfect, getting a groundout and two strikeouts on just 13 pitches. He did allow a hit in the seventh, but held Chicago scoreless for a third frame in a row. In the meantime, though, zeros piled up on the Twins' row of the scoreboard.

    Caleb Thielbar was the Twins' last man out of the bullpen Wednesday, and things did not go well for him. The Cubs managed to get three hits and score two more insurance runs off him, all but securing their win with an 8-2 lead. 

    Bats go Cold After Ryan's Exit 
    While the Twins were able to get at least one base runner in each inning from the 4th to the 6th, they managed to leave each runner stranded. Kepler drew a walk in the fourth and was left behind, José Miranda had a two-out double in the fifth, but saw no help from Wallner who struck out swinging. Santana had his second hit of the game in the sixth, but was left stranded.
    The trend continued into the seventh inning, as Lee had a leadoff single, but was out on a force out at second hit by Willi Castro.

    Aside from Austin Martin getting hit by a pitch in the top of the ninth, the Twins combined to go 0-for-6 with no base runners in the last two innings, leaving five runners on base after Ryan's departure.

    Other Notes
    Ryan’s injury exit from the game was announced to be a right triceps injury. This was the first time all season Ryan left a game due to injury. More details are to come following the Twins postgame.

    What’s Next? 
    The Twins are off on Thursday but will return home for their biggest series of the summer against the Cleveland Guardians. They will play a doubleheader Friday against Cleveland with Bailey Ober and Louie Varland as their starters. The Twins have yet to announce who is starting which game. Game 1 starts at 4:10 p.m.

    Postgame Interview 
    Coming soon.

    Bullpen Usage Spreadsheet
    Screenshot2024-08-07161851.png.c812ee270f0db0f38e6a652daee059fd.png

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    1 hour ago, Aggies7 said:

    Is the coaching staff ever going to step in and figure out how to stop teams from running at will on the twins? The twins entered today with the 7th most SBs allowed per game. Add 4 on from today. It’s a huge problem and nobody seems to be doing anything about it. We don’t even make it close most of the time.

    Not really buying into the coaching staff being at fault…….separately, would have been nice to see Ryan Jeffers block one ball and keep it in front of him…..I watched 3 innings and there were 4 balls that got past him - understood that Richards didn’t help with his control (no control) but a guy has to smother one of four!

    Why do we think the coaching staff and not the players are responsible for stopping an opponent’s running game? These guys are professional baseball players - it’s not about coaching, to me.

    55 minutes ago, singlesoverwalks said:

    Seems kind of passive-aggressive of Rocco to put in Richard's there. Like "Look what you made me do." "Oh, why don't I put in the reliever you got us at the trade deadline--ope! Didn't see THAT coming."

    I was thinking the exact same thing! Feel the same way about Rocco's irrational use of Margot. Like he's not going to hide the terrible FO decisions for them.

    42 minutes ago, South Dakota Tom said:

    So I get using Varland Friday with Ober as he’s 27th man.  Does Festa pitch Saturday then and SWR on Sunday?  Push Lopez back to Monday against the Royals….we still need a starter for Tuesday before getting back to regular rest (assuming, I guess, that Joe will miss a turn).  Votes?  Bullpen game seems like a stretch looking at the usage chart above.

    Pretty sure that SWR is up Saturday & Festa on Sunday.

    Lopez to start the K.C. series as those games are just as important!

    Tuesday is either Josh Winder as an opener or Zebby Matthews………don’t know of any other choices. PLEASE nobody suggest Dobnak start a game.

    2 hours ago, Verified Member said:

    And to think, based on yesterday’s game thread Randy Dobnak pitching three innings was the worst thing in the world.

    Yeah…trying to win each game is really stupid.

    18 minutes ago, NotAboutWinning said:

    I was thinking the exact same thing! Feel the same way about Rocco's irrational use of Margot. Like he's not going to hide the terrible FO decisions for them.

    That's an interesting perspective.   I don't see that Rocco has any visable passive agressive or coniving traits.   I could be presently surprised though.

    1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

    He has as long as needed to warm up, right?

    If Winder can't be used in a relief role, even when he has unlimited warm up time, why is he in the pen?

    How long did he warm up for his eventual appearance?

    I mean, it's a bad situation, I agree. But inserting a short reliever just seems an odd choice.

     

    I was on the road and listening on the radio  , both atterbury  and gladden said winder will be coming in  after Ryan departed  with injury  ...

    All of a sudden  it's richards warming up and I was fricken pissed , a new guy we don't know much about and he's a 2 pitch pitcher , Rocco or whoever  decision  was the worst blunder of the year  ...

    A 2 pitch pitcher with 7 innings to go , then Rocco leaves him in crossing  his fingers  that he could eat some innings  , I understand eat innings but when a guy has no control  , you can pull him after 3 batters  ....

    I think gardenhire has put in his dues with the twins in Saint Paul and it's time to promote  , we need a better major league manager  ...

    Just when my excitement for the team soared after the 5 game winning streak .

    I never listen to Rocco pre or post game interviews , so I don't know what his reason was for bringing in a 2 pitch pitcher that early in the game ...

    Man that pisses  me off , Worst blunder of the year  , I'd like to hear what falvy has to say about his prize addition to the bullpen ...

    I feel better now ...

    1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

    Not only would it have been nice to have some serious long relief here to put in some serious innings to take care of the bleeding but also some long relief could have possibly prevented it from happening. I have been preaching this for years but nobody listens. If Dobnak can't do it bring up Varland now. I really didn't want him to have be used strictly as a SP when we desperately need him in long relief but we might not have a choice. When the bleeding starts it sometimes hard to stop it.

    Couldn't agree more about varland to the pen , with little depth in the starting pitcher department  , Louie  is starting 1 of the doubleheader games  , so let's hope he has a great start ...

    But it weakens that bullpen we had for September and the playoffs last year ...

    Long reliefers  Winder or Sands should have came in after Joe's injury  today ...

    You'd think the coach (Baldelli) would try having the hitter bunt or steal bases to manufacture runs, but he doesn't. The Twins show signs of greatness when they have all their guys on the field but when not they get blown out regularly. You cannot expect to win without your best 3 players sitting out all the time. 

    Postseason chances %0.0001

    1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

    Not really buying into the coaching staff being at fault…….separately, would have been nice to see Ryan Jeffers block one ball and keep it in front of him…..I watched 3 innings and there were 4 balls that got past him - understood that Richards didn’t help with his control (no control) but a guy has to smother one of four!

    Why do we think the coaching staff and not the players are responsible for stopping an opponent’s running game? These guys are professional baseball players - it’s not about coaching, to me.

    Knowing when and how to call pitchouts….throw overs….coaching up pickoff moves or getting faster to the plate. We have no chance on most of the stolen bases we allow. They’re stolen on the pitcher.

    Especially with a guy like crow-Armstrong. Guy was running as soon as he got on base. Did we call a pitchout once? I honestly don’t even remember.

    37 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

    Knowing when and how to call pitchouts….throw overs….coaching up pickoff moves or getting faster to the plate. We have no chance on most of the stolen bases we allow. They’re stolen on the pitcher.

    Especially with a guy like crow-Armstrong. Guy was running as soon as he got on base. Did we call a pitchout once? I honestly don’t even remember.

    Have the Twins pitched out in Rocco's tenure?

     

     

    3 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

    To be fair, most clubs are going to struggle when losing their #2 starter

    Lots of clubs who are in the playoff chase have lost either their ace or their #2 for significant lengths of the season, if not the whole season. Yankees, Orioles, Guardians, Diamondbacks, Astros, Braves, Dodgers, etc. It's pretty common, but those teams stacked some high upside depth into their rotations at the beginning of the season or at the deadline so the losses of a top arm weren't necessarily as catastrophic. 

    Falvey prioritized depth players at the start of the season rather than front line starting pitching they needed. He gambled they'd be able to acquire what they needed during the season, but they they went cheap at the deadline, too.

    That said, losing Ryan for a short while may not even be a huge deal. Second half Joe Ryan results have been showing up for a while now. Last 8 starts: 4.60/3.10/3.27

    First Half Joe Ryan ERA/FIP/xFIP
    2022 - 2.99/3.99/4.75
    2023 - 3.70/3.47/3.64 
    2024 - 3.53/3.45/3.47

    Second Half Joe Ryan
    2022 - 4.14/3.99/3.92
    2023 - 6.09/5.43/3.99
    2024 - 3.99/3.41/3.20

    Still, losing him for more than a minimum stay would be potentially hard on the rotation. The available depth isn't fantastic. Varland, Dobnak, Matthews.

    1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

    Pretty sure that SWR is up Saturday & Festa on Sunday.

    Lopez to start the K.C. series as those games are just as important!

    Tuesday is either Josh Winder as an opener or Zebby Matthews………don’t know of any other choices. PLEASE nobody suggest Dobnak start a game.

    Winder isn't an option, I don't think. He hasn't thrown 3 innings or more in almost a year. Even last year, he was stretched out to long relief of 3.0-4.0 innings in just a couple games out of necessity as Winder was almost exclusively a 2.0 or less inning guy over the past 2 years.

    3 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

    Is the coaching staff ever going to step in and figure out how to stop teams from running at will on the twins? The twins entered today with the 7th most SBs allowed per game. Add 4 on from today. It’s a huge problem and nobody seems to be doing anything about it. We don’t even make it close most of the time.

    Too many times they dont even make a throw.

    24 minutes ago, mark sills said:

    still think our best next man up is in double A. Only pitcher we have under 2 for a era 7 innings pitched tonight, nine strikeouts with no runners past first base. Andrew Morris

    Its a big jump from AA to MLB

    1 hour ago, mark sills said:

    still think our best next man up is in double A. Only pitcher we have under 2 for a era 7 innings pitched tonight, nine strikeouts with no runners past first base. Andrew Morris

    I watched the Wichita game and Morris looked really good. I'm not sure he can jump to MLB.

    Probably the first time this season I get to defend Rocco and the coaching staff today. When Ryan goes down, you need someone who can get hot quickly. That may not be Sands, who may need longer. Yes, they do have as long as it takes to get warmed up on the game mound. But for those of you who watched the TV broadcast, LaTroy Hawkins discussed the difficulty and changes in routine of such an appearance and the pressure to be ready vs actually being ready to go. With 2 lefties, a switch hitter, and a righty, it would make sense to put in Richards as a short term solution to get through the inning and let Sands warm up as normal for the anticipation of pitching a multi inning outing to patch the game through. It didn’t go as planned obviously and Richards should have been replaced earlier when it was apparent he didn’t have control of one of his two pitches. But I still feel the decision to put Richards in at the moment was fine.

    5 hours ago, CharlieDee said:

    Richards gave one of the worst efforts I have ever seen.

    Let me preface this by saying: God bless the Diamondbacks!

    Charlie, I wholeheartedly agree about Richards’ performance tonight and criticize Baldelli for leaving him in so long. You’d almost think that yesterday at Wrigley was a split-squad spring training game wherein the staff was getting a long look at a new pitcher!

    When I'm about to besmirch him a bit I always give Baldelli his due: Rocco does some things well and he’ll likely finish his managerial career in the neighborhood of .550. Having said that, I also believe that his lineup wizardry is often inexplicably flawed; that he and his medical staff are very, very cautious; and that his misuse of his relief staff (I know he didn’t pick them, but still) is astounding at times.

    I’m not a medical doctor and even though I’m a member of the “rub some dirt on it and keep playing” generation, I do understand the need to exercise a degree of caution with injuries and to insure proper rest for all players during a grueling 162 game season. However, Twins’ players tend to hit the IL and then disappear like dissidents to Gulags under Stalin.

    I believe that Baldelli is almost fanatically determined to err on the side of caution (way on the side of caution?), and I think this propensity stems from the frustration he must still feel at having had a very promising MLB career cut short due to serious injuries, and certainly he was a very talented athlete. Tonight, for example, I have a suspicion that Buxton could have played (I think we’ll see him in fine fettle in center on Friday night) and I believe that he also erred in keeping young Lewis out of the lineup with an off day pending.

    Finally, regarding what I allege to be Rocco’s astounding misuse of the relief staff on occasion: while I might be convinced of the wisdom of tossing Richards into the breech under the duress of an injury to Ryan, leaving him in for an absolutely atrocious 40+ pitch, five walk, two wild pitch performance just boggles the mind.

    It boggles the mind…    

    13 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

    If you had Winder available to go 3 innings, why would you toss in the new guy who was unlikely to go multiple innings?

    edit: nevermind, I thought Richards had pitched on Monday but he hadn’t since Sunday. Although he’s not a longer relief type anyway

    Assumption on Richards remaining in the game, from Baldelli’s point of view, is he thought, just like everyone else watching, he can’t keep walking guys and this will be over in another pitch or two. The pitcher was terrible - no more be said.

    Winder to come in for 3 innings was great and in hindsight seems like it should have been the first move.

    Richards is hardly new to the game - I think he’s 31. He may be more suited to the situation for an inning because he can get loose quicker. Trying to buy some time to consider how to handle the next 6 innings.

    Yes, there’s a day off Thursday for the Pen - Friday though, is a doubleheader v. the key opponent in the Division/A.L. ……guys need to do their jobs on the field or it puts the Team in risk of taking a loss. Richards was brutal.

    Yankees lost 8-2 on Wednesday - doubt Boone was managing to lose the game or considered it a throw away game.

    11 hours ago, bean5302 said:

    I'd prefer Zebby Matthews to Varland, even with the rough AAA results. We'll almost certainly know who it will be by Friday, though. Both Matthews tomorrow and Varland (Friday) are coming up on their spot in the Saints rotation.

    By later Wednesday I think the decision was made for Varland on Friday / with Ober. Seems they have no choice but to use Matthews on Tuesday since nobody else will be rested enough.

    An aside: If Topa is ready in next 7-10 days…….Okert is back from his family leave……who gets removed from the Staff/Pen after Dobnak? Winder or Richards? …….obviously, if one of Winder or Richards has a great day or a poor day between now and decision time it will have a lot of weight in decision. 5 walks in an inning is tough to put out of your mind, regardless of whether you are the pitcher - manager - 3B or CF …….everyone’s thinking about THAT in his next outing.

    8 hours ago, knothole61 said:

    Let me preface this by saying: God bless the Diamondbacks!

    Charlie, I wholeheartedly agree about Richards’ performance tonight and criticize Baldelli for leaving him in so long. You’d almost think that yesterday at Wrigley was a split-squad spring training game wherein the staff was getting a long look at a new pitcher!

    When I'm about to besmirch him a bit I always give Baldelli his due: Rocco does some things well and he’ll likely finish his managerial career in the neighborhood of .550. Having said that, I also believe that his lineup wizardry is often inexplicably flawed; that he and his medical staff are very, very cautious; and that his misuse of his relief staff (I know he didn’t pick them, but still) is astounding at times.

    I’m not a medical doctor and even though I’m a member of the “rub some dirt on it and keep playing” generation, I do understand the need to exercise a degree of caution with injuries and to insure proper rest for all players during a grueling 162 game season. However, Twins’ players tend to hit the IL and then disappear like dissidents to Gulags under Stalin.

    I believe that Baldelli is almost fanatically determined to err on the side of caution (way on the side of caution?), and I think this propensity stems from the frustration he must still feel at having had a very promising MLB career cut short due to serious injuries, and certainly he was a very talented athlete. Tonight, for example, I have a suspicion that Buxton could have played (I think we’ll see him in fine fettle in center on Friday night) and I believe that he also erred in keeping young Lewis out of the lineup with an off day pending.

    Finally, regarding what I allege to be Rocco’s astounding misuse of the relief staff on occasion: while I might be convinced of the wisdom of tossing Richards into the breech under the duress of an injury to Ryan, leaving him in for an absolutely atrocious 40+ pitch, five walk, two wild pitch performance just boggles the mind.

    It boggles the mind…    

    I’ve said before that the overly cautious approaches to injuries is something that I think becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy with a lot of our guys. I think it gets to a point where players expect to come out of a game at the slightest injury, and may even expect to have a day or two off because of it. It’s a mindset. Injuries, actual ones, happen and obviously some things you can’t play through. But Rocco pops out of the dugout to check on a guy at the slightest awkwardness, hitch, blip, whatever. I feel the same about starting pitchers looking to be removed late in a game at the slightest bit of trouble. 
     

    If you have a culture where there’s nothing wrong with coming out of a game and/or missing a handful of games at the slightest bump, how could you expect the players to have a different attitude? Long story short: I think there’s quite a bit of coddling/babying/extreme cautiousness that goes on under this regime and I don’t think it helps. You’ve got to be tough to win, still, in this era of analytics and built in days off..

    15 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

    Pretty sure that SWR is up Saturday & Festa on Sunday.

    Lopez to start the K.C. series as those games are just as important!

    Tuesday is either Josh Winder as an opener or Zebby Matthews………don’t know of any other choices. PLEASE nobody suggest Dobnak start a game.

    I think you're probably right here. Varland comes up as the 27th man who pitches the second game Friday. He then goes back to St. Paul. SWR goes Saturday, Festa Sunday, Lopez Monday. Ober goes Wednesday so that leaves Tuesday to cover. Too soon to bring Varland back so I think they probably go with either Winder or Dobank as an opener in a bullpen game.

    The other wildcard here is  when they bring up Topa. You have to think that either Dobnak or Winder goes back to AAA to make room unless they decide to put Ryan on the IL. Based on the incredibly small sample size so far, the obvious choice to go back down is Dobnak.  My guess is they bring Topa up for the Cleveland series so my guess is that Ryan goes on the IL today or tomorrow for Topa and one of those two will be the opener next Tuesday. They're also going to have to make room for Okert soon. He has to come back from the bereavement list after seven days, which I think might be Tuesday the 13th but hopefully is Wednesday the 14th. Topa up today or tomorrow, then Okert for Winder or Dobnak next Tuesday or Wednesday, hopefully on Wednesday the 14th after Winder starts on the 13th. and then Varland up for whichever one of Winder or Dobnak is still on the roster so he can start next Friday the 16th.

    The other potential wildcard is whether there's a waiver claim or recently released guy they can pick up to start Tuesday. That would probably mean a DFA of Dobnak, since no one will pick up his contract and he can then be reassigned to AAA. Fun times.

    46 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

    I’ve said before that the overly cautious approaches to injuries is something that I think becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy with a lot of our guys. I think it gets to a point where players expect to come out of a game at the slightest injury, and may even expect to have a day or two off because of it. It’s a mindset. Injuries, actual ones, happen and obviously some things you can’t play through. But Rocco pops out of the dugout to check on a guy at the slightest awkwardness, hitch, blip, whatever. I feel the same about starting pitchers looking to be removed late in a game at the slightest bit of trouble. 
     

    If you have a culture where there’s nothing wrong with coming out of a game and/or missing a handful of games at the slightest bump, how could you expect the players to have a different attitude? Long story short: I think there’s quite a bit of coddling/babying/extreme cautiousness that goes on under this regime and I don’t think it helps. You’ve got to be tough to win, still, in this era of analytics and built in days off..

    Haven't the Twins had multiple players in the last 2 years refuse to talk about their injuries and have it lead to incredible decline in production? Joe Ryan and Alex Kirilloff are the 2 very public examples. Didn't Buxton try to play through an injury all last year? Didn't Correa play through an injury 90% of last year? Didn't Polanco play through multiple injuries? 

    I'm not a fan at all of scheduled off days. If a guy needs a day give him a day, but don't give him a day just because. But there are plenty of players playing through things everyday for this team.

    59 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

    Haven't the Twins had multiple players in the last 2 years refuse to talk about their injuries and have it lead to incredible decline in production? Joe Ryan and Alex Kirilloff are the 2 very public examples. Didn't Buxton try to play through an injury all last year? Didn't Correa play through an injury 90% of last year? Didn't Polanco play through multiple injuries? 

    I'm not a fan at all of scheduled off days. If a guy needs a day give him a day, but don't give him a day just because. But there are plenty of players playing through things everyday for this team.

    Some probably refuse to talk about their injuries because they’re afraid they’ll automatically be out for weeks at a time, as precedence has shown. Royce made comments that seemed to indicate as much after his last injury.

    11 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

    Some probably refuse to talk about their injuries because they’re afraid they’ll automatically be out for weeks at a time, as precedent has shown. Royce made comments that seemed to indicate as much after his last injury.

    Royce? As in the guy who just cracked 100 games played in what should be his 4th season? Not sure he's the guy to be pointing to when it comes to injury stuff. In fact, it wasn't his last injury he complained about not being back when he should be, it was the one before that. Meaning he got hurt again after having complained he should've been back sooner. So, yeah, not the best guy to be using in this argument.

    And, again, Buxton and Correa both played through injuries much of last season. Many of us complain about them not ILing guys. Like Buxton right now. He's sat 3 games but he isn't "automatically out for weeks" just because he isn't 100%. Kepler has the same thing happen all the time. 

    Like I said, I agree with the scheduled off days being less than ideal. But the idea that they just IL guys at every little ouchie is wrong. 




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