Are the Twins Ready to Shake Up Their Catching Corps?

Eventually they will need to acquire a catcher. Even the 2nd catchers on the market are making $6-7M.

Great write up! 
Shaking up the catching corps doesn't feel wise and doesn't feel like it should be a priority. How many other teams made it through 162 last year with their 2 primary catchers playing every game? Probably not many? I understand Vazquez isn't earning his $10M, but to spend $15M between the 2 and cover 162 decently, not spectacularly, but decently, it just seems as if we have many other areas to be concerned with. The catching corps is currently not broken, and if we move either one, we open ourselves up for trouble in my opinion.

The worst catching scenario is when one catches and the other DHs.

26 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

I was hoping they may have more time, and could have traded Vazquez and a young arm and $2M somewhere to acquire D’Arnauld as a free agent for $6M/yr ………would have had a 2 year plan and saved $2M/yr. and had better offense.

Even discussing Camargo as a potential option (other than emergency injury replacement) is silly to me. .298 OBP at AAA doesn’t translate to MLB consideration unless he’s elite behind the plate - he’s not. Not an option out of Spring Training or probably ever.

In a perfect world they trade Jeffers - Castro - Matthews - Paddack - Henriquez to AZ for their Catcher (Moreno) and Jordan Montgomery (Twins take on $12M). AZ gets rid of a mutually bad situation with Montgomery and they get value back!

Twins flip Montgomery to Red Sox along with Duran and another piece (Miranda?) for 1B Tristan Casas. To me, targeting Casas and doing whatever to achieve that end is worthwhile.

Pertinent here, solves Catcher issues! Also, saves $18.5M. The $$ saved and the individuals can change but the acquisition of those 2 guys allows Team to compete with anyone.

I'm not sure Arizona bites but this is an interesting idea. Can we substitute Cory Lewis or Marco Raya for Matthews? I would do this deal. It only costs the Twins about $4.1M (RJ-$4.7, WC-$6.2, CP-$7.5, JM-$22.5).

Your follow up trade suggestion will be rejected by both Boston and myself. Casas has light tower power (think Wallner), and the Red Sox have placed a high price on their youngster. He is also brutal as a first baseman. Correa nixes that deal. Both Julien and Miranda would be better at first defensively and that is crazy to think about. The Twins need to upgrade their defense. 

Back to the post - The article is correct when it highlights that the Twins have benefitted from stability from the catching position. Changing things up would be proactive which many people oppose. Before removing either catcher from the Twins roster a catcher must be in hand though. Can't play baseball without a catcher.

JD-Twins is right on with an idea to improve the catching situation. I would propose the Twins seek another young catcher as well because their organization is largely bereft of backstops. Just riffing off of the JD-Twins idea, perhaps Milwaukee can be enticed to exchange Jeferson Quero for a controlled young starting pitcher, SWR.

One can only hope that the Twins don't wait out the market this time.

38 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

This might FEEL like digging to the bottom of the barrel. But the Padres left a catcher available in the rule 5 draft named Brandon Valenzuela. He played mostly at AA, and had 27 games at AAA for them this past year. His overall numbers were not strong, but he is apparently known more for his defense than his offense anyway. Fangraphs has him (as of July) as their #6 overall prospect, and MLB has him as their #12. Just thinking, if they were to move on from Vazquez (for example) I'd ALMOST rather than make a move for this guy (or take him in the rule 5 draft) compared to throwing 3 million at someone like Yan Gomes.

Maybe I'm crazy. Don't answer that.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=valenz001bra

I was looking into Joey Bart (SF) last offseason. PIT picked him up for practically nothing. & he became their best catcher last season. I like Valenzuela much better than Camargo but I still don't trust him as a backup catcher. But I'd be open to picking him up & let him season a bit in AAA to work on his hitting. He has potential.

They should trade Vasquez IF they can find a willing partner, which is doubtful given his salary, unless they pay a portion of it. They can’t trade Jeffers, as that would leave Vasquez as a starter who struggles to hit .220 with little power and lots of strikeouts. 

It's not often that a team can go through a full season with two catchers and both staying healthy.  The Twins have done it for two years in a row.  Can that last?  I wouldn't be against keeping both for 2025 for the stability.  But sooner or later they are going to have to come up with some decent catching prospects or pay for a free agent catcher again.  My preference would be to try to trade for Teel(no idea what it would take).  IMO Camargo is AAA for emergency callup only.  Time to start drafting and developing young catchers.  We drafted a couple last year.  Do the Twins feel they will someday be MLB caliber.  I am also on the list of people who think playing both Jeffers and Vasquez at the same time with one being DH is poor managing.  Neither should be DHing, especially Vasquez.  By eating Vaszuez's salary for one more year at least gives us an acceptable catching tandem for 2025 and one more year to figure something else out.  But upgrading for 2025 would be optimal if it's Vasquez they can trade.  The paltry self-imposed salary is the biggest problem.  Maybe we could get a loan from the Dodgers with deferred payments.

6 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

No they can't shake up their catching corps. 

If they are able to trade Vazquez... they most likely have to eat some money or include prospect value to amke it happen. I don't believe they can put the full 10 million in their pocket. 

If they trade Vazquez and get some money to spend. Let's say 7 million to spend. They will have to spend that 7 million to get someone decent because CATCHERS COST A LOT. 

If they all of sudden say... we will take that 7 million and spend it elsewhere... that's great. I could get behind that but I have one big problem with that scenerio.

Here's the problem. Camargo is all of sudden the guy. The same guy who sat for 20 plus games and couldn't get a sniff of the lineup card while Vazquez was deemed not replaceable while compiling an OPS of .575. 

Camargo couldn't clear that low bar without damaging the Twins chances to win last year but this year he won't be a drain on the teams chances to win ball games for some reason.

Trading Vazquez to install Camargo would be a bunch of bull crap based on how they handled catching last year.

Yet... Here Camargo is... once again taking up 40 man roster space as the primary option and the Twins have already told everyone that they don't think he can improve a .575 OPS hitting catcher draining 10 million out of severely depleted funds. . 

So... to answer the question. No the Twins are not ready to shake up their catching corps. They were too busy locking in to the current catching corps. 

Exactly this!
We have one more year to ride out the Vazquez decision we made 3 years ago. Trying to undo it now opens us up to trouble if Jeffers breaks a leg in April. 

4 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Yeah, but Vazquez's framing and defense are superior to what Jeffers has shown. 

Are we going to computers calling balls & strikes next year? I thought this was happening? Which eliminates framing. Which i am for. 

8 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Yeah, but Vazquez's framing and defense are superior to what Jeffers has shown. 

Please tell me this was supposed to be funny.

"Alternatively, the Twins could lean more heavily on Jeffers as the primary catcher while using Camargo sparingly. This strategy would shift Jeffers into a role he has never held at the big-league level."

Yes, in '22 after trading away Garver & Rortvedt, Jeffers was handed primary catching duties with Sanchez look to as mainly DH & emergency catcher. Jeffers crashed very quickly & not able to handle the physical demands, ended up on the IL. '23 He was declared postseason catcher & caught the whole postseason & didn't do very well.

As a backup. In the shortened '20 he had a very good season. In '23 he had even better season.

As a slightly more used in tandem. '21 he did very poorly & '24 he waned as the season dragged on.

In summary, contrary to what Falvey wants us to believe, Jeffers isn't a primary catcher, he's better used as a backup. Twins need at least a starting catcher & the Twins cupboard is bare. As we should know FA catching is very expensive even for a backup catcher. We are wasting our time with Jeffers & soon he'll want as a Boras client a very hefty extension for a backup catcher. Jeffers isn't our future so trade him yesterday. Although his value has dropped considerably from last year, he's still worth something to help us land a future catcher.

We'll end up losing terribly trying to trade Vazquez with a big Fire Sale sign on his back. We'll have to eat a good chunk of that money & then losing money trying to find an expensive inferior catcher in FA. To answer your question "Are the Twins ready to shake up the catching?" They shook things up in '22 & they haven't recovered from it. They have put   a Band-Aid on it but now they want to rip it off. Ready or not they have to fix the problem they caused.

31 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I never really understand this point. I understand the value of defense but I never really understand this point. 

Surely there is another catcher somewhere in the universe who can frame pitches and can't hit a lick. Maybe it's a young catcher who holds the bat cow-handed and closes his eyes when he swings but the guy can play D. Surely this guy is out there somewhere and ready to make the major league minimum.  

If framing and defense at the catching position with absolutely no offense at all is worth 10 million a year.

FRONT OFFICES... please take your catching prospects with defensive skill, coach them up and advance them up the ladder as quickly as possible. Bat skills are not necessary. 😉  

The first filter on catcher defense is pop time to 2B. If you can't get your pop time down to a reasonable level, then every runner who gets on base makes it to 3B. This is one reason why position-switching in WAR as a basis for catcher replacement level doesn't work. People who can play C can often defend elsewhere but the reverse is not true. If you move your 1B to catcher, then every leadoff walk is a leadoff triple two pitches later.

The second filter on catcher defense might, ironically, be how well they hit. If a player can really hit the ball, he will be moved off catcher to a less demanding defensive position so the team can have the bat in the lineup every day.

The third filter is handling the pitcher - game calling, blocking, framing. You can offload pitch calling to the coaching staff if needed but not blocking pitches and keeping the runners from advancing. If we see automated balls and strikes you will see catchers change their stance to help with blocking and pop time. They won't care about framing low pitches anymore.

Upgrading at Catcher is should be far down the list of priorities for the Twins this offseason.  If something falls into their laps, then they would take a look, but this is probably a non-starter.

They will scrap-heap another 4A catcher or two this offseason for insurance.

Ty France has indicated that he's interested in moving to catcher. His bat doesn't play at 1B anymore, but it would be fine for a catcher. I would be willing to put him in St. Paul and give him that opportunity.

57 minutes ago, Heiny said:

Please tell me this was supposed to be funny.

If you take catching seriously and bother to compare their defensive skills you will see who is the better catcher.  I'll put money on who our pitchers prefer to have behind the dish.

His last name ends with Z.