Article: TwinsDaily Interview With Terry Ryan: Gardenhire and Molitor

[Guest USAFChief]

Most of these are just how you'd do things differently, none that would improve the team. And Ryan did bring in Jack Goin to do stats. You also make the claim of spend money but don't say how, even with the benefit of hindsight.

 

You seem stuck on some notion that the Twins can't develop talent despite a pretty successful history of doing that and currently having one of the top ranked farm systems. Why can't you accept the idea that it's just cyclical? That teams, esp low payroll teams as they were until 2010, don't always stay on top? Why does the normal ebb and flow have to mean that Ryan, who took over two years ago, is an old guy who doesn't understand the game? Since he's come back, has he been snookered in a trade? Has he been burned in a FA signing? Has he reorganized the organization? Have top prospects been rushed? Has the team drafted well? Has he brought in younger coaches and managers throughout the system? Has he made good small moves - waiver claims, minor league free agents, rule v picks?

 

What he hasn't done is waste money on large FA signings that wouldn't have helped the team anyway.

Has he made any improvement to the W/L record?

[jokin]

Has he made any improvement to the W/L record?

 

No...but TR got smiley bonus points for "not making any large FA signings"...Because...they "wouldn't help"....even though, now, based on this interview with TR, and what Jim Pohlad has stated....large FA signings will help...it gets confusing......

[S.]

I find it stunning that people can look at what he's done the last two years as GM and still be anti-Ryan. He's a very good GM.

What has he done these last two years that constitutes being very good? I definitely like the May and Meyer trades, but beyond that, I'm not sure what you think he's done that is so undeniably great. From my side of the picture, I see a GM who has more or less done nothing to improve any of the team's pressing needs, and had the benefit of a miserable team for high draft picks, if Buxton signing was supposed to be something impressive about TR.

[TheLeviathan]

I find it stunning that people can look at what he's done the last two years as GM and still be anti-Ryan. He's a very good GM.

 

That's a bizarre stance. From this article - Ryan appears to be anti-Ryan. He refused to fire a manage because of what he perceived to be his own failures.

[gunnarthor]

Has he made any improvement to the W/L record?

 

Do you think the Twins were in a situation where a quick fix was possible?

[Mike Sixel]

I really have no interest in continuing this discussion. I laid out things I would change. You disagree. Neither of us is going to change the others mind.

[twinsfan34]

Has he made any improvement to the W/L record?

 

To be fair, a GM doesn't make much of an impact on a MLB roster until year 4. You can find interviews by Epstein and many other execs that give that number.

 

Looking at the Billy Beane teams to whichever GM...it's not until year 3 that teams even begin to have 30% of the rostered players under the direction/action of the new GM.

[twinsfan34]

Where is Ryan against Math & Science? Is it stated somewhere?

 

I may have missed it if so.

[Guest USAFChief]

Do you think the Twins were in a situation where a quick fix was possible?

I think improving a 95 loss team with obvious needs and abundant resources over the space of 2 offseasons is a low bar to jump. He wasn't able to do that.

 

Success is pretty easy to measure in MLB. Anything other than wins and losses doesn't count for much in my book.

[Old Twins Cap]

Ryan says the judges Gardy on things like "in-game strategy" and how he handles guys out of line, how "prepared" the players are for games.

 

Should we start with first inning runs? I guess that wouldn't be fair because the Twins starters are so poor. Not really a measure of "preparation" for a MLB game, I guess.

 

Should we talk about pick-off plays, hit and run plays, bunt defense, positioning? I guess, those are hard to measure, but one cannot argue that the Twins excel in these areas, can one?

 

Well, okay, let's take the in-game strategy part of this. Look at the Yankees four-game series against the Twins in early July. Robinson Cano, who was basically the only guy who could beat the Twins because of all their injuries, was allowed to beat the Twins four games in a row. They pitched to him, they pitched to him, and they pitched to him -- and, he beat them, four games in a row. The worst Yankee's team in quite some time, allowed to come in and sweep -- like the Twins are their doormat. Mostly because the Twins pitchers were, I'm sorry, unprepared and had no strategy.

 

Guys out of line. I don't like the way Gardy disciplines his rookies through the media -- complaining about Hicks and the way he one-hands a fly ball. Rookies, in particular, should be handled one-on-one out of the glare of the media. Gardy has a hard time with that. He goes after his young players in the media constantly. Sorry, very poor skills there.

 

The problem here is that Ryan is shielding Gardy. It is true, as far as it goes, that Ryan gives Gardy the players. But, you know what, look at the Cardinals, look at Boston, sure they have more talent, but they also are getting more mileage out of their young and role-players than the Twins and many teams in baseball. How do they do it? That's the gazillion dollar question.

 

But, just to say, it is possible, given Gardy's cards to get more out of them than he does, or has, for the last number of years. Gardy is not getting any extra mileage out of the guys he's given. That's called "adding value" and that is, at the end of the day, how a manager can and should be judged.

 

After 11 years, maybe it's because Gardy has lost something or the players tune him out. Either way, after a full decade, sometimes you need a change, sometimes a new strategy, sometimes a new voice, and that's what Ryan doesn't get. Sure, he's still Gardy, but IT HAS BEEN 11 YEARS, TERRY.

 

The fact that management is willing to just dither through this is proof the Twins are one of the most poorly owned organizations in MLB.

 

Sorry. But true. This would not happen to any other team in baseball. Look it up.

[twinsfan34]

I find myself a bit 'indifferent' to Ron Gardenhire. If I was/am leaning one way, it's probably to see him go. But that's probably because I've had visceral reactions to losing and losing how we've lost this season. I can handle losing if you are outplayed, but this past season...sending up the hitters and pitchers we had...to let them get actual MLB at bats and innings pitched? Unnerving.

 

All that to say, Ron Gardenhire is the best manager the Minnesota Twins have ever had. He's had 7 winning seasons to 5 losing seasons. Manager of the Year, runner up 3 times. Six division championships. Five 90 win seasons.

 

Tom Kelly has 2 World Series Championships on him. Lightning caught fire for those two magical Falls. But he only had 5 winning seasons in 15. Three 90 win seasons.

 

Sam Meale had 4 winning seasons in 7. Three 90 win seasons.

 

Shrugs. I mean, if you want a resume. He's not that bad.

 

And Terry Ryan has to defend him. And he's also right, name a manager who could have took last year's team to a winning record? Jim Leyland said it plainly, "talent wins games."

 

Mauer, Perkins, Burton, Dosier, and maybe Arcia...who else would even make the rosters of the teams with winning records? The rest of the team, AAAA talent. Maybe Correia is a #5 starter level on those teams. Maybe.

[jokin]

Where is Ryan against Math & Science? Is it stated somewhere?

 

I may have missed it if so.

 

Yes, you did. Not to be flippant, but this has been hashed out after each Ryan interview, and Ryan repeatedly comes up short in any claims to be embracing the ways in which the game has changed since he first came on the scene.

[jokin]

Ryan says the judges Gardy on things like "in-game strategy" and how he handles guys out of line, how "prepared" the players are for games.

 

Should we start with first inning runs? I guess that wouldn't be fair because the Twins starters are so poor. Not really a measure of "preparation" for a MLB game, I guess.

 

Should we talk about pick-off plays, hit and run plays, bunt defense, positioning? I guess, those are hard to measure, but one cannot argue that the Twins excel in these areas, can one?

 

Well, okay, let's take the in-game strategy part of this. Look at the Yankees four-game series against the Twins in early July. Robinson Cano, who was basically the only guy who could beat the Twins because of all their injuries, was allowed to beat the Twins four games in a row. They pitched to him, they pitched to him, and they pitched to him -- and, he beat them, four games in a row. The worst Yankee's team in quite some time, allowed to come in and sweep -- like the Twins are their doormat. Mostly because the Twins pitchers were, I'm sorry, unprepared and had no strategy.

 

Guys out of line. I don't like the way Gardy disciplines his rookies through the media -- complaining about Hicks and the way he one-hands a fly ball. Rookies, in particular, should be handled one-on-one out of the glare of the media. Gardy has a hard time with that. He goes after his young players in the media constantly. Sorry, very poor skills there.

 

The problem here is that Ryan is shielding Gardy. It is true, as far as it goes, that Ryan gives Gardy the players. But, you know what, look at the Cardinals, look at Boston, sure they have more talent, but they also are getting more mileage out of their young and role-players than the Twins and many teams in baseball. How do they do it? That's the gazillion dollar question.

 

But, just to say, it is possible, given Gardy's cards to get more out of them than he does, or has, for the last number of years. Gardy is not getting any extra mileage out of the guys he's given. That's called "adding value" and that is, at the end of the day, how a manager can and should be judged.

 

After 11 years, maybe it's because Gardy has lost something or the players tune him out. Either way, after a full decade, sometimes you need a change, sometimes a new strategy, sometimes a new voice, and that's what Ryan doesn't get. Sure, he's still Gardy, but IT HAS BEEN 11 YEARS, TERRY.

 

The fact that management is willing to just dither through this is proof the Twins are one of the most poorly owned organizations in MLB.

 

Sorry. But true. This would not happen to any other team in baseball. Look it up.

 

+1

 

Well stated and documented (thanks for reminding me of the Cano farce in July). You speak for many- it's not hate, its the rotting philosophical staleness and bland messaging that epitomizes this organization, you aptly provided yet further ammo to the POV to back up your fairly stated points.

[jokin]

All that to say, Ron Gardenhire is the best manager the Minnesota Twins have ever had. He's had 7 winning seasons to 5 losing seasons. Manager of the Year, runner up 3 times. Six division championships. Five 90 win seasons.

 

Tom Kelly has 2 World Series Championships on him. Lightning caught fire for those two magical Falls. But he only had 5 winning seasons in 15. Three 90 win seasons.

 

Sam Meale had 4 winning seasons in 7. Three 90 win seasons.

 

 

 

And Terry Ryan has to defend him.

 

Mauer, Perkins, Burton, Dosier, and maybe Arcia...who else would even make the rosters of the teams with winning records? The rest of the team, AAAA talent. Maybe Correia is a #5 starter level on those teams. Maybe.

 

Tom Kelly was working with Calvin Griffith's and Andy McPhail's players for the first 8 years of his tenure. Carl Pohlad dropped his commitment to remaining perenially competitive soon after the 2nd World Series win (not enough ROI, paying off the collusion case, attempting to break the Players Union in 94-95, were all greater priorities). Terry Ryan was in charge during Kelly's last 7 years in the wilderness.

 

Ron Gardenhire's 5 90+ win seasons is partly diminished by the unbalanced schedule that gave the Twins almost half of their scheduled games intra-divisionally- in the weakest Division in the AL, if not all of baseball. He was blessed to have MVPs and Cy Young winners on his roster, which obviously makes a manager's job less challenging. While the 00s were feel-good in Twinsland (and Gardy deserves the credit for constantly getting the team in position to compete for postseason), it masked Gardenhire's biggest failing- not growing within his job. He perenially crawled into the fetal position when playing the AL East, and particularly so in postseason sweep after postseason sweep.

[gunnarthor]

I think improving a 95 loss team with obvious needs and abundant resources over the space of 2 offseasons is a low bar to jump. He wasn't able to do that.

 

Success is pretty easy to measure in MLB. Anything other than wins and losses doesn't count for much in my book.

 

Well, that's an answer I guess. By that logic, I would assume you also think poorly of Hoyer's job the last two years in Chicago, as those Cubs have actually managed to lose more games than the Twins despite higher payroll, more FA signings and (apparently) more use of advanced stats.

[glunn]

Moderator note -- this is a good debate, but a few posts have bordered on bickering. Disagree as much as you wish with other posters, but please be polite and respectful.

[old nurse]

Lost on the Ryan is old school crowd is the notion that all along he may have been doing his own form of statistical analysis that use many of the same concepts the so called advanced statistics people use. Any of these stats use a key component that the designer views as their key. He has his. If he appears dismissive it is because it may well have already been done for years.

[TheLeviathan]

If he appears dismissive it is because it may well have already been done for years.

 

If he's been doing them for years....wouldn't he just say "yeah, we've been looking at stuff like that for awhile" rather than crying "WITCH!" every time something like FIP is brought up? It doesn't seem like a plausible explanation.

 

He's repeated many times his adoration for human scouting over metrics. Which is fine, I'd just like it to be brought more into balance. Or the metrics less shunned.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

All that to say, Ron Gardenhire is the best manager the Minnesota Twins have ever had. He's had 7 winning seasons to 5 losing seasons. Manager of the Year, runner up 3 times. Six division championships. Five 90 win seasons.

 

Tom Kelly has 2 World Series Championships on him. Lightning caught fire for those two magical Falls. But he only had 5 winning seasons in 15. Three 90 win seasons.

 

There are Gardy fans, and then there are Gardy fans.

 

I'll take the rings.

[Shane Wahl]

The full interview just makes one actually more depressed, by the way.

[Willihammer]

I finished reading the interview thinking what I always think when Ryan talks about payroll: If its not an excuse for winning, and its not an excuse for losing, then what did we finance a new ballpark for?

[Kwak]

I think the interview is just PR to mollify the choir so they stop singing off-key. Consider what really happened--no change! Same "leadership team" and we'll soon see mostly the same players--just provided with yet another opportunity to see if they can somehow succeed--which would permit "valididation" for "leadership". If failure occurs (when?) in 2014 expect a recycling of excuses--after all everybody has a second year on their contract.

[Alex]

Lost on the Ryan is old school crowd is the notion that all along he may have been doing his own form of statistical analysis that use many of the same concepts the so called advanced statistics people use. Any of these stats use a key component that the designer views as their key. He has his. If he appears dismissive it is because it may well have already been done for years.

 

I'd love to see anything that points this. I think he uses the term "analytics" loosely.

[gunnarthor]

I'd love to see anything that points this. I think he uses the term "analytics" loosely.

 

In all honesty, why would Ryan reveal any of the things he does? I'm not suggesting that the Twins are more sabrematically inclined than the Rays but the BP article I linked above does suggest they're in the middle, not the bottom.

 

As to Ryan himself, he doesn't leak anything, ever. It sorta makes the hot stove league boring for us Twins fans. Regardless of how some fans may feel, Ryan clearly has the trust of ownership to do whatever he needs to and he doesn't need to give out information to feel vindicated to fans. He didn't ok Michael Lewis to write about his work (so Lewis wrote Moneyball instead).

 

As I mentioned above, he's made a number of good moves in the two years since he's been back that suggests he's not out of his depth in running the team again.

[jokin]

 

As I mentioned above, he's made a number of good moves in the two years since he's been back that suggests he's not out of his depth in running the team again.

 

Please feel free to list, specify, delineate and annotate.

 

I'm having a much harder time coming up with a "number" beyond "One" (Meyer-Span trade).

[Brock Beauchamp]

Please feel free to list, specify, delineate and annotate.

 

I'm having a much harder time coming up with a "number" beyond "One" (Meyer-Span trade).

 

The Revere trade is still far from decided but there's a good chance the Twins come out of that just fine and they come out of it with pitching while trading from an excess of outfielders.

 

If you're including the draft or international FAs, there are a handful of guys that have done quite well. Thorpe, for one. Berrios, another.

 

It's not hard to come up with more than one example of Ryan doing something right in the past two years.

[Mike Sixel]

I have been reminded over and over that the GM does not run the draft.......

[The Wise One]

Signing international free agents at age 16 mean that it will take quite a few years to find out if you are any good at it. It has been said by many the GM is responsible for the work of the front office personnel and those that work under said people.

[twinsfan34]

I have been reminded over and over that the GM does not run the draft.......

 

Can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

 

To those who says he doesn't run the draft....

 

What does the GM do?

 

Owner seems to dictate the Free Agency/money deals. Manager seems to manage. Someone other than the GM drafts. I mean, but honestly, what does he do?

 

Accountable for everything, but responsible for nothing? Trades the only thing?

[twinsfan34]

The Revere trade is still far from decided but there's a good chance the Twins come out of that just fine and they come out of it with pitching while trading from an excess of outfielders.

 

If you're including the draft or international FAs, there are a handful of guys that have done quite well. Thorpe, for one. Berrios, another.

 

It's not hard to come up with more than one example of Ryan doing something right in the past two years.

 

I agree.

 

2012 Draft was great. Could go down as the best draft in Twins history. 2013, lost 2 guys who didn't sign. If Kohl Stewart ends up being an Ace or #2 in2-4 years that's a great draft too. We got 3 possible catchers out of the 2013 draft as well. Gonslaves had a very successful start as well. Brandon Bixler made it from the Gulf league to the Midwest at 21 years old. Tyler Stirewalt has looked impressive too.