Article: Right Man for the Job

[ThePuck]

the fact that he would have had other offers within a day of getting "canned" proves this.

 

 

Well, I'm not sure it proves anything nor can anyone say it's a FACT he would have had other offers within a day of getting canned. I'm sorry, I mean of course they can say it...one can say anything...they just have absolutely no way to prove the supposed fact.

[Shane Wahl]

I would be careful throwing around this statement:

 

"Some choose to look at the Twins playoff record, and I understand that. However, what happens over a 162 game sample size is a more reliable indicator than a five game sample any day."

 

That only makes statistical sense if you are comparing two like items. I don't think playoff baseball games and a random regular season game of a 96 loss team can be compared this way. Playoff baseball is a different game. Just because its a small sample doesn't mean if the results a statistically significant they can be ignored. Statistically Gardy is one of the worst playoff managers of all time. That's just a fact. That doesn't mean hes a bad regular season manager but it also means his results aren't because of chance or a small sample size.

 

Absolutely correct. Other organizations clearly don't way playoff games on a par with regular season games. Granted it isn't as clear-cut as in the NBA (in terms of "building for the playoffs"), but there is a difference. And the winning percentage difference between Gardenhire's regular season games and his postseason games is nothing to just brush off as meaningless. Good god and a half!

 

In his defense, though (so people don't accuse me of "childish vitriol"), a team with 5 number 3 pitchers can do pretty well in the regular season. But that isn't going to work well in the playoffs. There looked like there was going to be that one chance with Santana, Liriano, and Radke and then . . . nope. That sort of thing falls on the GM mostly. That said, it isn't clear that Gardenhire and Anderson even *want* the type of pitcher that serves as the 1 or 2 on other teams! Not when you can just push for Nick Blackburn to be signed to some dumb contract and then declare him to be a starter in spring training the next year with no justification.

[ThePuck]

In his defense, though (so people don't accuse me of "childish vitriol"), a team with 5 number 3 pitchers can do pretty well in the regular season.

 

Especially in our division from '02-'12. Might give a team an inflated record...

[Willihammer]

It's not just Ron Gardenhire that needs to go, it's The Twins Way. Gardenhire is not a bad manager, in that he does implement the philosophy that this organization has chiseled in stone. The problem has become the philosophy.

 

Many years ago, The Twins Way meant something different than what we are seeing now. The bullet points are the same: pitch to contact, great fielding, hit to the opposite field, etc. However, somewhere along the line something changed. Pitch to contact started to mean "nibble around the corners." Great fielding started to allow slow fielders with iron gloves and crappy accuracy, so long as they hit a home run now and then. Hit to the opposite field started to mean stand there and wait for ball four, only to watch strike three. Oh, and how many bases did you see this poor fielding, strikeout prone, nibble around the corners team steal this year? Sorry, our big, clumsy guys are too slow to steal bases, and the fast guys don't know how.

 

The sad fact is that The Twins Way under Ron Gardenhire and Rick Anderson has become a cartoon mockery of itself, the low-T version, the slow, passive, old man's interpretation of "the piranhas." Piranhas with dentures.

 

I do not question that the players on this team love Ron Gardenhire. Clearly the man is a warehouse of baseball knowledge, and he loves his players, too. The reason he should step aside is that the team needs to regain an aggressive edge that has been lost over the past few years. When the odds are 50-50 to swing or check, you should swing, hard. Get rid of slow outfielders. Pitch inside. When you're on base, you're a base stealer, not just a runner.

 

Baseball is a game best played hard, embracing risk. The Twins Way has become a conservative, plodding style that is dull to watch, looks boring to play, and loses over 90 games per year. Today's Twins are at or near the bottom in all the categories that make baseball fun to watch: attempted steals, home runs, strikeouts, outfield putouts, bunts, pick-offs, trick plays, etc.

 

You can't play pro baseball like you're trying to avoid a heart attack. The Twins need a manager that likes to roll the dice, and when he loses, can't wait to roll 'em again. Gardenhire himself talks about "getting after it," but his team plays like they're afraid of being too aggressive. It's like a fish that's scared of water, a bird that's embarrassed to flap his wings, a clown afraid to put on that big, red nose.

 

Embrace the risk, celebrate your own embarrassment, or hand the microphone to the next bad singer. Life is karaoke, most of us suck, but that shouldn't stop anybody from giving it a go. We love you too, Ron, but it's time for a change. Please, hand the microphone to the next bad singer. You've been kind of hogging it.

 

I disagree. The piranha style of baseball might have been appropriate for a small budget team playing on astroturf, but the Twins aren't that team anymore. Moreover, piranha-ball was tested against the big AL-style DH brand of baseball over and over again, and it failed every time.

 

The turf has changed, revenues have changed, the game has changed too. Runs are down across the board, and coincidentally, strikeouts are up.

 

But the coaches and front office are the same people we had in the metrodome. Have they updated their thinking to keep pace? I don't see it. For starters, they're still last in strikeouts. They don't shift on anyone not named David Ortiz. They have two of the worst pitch framers in baseball. They won't pull a starter whose put up zeroes until his luck runs out, they won't use their best reliever in non-save situations, and they still won't make a splash in any form of domestic or international free agency.

 

If they won't update their thinking, then they are the wrong men for the job.

[Shane Wahl]

Especially in our division from '02-'12. Might give a team an inflated record...

 

The Twins were the Blue Jays, basically. The loyalists might be signing a different tune if we could merely trade places with those dirty Canucks. The "division title" defense would go away and then . . . what's left again? The player like him?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Good article but my first take is that Gardy doesn't really "work at a job" and he's paid an obscene amount of money with the understanding what the trade off is (being fired at the pleasure of the owner). In most places that's how pro sports works. Other commenters above said it better.

 

Speaking business, I've got to think if the Twins take another deep dive below 500 early next season, and with all the suits in baseball descending on Mpls for the All Star Game in July, that Pohlad, the gracious host, would just be too embarrassed to stand pat and would maybe clean house at that point, and send his good friend Gardenhire packing on a year and a half paid vacation. But that could just be me trying to kick Lucy's football again.

[old nurse]

No player brought up through the Twins organization other than Mauer was a can't miss prospect. Elements of their game were added to. Morneau became an MVP. With recent players, clear progress was made with Revere, Span, Florimon, and Dozier. Is the recent lack of talent being developed due to the lack of talent to be developed or those doing the developing? The number of minor league players with potentially bright futures would lead me to say the former although the lack of development by Plouffe and Parmelee gives a little pause.

[Rosterman]

It's a strange situation in Twinsville.

 

It is crying out for change, but it has to happen within the whole organization. I think ownership is afraid of that, and working with the long-range plan that Mr. Ryan and his staff does have in place.

 

Think about it, bring in a new GM, who would pepper the front office with numerous other staff changes, bring in a new manager and coaches that MAY be 360 degrees different than whatever approach the whole system from major leagues to A-ball has established. Prospects MAY be moved for proven yet soon to be expensive players, choices would be made to draft this type of bat or that type of thrower that totally goes against what is in the system right now.

 

One wants to think the Twins do have a plan. We know what that is...not to spend money (i.e. "we have a new stadium and revenue streams so we can keep our players when they reach free agency), move players thru the system slowly or in spurts so they don't all demand huge paydays at the same time (how many players play for the same team a full three seasons, my friends, or five seasons), stay away from free agency (or signing your own players) not thinking that they MAY be flippable.

 

But, the Twins do have a plan. Will all the pieces come together. I look at a lineup (one of Gardy's faults) of Presley, Dozier, Mauer, Willingham, Doumit, Plouffe, Arcia, Pinto, Florimon and it doesn't look too bad. That is assuming Mauer MAY play more at first. Switch out right now Pinto for Colabello or Parmelee and it doesn't look as good. The Twins still need a bat (think Morneau in his prime) as well as great seasons from Willingham and Doumit. We know what to expect from the other guys. We will see BIG changes afoot in the infield as we work in 1-2-3 prospects. There are two outfielders in the system that may get a chance to shine in 2014.

 

The bullpen is strong. There are tradable pieces (Swarzak, Burton, Duensing, even Fein -- a couple, but not all).

 

It is the rotation in which the Twins need to spend. Three starters at least. One can be a placeholder, as they already have a stream of placeholders in the wings (Worley, Diamond, Hendriks). Gibson is a longterm given for now. Meyer, May, Dean, Darnell...if we get two, we can jump up and down. Deduno is questioable and should be traded as soon as he gets well and pus together a few starts. Correia is around for just one more year and is replaceable.

 

So, the Twins need a bat and three starters. They have four potential free agents that are tradable in the nest year (Burton, Willingham, Doumit, Correia). All could be easily replaced by people in the system in 2015. Maybe some seasoning, but replaced.

 

Brings us back to keeping Gardy. And the staff. They had a raw deal this year. You had challenged rookies who are free swingers (Arcia, Hicks). And you had a load of guys that fit nowhere in longterm plans (Berneir, Thomas, Mastro, Ramirez, even Carroll and Escobar). You had wonderkid Colabello who was clearly overmatched, but I can applaud and cheer for the guy. You saw that Parmelee and Hendriks may be lost causes. Gardy had to work with these guys, encourage them, give them a chance. He suffered for it.

 

I'm happy for Gardy and his staff. I believe there is a long-range Twins plan in place to put butts in the seat. I would love to see a bit more excitement overall (the Twins seem to be the most unexciting team in baseball hands down -- boring front office, a nice pretty stadium with a cool breeze and friendly vendors...it is at least the most relaxed club in baseball at times).

[Richie the Rally Goat]

After 25 years of service would I want my boss to choose option 2? Yes. After 3 years of being measurably worse than my peers and being in the very bottom of my industry in performance, would my boss choose option 2? No. It would never get to a whole year, let alone three no matter my track record previously. But then, my industry has many more qualified applicants to take my job than Gardy's. The main difference between me and Gardy (besides the obvious) is that I have the ability to hire and fire my employees, and because of that more of the credit of failure or success rests on my shoulders.

 

Is Gardy the right guy? I don't know. Does a change need to be made? I think so, change for the sake of change can be a good thing. Does it need to be Gardy? Possibly, but I blame TR/BS more than Gardy for the current situation because those two GMs have/had the ability and resources to pull in the right people for the job (including coaching), and obviously have not.... Yet....

 

I'm disappointed in Gardenhire's rehire for the same reason I am about resigning Pelfrey. It's not because they are bad people, bad player/manager. It's not even because I think they are wrong for the job. I'm disappointed because I know that for as long as status quo remains in the Minnesota Twins front office, I will be a fan of an atrocious baseball team.

[TheLeviathan]

Gardy is the right man for the job, the fact that he would have had other offers within a day of getting "canned" proves this.

 

People have said time and time again that Gardy should be let go, but I have yet to hear ONE person say who they should bring in instead that is a clear upgrade.

 

you realize the reason that isn't happening is because the matter is subjective, not clear. Not only tht, but many aren't asking for him to be fired out of incompetence but more for the need of organizational change and accountability. Frankly, your demands are a poor starting point for any reasonable discussion.

[nicksaviking]

Gardy is the right man for the job, the fact that he would have had other offers within a day of getting "canned" proves this.

 

People have said time and time again that Gardy should be let go, but I have yet to hear ONE person say who they should bring in instead that is a clear upgrade.

 

It is not a "fact" and even if Gardy did get a new gig ASAP, that doesn't "prove" he could turn the Twins around.

 

The only reports of landing spots I heard regarding Gardy were the Cubs and Mets. But the Mets don't need a manager and the Cubs? What a laugh. Bill James desciples Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer are going to hire an old school manager who derisively calls Sabrmetrics "Cybermetrics?" I think not.

 

I'm not upset about Gardy staying but I feel compelled to defend those who want him gone as there are so many reasons to demand a change from this stuffy, conservative organization.

[zustiak]

Just for fun, imagine you have an employee that has the opportunity to go on to another job, where he will have more resources, but where expectations will be higher and failure will be met with stern reprimand, perhaps even firing. He chooses to stay in his current job because he knows failure will be met with "meh, he's a good guy, here's another contract."

 

Is that someone you want leading?

 

Well said. Twins win, Gardenhire gets the credit. Twins lose, front office blames all the youth. You could not hand-pick a better or less stressful managerial/coaching position. He has

the only excuse he will ever need handed to him by Terry Ryan.

[ThePuck]

If it's all about the talent on the field and nothing at all to do with how the coaches and manager do their jobs, why was Jerry White fired? Serious question. The FIRST BASE COACH was somehow a big enough contributor to losing HE was fired?

 

Oh and Stelmaszek as well.

[LaBombo]

Many will choose to look at the last three seasons.

Every other organization in baseball would "choose to look at the last three seasons" and fire him. That's simply a historical fact dating back over to WWII. Lose 90 games three years in a row and you're gone.

 

You can go on about talent level and loyalty and the simple-minded fan desire for change for the sake of change, but at the end of the day you're advocating something that simply doesn't happen.

 

So I question your perspective, Seth. I don't consider the Twins 'lucky' to retain the services of a manager whose record the past three years was so awful that going back 70 years, only Hall of Fame legend Casey Stengel lost more games in that span and kept his job.

 

Now that you've put Ron Gardenhire and Casey Stengel in the same sentence, I'm wondering what good you hope will come of bringing back our modern-day 'Old Perfesser'.

 

In the incredibly rare eight (including 3 expansion teams and two contraction candidates) instances since WWII of a manager being allowed to return after three 90 loss seasons, they all lost over 90 games again, averaging around 100 or so. Four of them were fired and one retired during the following season and two were fired after. Only Kelly survived, and managed a grand total of one more season.

 

So knowing that the historical upside of bringing back a guy who you're inadvertently elevating to Stengelesque stature even though no other organization in postwar baseball history would him bring back is about a hundred losses next year and one more season around .500, do you still feel you're objectively evaluating Ron Gardenhire and what's best for the Twins?

[IdahoPilgrim]

I am not surprised that Gardenhire is back, and I don't think he is the problem, though I probably would side with those who say a fresh voice would be appropriate at this time.

 

That said, one thing this may help is attracting FAs. Gardenhire is well respected around the league and I would think that has to be a plus when trying to sell the club to prospective new players.

[alskntwnsfn]

I have some pretty strong feelings on the matter.

 

It is obvious that Gardy and his staff must go. TR should be demoted to head of scouting or player development. Here's why this is the only defensible course of action:

 

TR and his staff has a great eye for young players, but they do a horrendous job of signing free agents. I can't find the link, but somebody did a great analysis a few weeks ago illustrating how well different teams have done signing FA's back to 1995. Minnesota fared terrible. But that just puts numbers next to what we already know, this team consistently throws away money every offseason. TR has made some nice trades but we need to do a better job of filling in the gaps on our team if we are ever going to seriously compete.

 

The bigger problem is Gardenhire, and not so much him, but his staff. We know he didn't have a great squad to work with, but I don't think it should have been this bad. Gardy has a few different problems that will always limit us so long as he is the manager. First, he does not platoon or seem to give much thought to playing matchups. Second, he favors 'scrappy' guys and insists his young hitters fit the Twins 'spray the ball around' mold. Third, his staff is just not paying attention.

 

Three examples of #3, that I think are fireable offenses, if not for Gardy, at least the pitching and hitting coaches. First one... Colabello's first few weeks in the majors, he goes like 1 for his first 24 with 15 K's (or thereabouts), I watched two minutes of a game against Milwaukee and could see he wouldn't reach the outside part of the plate with a broom handle. It took a call from Tony f'ing Olivia to tell him to move closer, he did and shortly thereafter he went on a hot streak. Watching Morneau in early July, his head was moving so much it was obvious why he was struggling to make contact. I said to a friend, "watch, if he stops moving his head so much he's going to get hot", a few weeks later he did and he said it came about because him and Joe Mauer looked at video and talked about it. Finally, on hitting, this team is way too reactive... very few of the hitters seem to guess or anticipate early in the count. We are constantly fouling pitches off that should be ripped in the gap. If you're a hitter, you've got to guess. Second example, we trotted out just above everyone to try as a starter and yet Anthony Swarzak remained in the pen despite consistently pitching well in longer relief stints. Why not give him another crack at the rotation. Also, Samuel Deduno. Guy obviously has nasty stuff, but the inability of the coaching staff to get him to throw strikes is frustrating. Also, Mike Pelfrey. His arm was really live given it was on an operating table last year, but he has got to change speeds. That killed him this year. In several starts I watched he was often squeezed by the umpire but he also had guys hit a lot of quality pitches very hard. Keep guys off balance more and they won't do that. I won't even mention Liriano. Even though I'm pissed this staff didn't do better, this was just not a good lineup or a good staff. At best they were going to be maybe .500 or a touch better.

 

Finally, as to Gardy. Gardy talks endlessly about doing the fundamental things to win but each night we'd see sloppy play. At some point the blame for shifts to the manager.

 

Maybe we'll time it right in 2 to 3 years and get lucky but unless we do the following:

- get a better return on free agent dollars (to fill in around core players)

- take smarter at-bats instead of always looking to slap the ball the other way

- play the percentages to gain an advantage

- get more out of the pitchers we have in AA-MLB

 

We might end up wasting the prime years of Sano-Buxton-Arcia-Meyer the same way we wasted the prime years of Mauer-Morneau-Santana-Nathan.

 

The 2013 Baseball Prospectus preview of the Twins was spot on. To paraphrase: TK was Gardy's mentor. Most people tend to emulate their mentors but amplify their mentor's points of emphasis. When strategies or viewpoints are taken to an extreme, they usually collapse. Gardy has taken the "fundamental" approach preached by TK to an extreme at it has come at the expense of things like power and strikeouts.

 

The results of 2013 were disappointing, though not unexpected. What was more worrisome to me was to see so little change in the way things are done despite our 3rd 90+ loss season in a row. I think 2013 exposed some big flaws in how this team was built and how it was managed.

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

Seth: I thought it was a great article from a different perspective. I enjoyed it.

 

I am neutral on Gardy coming back--but maybe he deserves a chance with a better roster. I am sure if fired, Gardy would have gotten a job within a month (here in DC likely). I definitely prefer Gardy to Glynn and Molitar who have no big league managing experience. If 2014 continues the trend, fire him next year...

[Guest USAFChief]

I am not surprised that Gardenhire is back, and I don't think he is the problem, though I probably would side with those who say a fresh voice would be appropriate at this time.

 

That said, one thing this may help is attracting FAs. Gardenhire is well respected around the league and I would think that has to be a plus when trying to sell the club to prospective new players.

Let's hope you're correct.

 

However, that perspective doesn't match well with TR's famous "can't give our money away" quote. Or for that matter, with the opinions of many posters here who claim FAs won't come here, or at the least would require a massive "overpay."

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

I enjoyed the article Seth. I liked the different perspective. I am not surprised to see Gardy coming back--a reward for the 998 wins. I prefer him to Molitor (no managing experience) and most others mentioned.

[Kwak]

"However the only thing worse than making a move to appease the players is a move to appease the fans."

 

Really? It sounds as if the hierarchy in this fantasy world is: Pohlads>Twins>Ryan>Gardenhire>Players>Fans

 

Or are there some more entities between Gardenhire and the fans?--Like say local government and local businesses and gosh knows--and finally at the very bottom--fans. WOW! It makes me wonder who really wrote that?

 

But, I will concede that it sure appears as if the TPTB consider the fans are nothing more than sheep to be sheared and later slaughtered.

 

Consider--Not even ONE change in management! It's as if had been a total success--World Series Champions, best regular season record, over-full stadium with people panting ("overpaying") to get a ticket from a re-seller,... I lived in chicago when the Bulls had their championship runs--and that's what is was like.--I'm sorry is that happening in Minneapolis/

Even the most successful companies make some changes--competition requires constant improvement!--But Not the Twins! Simply shuffle the cards, but a "vet" who "has won" (clearly there aren't any on this team!) sprinkle a few new faces bent on "overachieving"--and we're good! The fault lies with (drumroll please) injuries and underachieving (disloyal?) players.

 

They are good sandwiches--but I don't consider them that good.

[CharacterGroove]

Gardy is the right man for the job, the fact that he would have had other offers within a day of getting "canned" proves this.

 

People have said time and time again that Gardy should be let go, but I have yet to hear ONE person say who they should bring in instead that is a clear upgrade.

 

Whether he's the right right man for the job is an open question. But your "fact" proves nothing to the answer. It only proves that other teams feel he's right for their jobs.

 

Meanwhile the Twins have substantial evidence to suggest he's not the guy to turn the Twins around.

[Oldgoat_MN]

My initial reaction to hearing the Anderson was coming back was disappointment. But then I thought, if I'm saying that there's not much that Gardy or any manager could have done with this roster, a big part of that has to be saying that there isn't much that Anderson can do with that pitching staff.

 

And, to be fair, he did well with the bullpen, for the most part. He deserves some credit for Perkins, Fien, Burton, turning Duensing's season around, and working through things with Ryan Pressly. He coaxed Kevin Correia to arguably his best season of his career, in his first year in the American League. He should get some credit for Sam Deduno's big drop in BB/9.

 

I've always thought Anderson was overrated. He got a ton of credit for Guardado and Hawkins, and he's had a few successes since then.

 

I'm not a huge fan, but I can't be upset either.

 

Thank you Seth. I thought the bullpen coach worked mostly with the bullpen guys, but I'm sure they mix it up.

Appreciate the feedback.

[Shane Wahl]

Maybe another way to look at the past three years is to check the "what if" posts made by various people (I believe Seth did one last year and this year) with regard to "if X can remain healthy, if X finds the strike zone, if X prospect emerges", etc. etc. "then the Twins have a chance at a competitive team." Take the list for going into 2012, the list for going into 2013, and then make a list for going into 2014 and see if that list has gotten bigger each year or not.

 

I look toward 2014 and have to believe the list is bigger than ever. Going into 2013 the list would include Morneau bouncing back . . . but everything else on that list, ranging from the emergence of Aaron Hicks to the "progress" of Trevor Plouffe to mitigating the SP deficit is the same. I mean, I would contend that we still don't know about Parmelee and even Hendriks in full still. Now add in Mauer's health concerns again, Willingham returning to even a shadow of 2012, multiple prospects emerging, Dozier a fluke?, the SP situation looks actually worse with more question marks now than even last year, etc.

 

The rebuild hasn't even officially started yet! Things are going backwards with more hope and dream "what ifs" to become relevant and get over even 70 wins!

 

And *no one* gets held accountable for this?

[ThePuck]

Maybe another way to look at the past three years is to check the "what if" posts made by various people (I believe Seth did one last year and this year) with regard to "if X can remain healthy, if X finds the strike zone, if X prospect emerges", etc. etc. "then the Twins have a chance at a competitive team." Take the list for going into 2012, the list for going into 2013, and then make a list for going into 2014 and see if that list has gotten bigger each year or not.

 

I look toward 2014 and have to believe the list is bigger than ever. Going into 2013 the list would include Morneau bouncing back . . . but everything else on that list, ranging from the emergence of Aaron Hicks to the "progress" of Trevor Plouffe to mitigating the SP deficit is the same. I mean, I would contend that we still don't know about Parmelee and even Hendriks in full still. Now add in Mauer's health concerns again, Willingham returning to even a shadow of 2012, multiple prospects emerging, Dozier a fluke?, the SP situation looks actually worse with more question marks now than even last year, etc.

 

The rebuild hasn't even officially started yet! Things are going backwards with more hope and dream "what ifs" to become relevant and get over even 70 wins!

 

And *no one* gets held accountable for this?

 

If you have to hope that everything goes right in order to even be competitive, the team you built isn't that good to begin with. Players have off years, players get injured, the 'what if' game is a good way to feel better about the talent, but it doesn't really change anything. A team needs to add talent, talent and more talent in all ways possible all the time. Quality depth is good.

[LaBombo]

And *no one* gets held accountable for this?

Of course not. The front office probably at least partly blames misguided fans, wrapped up in the simple arithmetic of wins and losses instead of appreciating baseball played "the Twins way", who've stopped paying attention and thereby reduced the revenue pool and resulting player salary available.

 

And it seems extremely likely we'll be held accountable throughout off-season free agency...

[Kwak]

Of course not. The front office probably at least partly blames misguided fans, wrapped up in the simple arithmetic of wins and losses instead of appreciating baseball played "the Twins way", who've stopped paying attention and thereby reduced the revenue pool and resulting player salary available.

 

And it seems extremely likely we'll be held accountable throughout off-season free agency...

 

The Twins reward loyalty and punish "disloyalty"--so that is expected, it's our fault that the team loses.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

How would you want your boss and his or her superiors to respond?

 

-------

This analogy that you're making, Seth, is completely off point. There are only 30 MLB managers in the WORLD. It's an extremely competitive field where performance is really the end all deciding factor of whether you keep their job. Where as for common folk, there are 1,000s, 100,000s, millions even, that all do the same job where the work isn't as competitive and demanding. If Obama wasn't being a successful president, we'd vote him out and get someone who can.Let's keep it in baseball speak. It's not bad for the Twins if the grounds crew does their job, but not perfectly. It is bad if the people on top, like Gardy, aren't at an optimal level and have proven that their skills aren't up to current job standards. Being a manager for the Twins is much different than it was in 2006. We need a manager who works well with our youth, uses his head more than his gut, and has some experience. Gardy only meets one of those.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

Smart people know that they aren't experts at everything and will choose to learn from someone who is. You can choose whether or not you want to listen to someone who knows more than you or be stubborn and try it yourself. The Twins aren't being smart by refusing to get someone who knows something different than what is currently going on.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

How would you want your boss and his or her superiors to respond?

 

-------

This analogy that you're making, Seth, is completely off point. There are only 30 MLB managers in the WORLD. It's an extremely competitive field where performance is really the end all deciding factor of whether you keep their job. Where as for common folk, there are 1,000s, 100,000s, millions even, that all do the same job where the work isn't as competitive and demanding. If Obama wasn't being a successful president, we'd vote him out and get someone who can.Let's keep it in baseball speak. It's not bad for the Twins if the grounds crew does their job, but not perfectly. It is bad if the people on top, like Gardy, aren't at an optimal level and have proven that their skills aren't up to current job standards. Being a manager for the Twins is much different than it was in 2006. We need a manager who works well with our youth, uses his head more than his gut, and has some experience. Gardy only meets one of those.

The economics of the situation dictate more patience , not less. If there are millions of people qualified and trying to get the job, it dictates a shorter leash than Gardy's situation where there are dozens of qualified candidates who are looking to fill the role. That being said, 9 years of acceptable results followed by 3 years of worst among your peers results, absolutely deserves of being fired. Exceeding expectations (World Series champ) garners the longer leash.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Alright Seth, I've argued with myself into a corner where I have to agree with you. While I'm still pissed about the status quo and coming to grips with being a fan of a crappy team, my argument stands true. If you suck at your job, but there's nobody better to replace you, and you've had success in the past, then your boss is a fool to replace you with someone worse. It makes me sad:(