Article: Is Pedro Florimon Meeting or Exceeding Expectations?

[SpitefulRabbit617]

Definately have to say that watching Dozier and Florimon together is fun to watch. Even his homeruns are a welcome surprise.

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

Using the eyeball test--I would have to say that Dozier/Florimon are about equal to Rivas/Guzman--definitely not better. I still have to get over Dozier's error (not charged) in the game here in DC.

 

None of us know where these two will be in 2015 or later. Just look at the Nats utility guy (Lombardozzi--a familiar name to Twins fans)--he had a career year in 2012 and is a bum this year.

 

I hope Florimon can continue to improve--and Rosario plays 2B with Dozier in the utility role--but who knows.

[Brandon]

If you go back and look at the past Twins teams you will see the Twins like to find players who have holes in their game but still contribute to the team as they help keep costs down. If Florimon plays elite defense and can hit just emough to occaionally contribute at SS, IE 10 HR 10 SB .300 OBP .325 SLG. He has a job plain and simple. there are enough bats comming up in the system to cover him. With Mauer's bat at C giving us a huge advantage on offense if the rest of the offense is up to par then we can absorb a hole in the line up that gives us elite defense at one of the most important positions in the field. The bat will also keep Florimons price down and he will be older and a field leader on the next wave of Twins teams as long as the defense is there and it should be. You can put me on record that if Florimon has a .625 OPS moving forward he will be the SS for the next 4-5 seasons.

[blairpaul715]

Anyone have interest in Tim Beckham , who was a #1 pick of the Rays in 2008, has the arm , just might be short on range, but still has the chance to provide power as a shortstop and is only 23, still has a chance to be very good IMO. Not sure what Rays plans are for him as they have Lee as a higher ranked shortstop prospect.

[stringer bell]

1. CF Buxton

2. RF Mauer

3. DH Arcia

4. 1B Sano

5. 3B Rosario

6. LF Hicks

7. 2B Dozier

8. C Pinto

9. SS Santana

That would be a bit different from what is being projected, however you may be closer to correct than some of the projections. I guess I would have Rosario in left, Hicks in right, Mauer at 1b and Arcia DH if these were the nine starters.

[Beezer07]

1. CF Buxton

2. RF Mauer

3. DH Arcia

4. 1B Sano

5. 3B Rosario

6. LF Hicks

7. 2B Dozier

8. C Pinto

9. SS Santana

 

When exactly is Mauer going to learn to play RF? 2 years from now, when he's 2 years older and has played 2 more years of catcher? I can't imagine, fathom, or anything else a world where Mauer ever plays anything other than C, 1B, or DH.

[Oldgoat_MN]

A World Series team would hopefully have an above average player at every position.

Florimon is clearly an above average fielder by any Baseball-Reference or Fangraphs measure.

 

At his peak would you decline to have Reggie Jackson on your team because he was a terrible RF?

 

It's about the whole game, not just offense. Not every team has a Tulo.

 

Of course if a Tulo comes along I expect the Twins would grab him, but Pedro can add some WAR doing what he's doing now.

[Erock]

Why are people still so high on Santana? At best, I think he is what Florimon is now.

[Linus]

Here is the critical part about whether Pedro cuts it on a winning team. Besides catcher, shortstop is probably the most difficult position to find players that are excellent offensively and defensively. It is much more realistic to find upgrades at all other positions compared to SS. So, yes, I'm sure the Twins would love to find someone with Floriman's defense and is a great hitter but based on what's out there, its not likely to happen and I certainly would not advocate trading valuable prospects for a SS that likely will not be substantially better overall. In the meantime, his defense is very useful and let's just hope the regularly playing time results in improving hitting stats over the next year.

[Dave T]

The Twins have a pitch-to-contact starting pitching staff. Lots of ground balls. Florimon's range has been astounding to me. Especially when compared to the stiffs we've had playing there the past few years. I like to see good defensive plays, and I've enjoyed quite a few of them this year. The Twins lead the majors in double plays, and most of that is due to Florimon and Dozier.

 

maybe Rosario can play 1B?

[Brandon]

Realistically speaking every single starter on our currently terrible team could also theoretically be a starter on a World Series winning team if the roster supports them. That doesn't mean they're a player you should target as being a piece that you build around when shooting for the World Series.

 

if i remember right the lineup was pretty much about the same in 1990 last place team vs 1991 world series team.

[ThePuck]

if i remember right the lineup was pretty much about the same in 1990 last place team vs 1991 world series team.

 

Besides the 2B, 3B, DH a starting pitcher or two, and a good chunk of the bullpen.

[snepp]

The Twins lead the majors in double plays, and most of that is due to Florimon and Dozier.

 

I don't know about most. I think you undersell the pitching staff's ability to fill the bases with runners (2nd worst in the league) while not striking anybody out (worst in the league).

[ashbury]

I don't know about most. I think you undersell the pitching staff's ability to fill the bases with runners (2nd worst in the league) while not striking anybody out (worst in the league).

 

Yeah. It amazes me that in a sport that values rate stats like BA and ERA, no normalization for numbers of chances occurs (in the commonly mentioned stats) for RBI and DP and so forth.

[Brandon]

Besides the 2B, 3B, DH a starting pitcher or two, and a good chunk of the bullpen.

 

just the lineup not the pitching staff. and wasnt it only half a new 3b as they platooned in 91.

[John Bonnes]

if i remember right the lineup was pretty much about the same in 1990 last place team vs 1991 world series team.

 

There was the change at 3B, which was really a downgrade - Gaetti to Pags/Leius. But there were two huge upgrades:

 

• Knoblauch had that remarkable rookie year at 2B and won ROY. Huge upgrade.
  
• Chili Davis at DH. He got some votes for MVP that year.
  

 

So it was just a couple of pieces, but they ended up being big pieces.

[ThePuck]

just the lineup not the pitching staff. and wasnt it only half a new 3b as they platooned in 91.

 

Gaetti was gone...and they had one guy who played in 121 games at 3B...so I suppose there may have been a platoon, but Gaetti wasn't part of it. So I guess I just consider that a new 3B. I also remember Davis, Morris and Knoblauch coming on board.

 

To be honest, it was my first year back in Panama, I got some baseball games, but not any Twins game until playoffs. So it was a bummer not being able to see the season.

[notoriousgod71]

There was the change at 3B, which was really a downgrade - Gaetti to Pags/Leius. But there were two huge upgrades:

 

• Knoblauch had that remarkable rookie year at 2B and won ROY. Huge upgrade.
  
• Chili Davis at DH. He got some votes for MVP that year.
  

 

So it was just a couple of pieces, but they ended up being big pieces.

 

 

Pags/Leius in '91 were an upgrade over Gaetti from 1990. Gaetti was truly miserable in '90 (and '89 and '91 and '92).

[Thrylos]

There was the change at 3B, which was really a downgrade - Gaetti to Pags/Leius. But there were two huge upgrades:

 

• Knoblauch had that remarkable rookie year at 2B and won ROY. Huge upgrade.
  
• Chili Davis at DH. He got some votes for MVP that year.
  

 

So it was just a couple of pieces, but they ended up being big pieces.

 

Agree about Knoblauch and Chili.

 

Funny enough the 1991 platoon at 3B was an upgrade over Gaetti in 1990:

.274/.334/.390 101 OPS+ for 1991 from 3B vs. .235/.279/.377 84 OPS+

 

Another major difference was the institution of Shane Mack at RF (who took over John Moses in late 1990). In 1990 RF production was: .243/.307/.356 78 OPS+ vs. .328/.386/.521 138 OPS+ in 1991.

 

Small changes but made a difference. Similarly, on paper the 2010 team was not that different from the 2011 team

[70charger]

A World Series team would hopefully have an above average player at every position.

Florimon is clearly an above average fielder by any Baseball-Reference or Fangraphs measure.

 

At his peak would you decline to have Reggie Jackson on your team because he was a terrible RF?

 

It's about the whole game, not just offense. Not every team has a Tulo.

 

Of course if a Tulo comes along I expect the Twins would grab him, but Pedro can add some WAR doing what he's doing now.

 

This is so right. I remember lots of consternation on another thread about how it's somehow silly to think that we can "hide" a bad hitter in the lineup. Yes, in a perfect world, we want top-notch defense combined with top-notch offense at every single position on the field and bench. Is this realistic? You tell me.

 

Frankly, I had very low expectations of Flormion coming into this year. I expected him to be gone by now, and I'm happy to eat crow. I also think that with the way he's performing, he'd fit in very nicely on a championship team with other offensive weapons. There is no such thing as a perfect team.

[jimbo92107]

I like Pedro Florimon. He reminds me of Greg Gagne - very fast, great defense, occasional pop in his bat, and we all wish he would bat .300, but it just ain't gonna happen. The team did pretty well with Gagne, and I think now it can get along just fine with Florimon.

[twinsnorth49]

If anyone told me at the start of the season that Florimon would be a 2 WAR, I'd have said "I'm in".

 

I'm pleasantly surprised.

[Reider]

As a fellow SS, when I saw Florimon last year, he was green, but I saw the potential he had. Defensively, Florimon has been nothing short of outstanding this year. I absolutely love watching this guy play the position. He has great range and a strong arm. He also has good speed and seems to have a good baseball IQ. If you consider the fact that he's had some clutch hits this year, including a few home runs, we honestly can't ask much more from him in his first year as a full time SS.

 

Time will tell how things go in the future, but considering he has shown a lot of improvement in such a short period of time, there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that he is the starting SS in 2014 and we'll go from there.

 

Also, I must say Dozier has been a pleasant surprise this year, especially over the last few weeks. He's been solid in the field and has obviously been getting it done at the plate with some big hits. It will be interesting to see how things go for him in the future, but right now I am definitely appreciating his effort.

[Fanatic Jack]

Really good article!! I have been very impressed with Florimon all year. He is in a tremendous slump right now, but will get better as he gets more plate appearances. Hell Greg Gagne only had a lifetime batting average of .254. He is terrific defensively, good base stealer, and some pop in his bat. Florimon and Dozier have been real good this year. Pitching still the huge issue with this club. Remember this comment is coming from Mr. Negative.

[Oldgoat_MN]

Really good article!! I have been very impressed with Florimon all year. He is in a tremendous slump right now, but will get better as he gets more plate appearances. Hell Greg Gagne only had a lifetime batting average of .254. He is terrific defensively, good base stealer, and some pop in his bat. Florimon and Dozier have been real good this year. Pitching still the huge issue with this club. Remember this comment is coming from Mr. Negative.

 

Who are you and what did you do with Jack?