It's Time to Get This Started - Bring Up the Kids in 2014

[drjim]

Name the players that came up last year,a nd helped last yaer and this year.....name the players the year before, or this year year.....ok, that's a short list. This team is awful, with no good young players. Houston and Miami at least have some good young players. Why do NONE of their "prospects" since Garza? come and be good right away, and be good for mor than 1-2 years? For a team that says its ENTIRE strategy is to build through the minors......

 

I can't wait for Ryan to get all the credit for Arcia, Sano, and Rosario.....

 

I would grant Stanton and Fernandez for Miami, but there isn't a player on Houston's mlb roster over Arcia.

[Mike Sixel]

That wasn't really the point.....the point is, they suck at drafting and developing players, and that is their entire strategy.

[stringer bell]

That wasn't really the point.....the point is, they suck at drafting and developing players, and that is their entire strategy.

If, as you say, "they suck at drafting and developing players, and that is their entire strategy", how do you explain that the Twins aren't the Pirates or the Royals? Those teams have been losers since the last century. The team has done something right. That said, I hope they explore other options rather than just waiting for their promising farm products to develop. This is especially true of the pitchers.

[ThePuck]

If, as you say, "they suck at drafting and developing players, and that is their entire strategy", how do you explain that the Twins aren't the Pirates or the Royals? Those teams have been losers since the last century. The team has done something right. That said, I hope they explore other options rather than just waiting for their promising farm products to develop. This is especially true of the pitchers.

 

Back in 2010, even at the age of 40, I could run 3 miles in like 20 minutes. In 2008 I ran a 10K in 45 minutes and change. I used to be a pretty darn good semi-long distance runner.

 

I suck at running NOW...

[drjim]

That wasn't really the point.....the point is, they suck at drafting and developing players, and that is their entire strategy.

 

Then why not say that instead of using false examples? Surely you don't need to overstate the current Twins situation.

[BabyJesusBuxton]

The only way for the Twins to get back to their winning ways is to go out and SIGN good quality starting pitching. They have a few arms getting close in the minor leagues but there is no guarantee they succeed.

 

I think they need to sign a quality major league bat this offseason for 2-3 years who can play 1B or MI (Morneau's at bats) unless the FO thinks Parmelee and Colabello are the short term answer at 1st.. I don't see it as of now.

 

If you look at the Twins Achilles heel the last two years it has been pitching. Ryan is attempting to build a core through the minor leagues via drafts and trades but now he needs to begin assembling the extra pieces that are needed from outside the organization.

 

All this is easier said than done obviously.

[stringer bell]

There seems to be a special aversion to paying the price for quality pitching. While it makes sense to be skeptical (there are always plenty of busts among free agent pitcher signings), that doesn't mean the Twins should totally avoid the top half of available FA pitchers, as they have year after year.

[Monkeypaws]

The Twins have not managed this transition too well - the veterans are drying up before the kids are ready. One could easily blame the front office for letting the real leaders go - Hunter and Cuddy in particular. It's sad that the Twins routinely let players like this slip through their fingers.

 

Next year promises to be worse than this one. 2015 might be a season promise.

[drjim]

The only way for the Twins to get back to their winning ways is to go out and SIGN good quality starting pitching. They have a few arms getting close in the minor leagues but there is no guarantee they succeed.

 

I think they need to sign a quality major league bat this offseason for 2-3 years who can play 1B or MI (Morneau's at bats) unless the FO thinks Parmelee and Colabello are the short term answer at 1st.. I don't see it as of now.

 

If you look at the Twins Achilles heel the last two years it has been pitching. Ryan is attempting to build a core through the minor leagues via drafts and trades but now he needs to begin assembling the extra pieces that are needed from outside the organization.

 

All this is easier said than done obviously.

 

I would agree with this in an ideal world. Here is a link of available free agents. I don't know if there is anything that really fits your criteria. There certainly aren't any SSs and I wouldn't trust any of the 1Bs for more than a year, maybe Morales but I'm still skeptical.

 

Pitchers are a little dicey, but there is some depth in second tier guys.

 

2014 MLB Free Agents: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

[old nurse]

Back in 2010, even at the age of 40, I could run 3 miles in like 20 minutes. In 2008 I ran a 10K in 45 minutes and change. I used to be a pretty darn good semi-long distance runner.

 

I suck at running NOW...

 

Get your butt back out there, you have some talent. My Pr for a 5k was 22 minutes. 10 miler in 79. I also suck now, but I am going to get a qualifing time before I am 60.

[ThePuck]

Get your butt back out there, you have some talent. My Pr for a 5k was 22 minutes. 10 miler in 79.

 

That 10K was in the Iraqi heat...ugh, that was a rough run.

[Trevor0333]

Arcia, Parmelee, Gibson, & Hicks should all start next year. Pinto, Meyer, May, Rosario, Sano, Tonkin, & Hermenson should all be mid season callups and Buxton possibly in September. 2015 is the real year for the kids, You start next year with Plouffe, Dozier, Mastrioanni, Willingham, Doumit, Correa, & Burton then trade them all at the deadline to make way for the next wave.

[Siehbiscuit]

I would go after a veteran like Josh Johnson on a one year deal in FA as well as a hitter like Mark Reynolds to play 1B/3B/DH to both serve as guys to bridge the gap, but also provide upside. Both guys still 30.

[Kwak]

There seems to be a special aversion to paying the price for quality pitching. While it makes sense to be skeptical (there are always plenty of busts among free agent pitcher signings), that doesn't mean the Twins should totally avoid the top half of available FA pitchers, as they have year after year.

 

Their mission is to slash payroll. Second is to build a winning team without spending much. There was a line in Moneyball where Beane (Pitt) says "...if we win we'll change baseball." This is the gospel to Ryan--he wants to be hailed as the GM who won without spending. Ownership is more than glad to give him plenty of leeway--though they will quip that they approved a higher budget than what Ryan spent.

[drjim]

Their mission is to slash payroll. Second is to build a winning team without spending much. There was a line in Moneyball where Beane (Pitt) says "...if we win we'll change baseball." This is the gospel to Ryan--he wants to be hailed as the GM who won without spending. Ownership is more than glad to give him plenty of leeway--though they will quip that they approved a higher budget than what Ryan spent.

 

Do you honestly believe this? And if so, how in the world do you possibly support this franchise?

[Riverbrian]

There was a line in Moneyball where Beane (Pitt) says "...if we win we'll change baseball." This is the gospel to Ryan--he wants to be hailed as the GM who won without spending.

 

1. Moneyball was written by Aaron Sorkin.

2. I want to be known as the guy who doesn't know what is gospel to Terry Ryan or anyone That I don't know very well.

[old nurse]

Their mission is to slash payroll. Second is to build a winning team without spending much. There was a line in Moneyball where Beane (Pitt) says "...if we win we'll change baseball." This is the gospel to Ryan--he wants to be hailed as the GM who won without spending. Ownership is more than glad to give him plenty of leeway--though they will quip that they approved a higher budget than what Ryan spent.

 

Not spending money, isn't that what Oakland does.

[old nurse]

That 10K was in the Iraqi heat...ugh, that was a rough run.

 

Way to go. I wilted when it was 84 for the Twin Cities.

[LaBombo]

That 10K was in the Iraqi heat...ugh, that was a rough run.

Pffft. That's a dry heat, compared to Bahrain, at least. Fewer casualties due to enemy action, though. Ok, fine, you ran in the less favorable runners' park.

[LaBombo]

Way to go. I wilted when it was 84 for the Twin Cities.

 

84... and humid, though? Makes all the difference...

[ThePuck]

Pffft. That's a dry heat, compared to Bahrain, at least. Fewer casualties due to enemy action, though. Ok, fine, you ran in the less favorable runners' park.

 

Yeah, I was at Ali Air Base, Iraq in 2008. Not to be confused with Ali Al Salem Air Base in Kuwait. It was dry, but still darn hot.

 

In 2010, I got to run daily in Qatar...that's darn hot and so very humid. You knew it was going to be a humid day when you went outside at 0530 and your glasses instantly fogged up :-) Now, there, I wouldn't run a 10K. My boss tried to ge me to, and I was like, yeah no. 3 miles was my limit there.

 

No more deserts for me, though.

[ThePuck]

Anyway, probably more info than anyone wanted. Back to topic.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Yeah, I was at Ali Air Base, Iraq in 2008. Not to be confused with Ali Al Salem Air Base in Kuwait. It was dry, but still darn hot.

 

In 2010, I got to run daily in Qatar...that's darn hot and so very humid. You knew it was going to be a humid day when you went outside at 0530 and your glasses instantly fogged up :-) Now, there, I wouldn't run a 10K. My boss tried to ge me to, and I was like, yeah no. 3 miles was my limit there.

 

No more deserts for me, though.

 

I'm sick of you guys already. Ran a 10k in 52 minutes in college. Training for my first Marathon right now and would be thrilled if I could do a 10k in 65 minutes right now.

[Mike Sixel]

Not spending money, isn't that what Oakland does.

 

cespades ring a bell?

[Rosterman]

Let's take a somewhat quick look at the Twins Drafting in the past decade and where players are in the system. We all know it is a crapshoot and who makes it is beyond anyone's comprehension. But...

 

starting with the Class of 2003...and looking at those still in the minors AA or above...

 

2003

Made it to the majors: Baker, Speigner, John Gaub, Travis Metcalf, Mike Hollimon, Steve Pearce.

Still in the minors AA or above: Marques Smith (White Sox).

 

What's telling in the above, and you'll see as we go on, is where guys are that DIDN'T sign with the Twins, though drafted.

Also, look at those names that make the majors and ask where they are now and what they actually contributed to baseball in the majors.

 

2004

Majors: Plouffe, Perkins, Waldrop, Fox, Swarzak, Tolbert.

In the minors: No one.

 

2005

Majors: Garza, Slowey, Duensing, Tolleson, Burnett, Tosoni, David Hernden, Yonder Alonzo

In the minors: Leesman (CWS(, Lara (SD), Bromberg (Pitts)

 

2006: Parmelee, Benson, Robertson, Manship, Valencia, Dinkelman, Slama, J.D. Martinez

Still in minors: Mitchell (CWS), Randy Boone (Tor), Aaron Baker (Atl)

 

2007: Ben Revere

The Twins have three players in their system AA-AAA.

Others still around: Striz (Bos), Soto (CHC), Rosin (Phi), Chase Anderson (AZ), Griffin (AZ), Heston (SF)

 

2008: Hicks, Tonkin

The Twins still have 7 draftees AA-AAA.

Others in system: Gutierrez (CHC), Ladendorf (A's), Wong (STL), Ryan Barrett (WAS), Conley (MIA), Springer (HOU), Spina (A's), Lehman (Was), Prosica (Sea)

 

2009: Gibson, Dozier, Herrmann

One player in system AA-AAA (Dakota Watts)

Others: Mario Hollands (STL), Bullock (atl - but released, I think), Stilson (Tor)

 

2010

No MLS

12 players still is system AA-AAA

Others: Cody martin (Atl)

 

2011

AA-AAA ball: Summers, Johnson, Petersen (that's it)

Others: Clinard (Det), Ramsey (Stl)

 

2012

Baxendale is the only one to make it past A-Ball so far.

 

It looks like a lot of the unsigned draftees have fared better than actual Twin draftees, but still the mix of those that did make it to the majors (Yonder for example) and didn't is wide.

 

And of those that made it the the majors with the Twins.......

 

Starters: Baker, Garza, Fox, Slowey, Manship, Gibson

Bullpen: Perkins, Waldrop, Swarzak, Burnett, Duensing, Robertson, Slama, Tonkin

 

C: Herrmann

1B: Parmelee

2B: Dinkelman, Dozier

SS: Tolbert

3B: Plouffe, Valencia

OF: Tosoni, Revere, Benson, Hicks

 

Of course, we go back to 1999 to find the lst draftee wtill with the Twins...

 

1999: Morneau, Bowen, Slowcum, Wolfe, Bowyer, Eyre, Tiffee in majors

2000: Adam Johnson, Durbin, Jason Miller, Rabe, Heilman, Malholm, Dan Davidson, Kubel

2001: Mauer, Morales, Cameron, Blackburn

2002: Span, Crain, Neshek, Brock Peterson, Kyle Phillips, Meek, Clete Thomas, Jeff Clement

 

We could still have quite a team of homegrown talent if you mix some of those names in with the ones positioned above, not to mention Hunter and Cuddyer still roaming the outfields of baseball.

[Mike Sixel]

Thanks rosterman....I predict some will like those results, and some will not. My point on these boards is consistent, if you refuse to pay market rates for top talent, you have to be far superior than other teams in drafting to be successful, you have to spend more on scouts. You have to leave no stone unturned. You have to be aggressive in pursuit of amateurs and minor leaguers. They are not any of that under Ryan, IMO. If your strategy revolves around drafting and developing, you have to be awesome at it, even if you are not picking in the top 5. Or, you have multiple seasons with 90 plus losses with few young good players n the roster to even offer hope. Basically, they failed to execute their strategy at the end of Ryan's first term. The low minors looks good for 2015 and beyond, but man, that is a betting on everything working.