Twins 2, Guardians 5: Nauseating Ninth Repeats Another Late Loss to Cleveland

[Nashvilletwin]

10 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

69-78. Is this "meaningful baseball" in September? Remember, Tom Pohlad said that payroll increases are contingent on being competitive in 2026.

To earn a WC spot, the Twins probably need to go 13-2 or better.

To get to .500, they need to go 12-3.

To beat their Fangraphs preseason projection, they need to go 8-7 or better.

To avoid last seasons record, they need to go 4-11 or better,

Old man Pohlad was a ruthless businessman - you have to give him that.

His kids are slick talking knuckleheads who can’t carry their father’s jock.  

[JD-TWINS]

10 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

69-78. Is this "meaningful baseball" in September? Remember, Tom Pohlad said that payroll increases are contingent on being competitive in 2026.

To earn a WC spot, the Twins probably need to go 13-2 or better.

To get to .500, they need to go 12-3.

To beat their Fangraphs preseason projection, they need to go 8-7 or better.

To avoid last seasons record, they need to go 4-11 or better,

I’m not a Pohlad’s ownership proponent …… Tom seems to have given himself a “plausible out” with his statement you share here.

With $106M payroll in ‘26 with $10M going to Houston for Correa……..$22M going to Pablo Lopez ………$74M on the field for the season ……. sickening is the only way to describe the support from Ownership.

That said …….. a number of things didn’t quite go according to plan.

Pitching: Lopez out for season - Ober will be down 10 starts - Ryan will be down 8 starts - Abel started 3 games - Sim Richardson started 10 games & went 0-7 with a 7.74ERA & -1.3 WAR in first 2 months - Festa threw ZERO innings - those are just some of the issues…….. Sands ineffective/hurt - Banda started to shine over 7-8 weeks, then hurt, etc.

Offense: Matt Wallner disappeared - Buxton played 93 games & maybe 75 that were healthy - Keaschall didn’t hit for first 10 weeks - Lewis was sent down - Jeffers breaks his hand & misses 8 weeks - Caratini & Bell are essentially feast or famine - Rodriguez & Jenkins were hurt for a loooong stretch, no support/depth that was expected at some point, etc., etc.

Defense: Keaschall can’t play 2B - can’t play CF (understandable) - struggles a bit in RF - can’t throw at all!!

Brooks Lee - complete bust at SS.

I get that most/many here will say that these things happen and there should be depth in an organization. Very true. To me, the FO has very little culpability in this season’s results ………. without support from ownership this Team, entering Spring Training had a more than reasonable roster to compete/win the AL Central.

However, with $106M spend ……… the depth is pretty difficult for any Player Personnel department to overcome…… at last with any realism for positive results!

[Nashvilletwin]

2 hours ago, Saxophone Joe said:

Yeah…look at the A’s right now. Completely decimated by injuries yet 7-3 in their last 10 games. Totally ruining the Mariners’ & Rangers’ playoff hopes. Did us no favors in Sacramento either. How to play spoiler 101.

Injury complaints are for losers.  Period.

See the Twins and Vikings.

[HarmonK03]

2 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

I get that most/many here will say that these things happen and there should be depth in an organization. Very true. To me, the FO has very little culpability in this season’s results ………. without support from ownership this Team, entering Spring Training had a more than reasonable roster to compete/win the AL Central.

However, with $106M spend ……… the depth is pretty difficult for any Player Personnel department to overcome…… at last with any realism for positive results!

But yet other organizations can do it.  This front office has had 10 years and it is the same year after year, use your resources to sign a league average at best vet who is not a needle mover and then block the development of younger players.  They have had no real plan and it shows with only one playoff win in that time period.

How people can continue to give this FO a pass I don't get it.  When the payroll was cut like it was, I get it for that year, but good executives know how to build a staff that will help them pivot.

[HarmonK03]

30 minutes ago, rv78 said:

Adding pieces from the scrap heap, ala Terry Ryan/Derek Falvey will never work. Never has.

I wouldn't lump in Ryan with Falvey.  Ryan wasn't as successful in his second stint, but he knew how to identify talent on the field not on a spreadsheet and made more good signings than bad.  And he knew the market he worked in and operated accordingly.

Falvey wanted to operate like he was in a bigger market than he was, he didn't live in reality and operate accordingly, imo.

[Nashvilletwin]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Culpepper, Jenkins, Matthews, Prielipp, Lee, Morris, Adams, Gomez, Funderburk, Clemens, Keaschall, Kreidler and Martin are all pre-arbitration players. That’s half the roster. They’re all playing. 

Rodriguez deserves a callup and Larnach should be benched. Beyond that I don’t see any moves that are necessary. Alan Roden deserves another chance but he would just take playing time away from Rodriguez, Jenkins or Keaschall. Is everyone super angry they haven’t brought back Eric Orze?

I’d give Sabato a few games at 1B and let Lewis take a seat.

[DJL44]

Just now, Nashvilletwin said:

I’d give Sabato a few games at 1B and let Lewis take a seat.

Sabato is an inadequate fielder and not as good at the plate as Lewis.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Nashvilletwin said:

I’d give Sabato a few games at 1B and let Lewis take a seat.

And Raya should be up. 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, DJL44 said:

Sabato is an inadequate fielder and not as good at the plate as Lewis.

Most certainly true. But I'd still consider it. Or Mendez more likely.

[JD-TWINS]

Just now, HarmonK03 said:

But yet other organizations can do it.  This front office has had 10 years and it is the same year after year, use your resources to sign a league average at best vet who is not a needle mover and then block the development of younger players.  They have had no real plan and it shows with only one playoff win in that time period.

How people can continue to give this FO a pass I don't get it.  When the payroll was cut like it was, I get it for that year, but good executives know how to build a staff that will help them pivot.

The flippin ownership spent $154M in ‘23 & $106M in ‘26………… until the past TWO SEASONS there has been no plan to spend at record low levels. The BREWERS & RAYS have had a plan in place and run their organizations with this approach as “the rule”………the comparison is the Yankees spending $150M less next year and then saying, “I don’t understand why they’ve regressed …… the RAYS can do it”

The FO is not as competent as the Rays - the guys for last number of years in Milwaukee came from the Rays……they are exceptional!! IMO, cannot point out TWO organizations that have success with depressed payrolls for 20 years, to where the Twins have been in the last couple years …… WITHOUT A LONG-TERM PLAN to be a depressed spending organization.

[HarmonK03]

2 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

The flippin ownership spent $154M in ‘23 & $106M in ‘26………… until the past TWO SEASONS there has been no plan to spend at record low levels. The BREWERS & RAYS have had a plan in place and run their organizations with this approach as “the rule”………the comparison is the Yankees spending $150M less next year and then saying, “I don’t understand why they’ve regressed …… the RAYS can do it”

The FO is not as competent as the Rays - the guys for last number of years in Milwaukee came from the Rays……they are exceptional!! IMO, cannot point out TWO organizations that have success with depressed payrolls for 20 years, to where the Twins have been in the last couple years …… WITHOUT A LONG-TERM PLAN to be a depressed spending organization.

And in three years Falvey couldn't come up with a plan to address the reduced spending.  It is not all about money.

[DJL44]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

And Raya should be up. 

He’s been okay lately, he was awful in July. They would have room for him if they weren’t carrying six starting pitchers.

[DJL44]

Rodriguez is up. Everyone can find a different axe to grind.

[Mike Sixel]

12 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

He’s been okay lately, he was awful in July. They would have room for him if they weren’t carrying six starting pitchers.

I'm just not concerned about winning right now. Give me youth and get them either ready for next year, or not part of the plan. I get others don't agree. 

[Andy MacPhail]

To compete, a team needs a lot of depth to spread out the load throughout the season, especially pitching. Thanks to the big selloff & poor offseason. our BP had no high-leverage RPs & no depth. Our rotation was good but lacked depth; with Lopez going down, put a lot of stress on the rotation. We started the season in a big hole. Combined with poor INF alignment & long IL stints from our All-Star veterans Buxton, Ryan & Jeffers, the odds were against the Twins. 

The youth played with a lot of heart that kept us viable, but the BP cost us a lot of close games. If our deadline trades were done in the offseason, IMO, we could be leading our division right now. We lacked depth except LH hitting OFers. For years, this team has collected & hoarded them which #1 didn't give proper MLB playing to all of them & #2 they weren't traded to help with quality depth where needed. Playing with a lot of heart, is very hard to sustain, especially for young players. With lack of depth, it takes its toll on the team. I don't blame the players for running out of gas; they gave their all. I blame recent FO.

[HarmonK03]

4 minutes ago, Andy MacPhail said:

I blame recent FO.

It's basically been the same FO for the last 10 years, I think they have had their chance, time to give someone an opportunity.

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

...Offense: Matt Wallner disappeared...

I found him! The Twins optioned him to AAA after 135 dreadful PA and after a week in AAA he started raking, but never had his number called again because the Twins stockpiled every mediocre, left handed hitting, defensively challenged player in MLB available for $8MM or less.

[D.C Twins]

One game out of the 5th lottery position and 2 games out of the 4th lottery position.

LFG!

 

[D.C Twins]

12 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

69-78. Is this "meaningful baseball" in September? Remember, Tom Pohlad said that payroll increases are contingent on being competitive in 2026.

To earn a WC spot, the Twins probably need to go 13-2 or better.

To get to .500, they need to go 12-3.

To beat their Fangraphs preseason projection, they need to go 8-7 or better.

To avoid last seasons record, they need to go 4-11 or better,

 Reference to TP, not LastOnePicked!

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, HarmonK03 said:

And in three years Falvey couldn't come up with a plan to address the reduced spending.  It is not all about money.

It’s a Sh….boatload about money!! Dodgers are spending $360 with $60 deferred……. Braves - Phillies - Cubs - Yankees - Red Sox ………  the Padres cut back to $220M for ‘26 …….money has little to do with year over year success though…… come on!

I understand TV deals & 2-3X market size relative to TWINS…….. but cutting over a 1/3 of player salaries in 3 years is B.S.

There are 2 consistent low spending outliers in the game …… Tampa & Milwaukee……… Marlins make a 2 month splash one in a while.

Again, if it were 2032 and the TWINS hadn’t spent any money on payroll for the players since ‘23, then there would be room to bitch ……….. there’s been no plan! Nobody told Falvey when he extended Correa that the budget in ‘24 was going to be $135M & $125M in ‘25 & then $106M in ‘26 - do you agree with that???? ……….. was there a plan to increase roster spending 5-10% a year for a decade and then cut it by 35% over the following 3 years? The FO is plugging holes in a dam that’s been shot up by the Pohlad’s ineffectiveness as owners!

[Danchat]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Culpepper, Jenkins, Matthews, Prielipp, Lee, Morris, Adams, Gomez, Funderburk, Clemens, Keaschall, Kreidler and Martin are all pre-arbitration players. That’s half the roster. They’re all playing. 

Rodriguez deserves a callup and Larnach should be benched. Beyond that I don’t see any moves that are necessary. Alan Roden deserves another chance but he would just take playing time away from Rodriguez, Jenkins or Keaschall. Is everyone super angry they haven’t brought back Eric Orze?

Roden could easily play over Bell, Raya should be pitching in the majors and Rogers is incredibly easy to DFA. 

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

He’s been okay lately, he was awful in July. They would have room for him if they weren’t carrying six starting pitchers.

There's room for him, just simply DFA Rogers who has a 1.6 WHIP and is not going to be back next year. Or even option Adams. 6 starters has nothing to do with it.

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, HarmonK03 said:

And in three years Falvey couldn't come up with a plan to address the reduced spending.  It is not all about money.

The OWNERSHIP approved a $33M/yr SS and the next year (after increasing salaries annually, for a decade 5-10%/year) reduced payroll from $154 to $135 …….12.5% decrease (after signing Correa!) ………. then they reduced payroll in ‘25 to $125M - 19% less than ‘23 ……… in ‘26 the payroll is $106M - 32% reduction from ‘23. With 4% annual (modest!) increases from ‘23 the Payroll for ‘27 would be $180M for the season……..fans “are hoping they will spend $120M…..”

I don’t get the disassociation between the slashes in “payroll approach” & the lack of talent/depth to be highly competitive - I guess I’m clueless.

[HarmonK03]

22 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

It’s a Sh….boatload about money!! Dodgers are spending $360 with $60 deferred……. Braves - Phillies - Cubs - Yankees - Red Sox ………  the Padres cut back to $220M for ‘26 …….money has little to do with year over year success though…… come on!

I understand TV deals & 2-3X market size relative to TWINS…….. but cutting over a 1/3 of player salaries in 3 years is B.S.

There are 2 consistent low spending outliers in the game …… Tampa & Milwaukee……… Marlins make a 2 month splash one in a while.

Again, if it were 2032 and the TWINS hadn’t spent any money on payroll for the players since ‘23, then there would be room to bitch ……….. there’s been no plan! Nobody told Falvey when he extended Correa that the budget in ‘24 was going to be $135M & $125M in ‘25 & then $106M in ‘26 - do you agree with that???? ……….. was there a plan to increase roster spending 5-10% a year for a decade and then cut it by 35% over the following 3 years? The FO is plugging holes in a dam that’s been shot up by the Pohlad’s ineffectiveness as owners!

I've said this before, I didn't agree with the way they cut payroll.  But Falvey was not a low level employee.  He had to know some of the business headwinds they might be facing,  He seemed to always seem to want that big contract just like he did with Donaldson.  This is not the way the Twins had ever operated, so he took a gamble and tried to go big rather than operate within the constraints of the market and historical operating practices and he lost.  

It might have worked if he could have developed players better to fit in around Correa but he didn't.  

And I noticed, you conveniently didn't mention Cleveland who has operated with limited resources and act accordingly.  It's easy to blame ownership, but I look at the people making the day to day decisions and Falvey failed this organization.

[JD-TWINS]

28 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

I've said this before, I didn't agree with the way they cut payroll.  But Falvey was not a low level employee.  He had to know some of the business headwinds they might be facing,  He seemed to always seem to want that big contract just like he did with Donaldson.  This is not the way the Twins had ever operated, so he took a gamble and tried to go big rather than operate within the constraints of the market and historical operating practices and he lost.  

It might have worked if he could have developed players better to fit in around Correa but he didn't.  

And I noticed, you conveniently didn't mention Cleveland who has operated with limited resources and act accordingly.  It's easy to blame ownership, but I look at the people making the day to day decisions and Falvey failed this organization.

However, I did conveniently mention “historical operating practices” regarding payroll totals! They INCREASED payroll year over year, consistently. Period.

Sure Cleveland, for the past 10 plus years have not spent a bunch of $$. They do it well!! My point is not that it’s impossible to spend less & be successful - my point is you need a PLAN as an organization. In none of the “……3 successful organizations that are thrifty” did ownership drop spending 12%-19%-32% from a baseline amount, 3 years prior.

Pirates - Reds - Seattle - White Sox - K.C. etc. are also teams I didn’t mention that would/could be a hell of a lot better, year to year, if they spent $$ at a higher rate…….. Reds sign Hunter Green ……hurt a bunch (just like Pablo & Byron) …… they paid Eugenio Suarez “off the scrap heap” & he is not good - they signed Lowe for 1st base platoon for low$ - with OK success…… everyone is “trying to be smart, within a budget”. Sometimes it works but often it doesn’t - not just a Derek Falvey issue……….Is it the Pirates GM’s problem Paul Skenes got knocked around for 3 months? You sign guys to live up to their baseball cards and often it just doesn’t happen - players play!

[JD-TWINS]

46 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

I've said this before, I didn't agree with the way they cut payroll.  But Falvey was not a low level employee.  He had to know some of the business headwinds they might be facing,  He seemed to always seem to want that big contract just like he did with Donaldson.  This is not the way the Twins had ever operated, so he took a gamble and tried to go big rather than operate within the constraints of the market and historical operating practices and he lost.  

It might have worked if he could have developed players better to fit in around Correa but he didn't.  

And I noticed, you conveniently didn't mention Cleveland who has operated with limited resources and act accordingly.  It's easy to blame ownership, but I look at the people making the day to day decisions and Falvey failed this organization.

2016 Indians did well with a modest payroll, getting to the World Series.

1997 Indians did well with a roster littered with high paid players, getting to the World Series.

[1985Fan]

58 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

However, I did conveniently mention “historical operating practices” regarding payroll totals! They INCREASED payroll year over year, consistently. Period.

Sure Cleveland, for the past 10 plus years have not spent a bunch of $$. They do it well!! My point is not that it’s impossible to spend less & be successful - my point is you need a PLAN as an organization. In none of the “……3 successful organizations that are thrifty” did ownership drop spending 12%-19%-32% from a baseline amount, 3 years prior.

Pirates - Reds - Seattle - White Sox - K.C. etc. are also teams I didn’t mention that would/could be a hell of a lot better, year to year, if they spent $$ at a higher rate…….. Reds sign Hunter Green ……hurt a bunch (just like Pablo & Byron) …… they paid Eugenio Suarez “off the scrap heap” & he is not good - they signed Lowe for 1st base platoon for low$ - with OK success…… everyone is “trying to be smart, within a budget”. Sometimes it works but often it doesn’t - not just a Derek Falvey issue……….Is it the Pirates GM’s problem Paul Skenes got knocked around for 3 months? You sign guys to live up to their baseball cards and often it just doesn’t happen - players play!

The Derek Falvey disaster roster that he left behind is full of players he drafted and bet on. You can’t ignore the reality that the Twins lineup today is basically all Falvey high draft picks that have either failed, or haven’t developed as expected. Larnach, Lewis, and Wallner were key parts of the plan he had for 2026 and have failed spectacularly. 
Thats three Falvey first round draft picks that doomed this season and set the franchise back. They can’t be traded for anything meaningful and it will take a while to recover. A modest increase in payroll wouldn’t have made up for the big misses in this lineup and I wouldn’t expect the Twins to start spending at the level of the Dodgers or Mets (how did that turn out?). 
It’s going to take a while to clean up his mess.