Cubs 6, Twins 2: Kody Clemens Can't Do It All as Minnesota Drops Series Even

[Bangkok Twins Fan]

13 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

Shelty keeps mentioning Montgomery. They were facing Boyd. Maybe they had the wrong scouting report.

Tell them all, Tiny Montgomery says 'Hello.'

[HarmonK03]

4 hours ago, Jacksson said:

Well, so much for .500.  Shelton should fine both Bell & Lee.

So you would fine one guy for hustling and one for jogging, that is a great message to send to the team.

[Nshore]

When they picked up Cody Clemens I knew he would end up being a good all around defender and a productive middle of the order hitter - said no one.  That's one of the amazing things about baseball.  Full of surprises.

[DJL44]

13 hours ago, HarmonK03 said:

It sounds like Shelty is blaming Lee for the base running cluster.  Typical for this organization, the young player gets the blame and the vet gets the cover.

Bell rounded third too far, but a mistake means he can score. Lee rounded first base too far and the base ahead of him was occupied. 

[HarmonK03]

1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

Bell rounded third too far, but a mistake means he can score. Lee rounded first base too far and the base ahead of him was occupied. 

Bell was sitting basically on 2B, he wasn't halfway, that is where the mistake began.  Caratini caught up to him, then he jogged to third and then decided to turn it on.  Yes maybe Lee should have seen where Caratini was but most runners would have done the same thing he did in that situation.

[Nshore]

Regarding the base running gaffes - they're 4 runs down in the 9th inning - so why are they even thinking of taking chances - especially thunderfoot Bell?  Baseball and baseball strategy is ALL these guys do for a living.  Sometimes it's hard to believe that.

[DJL44]

1 minute ago, HarmonK03 said:

Bell was sitting basically on 2B, he wasn't halfway, that is where the mistake began.  Caratini caught up to him, then he jogged to third and then decided to turn it on.  Yes maybe Lee should have seen where Caratini was but most runners would have done the same thing he did in that situation.

Bell sat on 2B because there was a chance the ball would get caught. In baseball jargon they call that “tagging up”. He took too big of a turn at 3B and got burned for it.

Most baseunners do not try to run with their head down to an occupied base ahead of them. That’s just dumb. Lee had plenty of time to get back to first base when they ran Bell down.

[HarmonK03]

3 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Bell sat on 2B because there was a chance the ball would get caught. In baseball jargon they call that “tagging up”. He took too big of a turn at 3B and got burned for it.

Most baseunners do not try to run with their head down to an occupied base ahead of them. That’s just dumb. Lee had plenty of time to get back to first base when they ran Bell down.

You tag up when there is a reasonable chance of the ball being caught, there was a 50/50 chance of that ball being caught.  But I get it, the vets do no wrong and the younger players are always the ones making the mistakes.

[Old Twins Hat]

11 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Bell sat on 2B because there was a chance the ball would get caught. In baseball jargon they call that “tagging up”. He took too big of a turn at 3B and got burned for it.

Most baseunners do not try to run with their head down to an occupied base ahead of them. That’s just dumb. Lee had plenty of time to get back to first base when they ran Bell down.

Bell did say he thought he needed to "tag up" potentially.  Hey, team is down four runs in the 9th inning.  If Armstrong makes a diving catch in the gap, who cares about tagging up?  Just get back to 2nd in that case.  

For the Cubs, the ball is rolling loose in the outfield, any thought of getting two outs at that point would have been non-sensical.  

Glad I missed that whole episode.

[DJL44]

8 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

You tag up when there is a reasonable chance of the ball being caught, there was a 50/50 chance of that ball being caught.  But I get it, the vets do no wrong and the younger players are always the ones making the mistakes.

50/50 is a reasonable chance the ball gets caught. Bell made a mistake rounding third. He should have played station to station baseball and been content with third base. He forgot he was Josh Bell for a minute.

Lee needs to look at where the other base runners are and not try to run into them.

[Linus]

This is what drives me nuts about the Twins baserunning. If you are down 4 runs you need a big inning so there is no point in either Bell or Lee taking any chances because two more guys behind them still have to score. There are times to be aggressive and times to play it safe which seems to be lost on most of the Twins players. I partly blame the Twins “oh we are going to be aggressive on the bases philosophy” because they have a bunch of guys that have no clue. Lee has made a crap ton of outs on the bases in the last several weeks. What boggles my mind is this is Legion ball levels of sophistication. 

[HarmonK03]

3 minutes ago, Linus said:

This is what drives me nuts about the Twins baserunning. If you are down 4 runs you need a big inning so there is no point in either Bell or Lee taking any chances because two more guys behind them still have to score. There are times to be aggressive and times to play it safe which seems to be lost on most of the Twins players. I partly blame the Twins “oh we are going to be aggressive on the bases philosophy” because they have a bunch of guys that have no clue. Lee has made a crap ton of outs on the bases in the last several weeks. What boggles my mind is this is Legion ball levels of sophistication. 

A ball hit into the gap and you want him to jog.  Then if there would have been a play on him at second he would have been roasted for not hustling.

[Linus]

17 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

A ball hit into the gap and you want him to jog.  Then if there would have been a play on him at second he would have been roasted for not hustling.

No not at all what I said but nice try. 

[Jeff K]

14 hours ago, mrmpls said:

Shelty ,  why did Bell not get a pinch runner when on 1st or 2nd ?  there were options and it was Last call

That is an excellent question.

[h2oface]

“Josh Bell led off with an infield single against Jordan Webb. Victor Caratini singled to put two on with nobody out. Brooks Lee then doubled into the gap, but an inexplicably horrible base-running decision from Bell led to two subsequent pickles, with Bell and Lee both getting tagged out on the bases. A possible bases-loaded, no-outs situation turned into one on, two outs, and that was that. The Twins are now back to one game back under .500 after spending a glorious 12 hours there The Twins are now back to one game back under .500 after spending a glorious 12 hours there” 

Even the writer wants it both ways. He is giving Lee a double but ideally ending the play with the bases loaded and no outs. Lee cannot end up on second for that to happen. If PCA catches that sinking liner, Caratini has a good chance of getting doubled off at first, as he was basically all the way to second already. Whatever happened at third with the coach’s interaction with Bell is separate from Lee assuming second base would be open. All together the play became a clown show. The trailing runner has to be aware of the path ahead. The lead runner can’t go full out until the ball is caught or not. In the end, another group effort Clown Show to end a game. The way that play developed, there was a lot of instantaneous decisions to be made, and all involved had to keep their circle of awareness about them as a unified team. Adding base runners and not making outs was the most important strategy on this play. More important than scoring, on this play. Scoring 4 or 5 in the ninth was still a highly unlikely event, as we all know how well these Twins do with the bases loaded and no outs. It would have been fun to find out, though, with the tying run that has already homered twice coming to the plate with no outs. 
 

Also would have been nice if the Twins would’ve had some offense other than Kody and Bradley would have pitched better, too. 
 

[Wedman13]

6 hours ago, HarmonK03 said:

You tag up when there is a reasonable chance of the ball being caught, there was a 50/50 chance of that ball being caught.  But I get it, the vets do no wrong and the younger players are always the ones making the mistakes.

Haha I see where you're going but you stopped.  Love it. :)  I do really appreciate your passion for our team!