The Minnesota Twins Didn’t Tear It All Down, At Least Not Yet

[Rod Carews Birthday]

3 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Was the bullpen actually a strength this year? I keep hearing that it was, but I take a look at the numbers and I'm not convinced. 

Compare the numbers to July 31 to the numbers from July 31 to the end of the season (after the season).  I think we will have a new appreciation of how good the bullpen was.  

[Major League Ready]

38 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

It's fine to be optimistic. 

It's another to say "Rojas will be ready early in 2026."

Rojas has 5 starts above A ball. Five.

Hes never thrown more than 84 innings in a season and has 41.2 so far this season. 

He's not going to be part of the 2026 rotation. How could he be?

You are absolutely right but does it make any difference if it's 6-7 guys or 7-8 guys for 2 spots?

[Rod Carews Birthday]

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

I hear you and that's reasonable.  However, I hear an awful lot of grumbling (understandably) about this organization's failure to build anything more than a fringe playoff team that never makes a deep run.  While I agree there is something to be said for frequency of making the playoffs, I think pretty much everyone wants more.  The question is are we willing to do what it takes to build something more substantial?  Even with Pablo / Ryan / Ober, this was never going to be among the top contenders.  Those three are very  good but they are not elite.  It would take a very good offense and we did not have the horses.  They made an investment in Correa intending for him to contribute significantly to getting over the top.  He is not that player.  Larnach / Wallner are mediocre.  We have zip at 2B and 1B.  I am not sure what we have at 3B.  It was time to shuffle the deck.

I think that the grumbling about failing to build anything more than a fringe playoff team is probably amplified by the board more than it is in reality among the larger group of Twins fans.  Those are some of the loudest people.  I recall living through the 70's and the early 80's when we went into every season without any hope of competing.  In 1977 it took great years by Carew, Bostock, Hisle, and Goltz to even get us to about 84 wins -- which was a big deal at the time (for a 4th place team). It was not a particularly great time to be a Twins fan.  Fan morale was definitely low then as well.   Having a team that is at least competitive gives fans hope that there might be something actually there.  Nobody I know is going to say after next year's 90 loss team, "Yeah, but isn't this great, we sure are set up for 2030!".  

[Parfigliano]

7 hours ago, Nshore said:

It would be interesting to know exactly where the $400 million+ franchise debt came from under the Pohlads.  Is it because the financing of fielding a Major League team in Minnesota truly doesn't work?  Or is it connected somehow to the Pohlads' other business interests?

I say other interests

[Major League Ready]

6 minutes ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

I think that the grumbling about failing to build anything more than a fringe playoff team is probably amplified by the board more than it is in reality among the larger group of Twins fans.  Those are some of the loudest people.  I recall living through the 70's and the early 80's when we went into every season without any hope of competing.  In 1977 it took great years by Carew, Bostock, Hisle, and Goltz to even get us to about 84 wins -- which was a big deal at the time (for a 4th place team). It was not a particularly great time to be a Twins fan.  Fan morale was definitely low then as well.   Having a team that is at least competitive gives fans hope that there might be something actually there.  Nobody I know is going to say after next year's 90 loss team, "Yeah, but isn't this great, we sure are set up for 2030!".  

Alot of truth in this except the 2030 part.  They have a ton of starting pitching that is major league ready.  They also need to completely remake the OF with the exception of Buxton and they have great OF prospects that are ready or will be by next year.  They have Keaschall ready and Culpepper close.  a little thinner in terms of INF options but this is quite atypical for a rebuild to have this many players major league ready.  hey can miss on quite a few and it will take a couple years to completely sort out but this will be a talented young team in 2027.  I should add it will be a lot more athletic team that might actually create some excitement and play some defense.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

The next step that will make any real difference is a team sale.  Until that happens, most of the potential outcomes are negative.  GET THAT TEAM SOLD!!!!! (sorry for yelling). 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

Just now, Major League Ready said:

Alot of truth in this except the 2030 part.  They have a ton of starting pitching that is major league ready.  They also need to completely remake the OF with the exception of Buxton and they have great OF prospects that are ready or will be by next year.  They have Keaschall ready and Culpepper close.  a little thinner in terms of INF options but this is quite atypical for a rebuild to have this many players major league ready.  hey can miss on quite a few and it will take a couple years to completely sort out but this will be a talented young team in 2027.

I admire and respect your optimism.  I hope you are correct.  

You know what would help?  If those other teams would stop trying to win too!

[KirbyDome89]

25 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

How old is Ohl?  How old is Adams?  Looks like we picked up a reliever from KC,  Hatch 30 year old.  This is a painful process.   I expect many more waiver claims of players like Hatch.  

Martin, Julien, Roden, Clemens, potentially Outman are your players that are auditioning for 2026.   Clemens right now has the step up and may be solidifying himself as the future 1st baseman.  You state don't invoke Rookers name with mid 30's relievers.    I am not,  I am comparing the opportunity the 5 have above to figure something out.  In most cases you don't find a player.  Everyone once a while a player like Rooker or Castro finally figures it out and it is a huge addition to the team. You are finding a player or pitcher of the AAAA scrap heap.    

This is a long process,  we have 50 more games.  If you want to be debbie downer be my guest.  You are missing the bigger points to fit your agenda.  My main point on the pitching depth,  more than likely we have 3 open spots available next year as we are only retaining Ober and Lopez,  making the depth more necessary.    I hope we can find a position player,  yes it most likely won't be a player of Rookers ability,  but it will still be good for the team.   If you can't find positivity in that,  you have a long road ahead as a Twins fan.  Its definitely not always rainbows and unicorns.   

This team doesn't need more 31 year old pitchers who flamed out in the high minors. 

Abel and Bradley are in AAA while Jose Urena is spot starting. Apparently there's no room for Outman either? The auditions aren't just to see who can stick on a sure to be crappy 2026 squad. 

I'm a debbie downer because I don't think Travis Adams has looked good at the major league level? C'mon....

I'll say it again concerning depth, if you're chopping/churning through names you don't have actual depth. 

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

Sucking for a couple years is no guarantee you're a "95 win or more team" in 3-4.

If only it were that easy.

Idk how people can forget how bad this team was from 2011 through 2016. It wasn't that long ago....

[USAFChief]

1 minute ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Idk how people can forget how bad this team was from 2011 through 2016. It wasn't that long ago....

But hey, by 2023 that got us a WC series win!

[Mike Sixel]

37 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Luckily for the Twins, the Red Sox fixed Jorge Alcala (or so I've been told repeatedly around here) and he is now available to be brought back. Step 1 of the pen rebuild is just waiting for them to claim! 2026 is back in play, folks! Stop the tear down! We're back!

Much like we were told we should figure out what the Mets do to keep their pitchers healthy......

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

This team doesn't need more 31 year old pitchers who flamed out in the high minors. 

Abel and Bradley are in AAA while Jose Urena is spot starting. Apparently there's no room for Outman either? The auditions aren't just to see who can stick on a sure to be crappy 2026 squad. 

I'm a debbie downer because I don't think Travis Adams has looked good at the major league level? C'mon....

I'll say it again concerning depth, if you're chopping/churning through names you don't have actual depth. 

Outman is awful, and the only reason he won't be DFA at year end is embarrassment. 

[bunsen82]

21 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

This team doesn't need more 31 year old pitchers who flamed out in the high minors. 

 

The depth we had was become of 30+ year old relievers that figured out how to be effective in Stewart and Coloumbe.  Relievers is the one position where players 30+ suddenly can become solid quality relievers.  

[bunsen82]

I wouldn't be surprised at the Twins reclaiming Alcala.  

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

I wouldn't be surprised at the Twins reclaiming Alcala.  

I'd be unhappy.....very unhappy. They can't fix him, we know that. 

[bunsen82]

27 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'd be unhappy.....very unhappy. They can't fix him, we know that. 

Mike he is a known commodity,  he has upside and he has more talent than 4 -5 we have in the bullpen.  If they don't claim him you know they see no hope.  At the very least get him in and dfa later.  AAA needs arms as well.  

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, bunsen82 said:

Mike he is a known commodity,  he has upside and he has more talent than 4 -5 we have in the bullpen.  If they don't claim him you know they see no hope.  At the very least get him in and dfa later.  AAA needs arms as well.  

My fear is that he's mediocre, they keep him for next year because "upside", and he's bad (as he's been here for more than a year, and in Boston now also). At some point, upside is just something never reached (to be clear, I was believer in giving him a chance this year.......but now I'm ready to move on. At some point, you move on in life).

I'm at that point. YMMV, of course. 

[Mike Sixel]

They keep starting Jeffers at DH....evidence they aren't tanking, they haven't picked a lane, and they aren't auditioning guys for next year. Or, they are just bad at that too.....

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I'm a debbie downer because I don't think Travis Adams has looked good at the major league level? C'mon....

You're making longterm assessments on a player that should be given a real audition, all based on a very small sample during a time when the Twins are able to run players out there and not actually be concerned about the Ws and Ls. 

Travis Adams could be the next Louis Varland, in fact the Twins are effectively betting on it. Not Adams, specifically, but on the fact that they can take other failed starters and turn them into useful bullpen arms. In fact, at Adams age, Varland had pitched significantly worse. The incredibly ironic thing is if that Varland trade happened on March 31st in stead of July 31st, everyone here would have loved it. It would have been declared the heist of the century.

[NYCTK]

6 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Mike he is a known commodity,  he has upside and he has more talent than 4 -5 we have in the bullpen.  If they don't claim him you know they see no hope.  At the very least get him in and dfa later.  AAA needs arms as well.  

Yeah, can bring him in and always DFA him, I don't care. But the Twins should try to make sure they are also trying to bring in pitchers with options when possible. Alcala is gonna bounce around the league, much like Tonkin did, because of the fact that he doesn't. 

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

I admire and respect your optimism.  I hope you are correct.  

You know what would help?  If those other teams would stop trying to win too!

Here is what I think gets lost in comparing paths.  Staying the course had a milestone at the end of 2027 that to me was an expiration date.  Ryan / Lopez / Ober / Duran / Jax would all be free agents.  I did not like our odds of getting anything significant done in the playoffs without major improvements in the offense.  Even with new owners, there is no way that was getting done through free agency.  Our only shot would have been to unload our top prospects to bet on that two-year window.

What does the 5-7 year window look like from 28 forward?  The difference in that window would be whatever we traded away to bet on 26-27 plus whatever becomes of all the prospects we just traded for plus whatever we get for Ryan / Lopez / Ober.  The difference in terms of how the team projects for several years after 2027 is night and day.  I understand prospects often fail but the difference in potential is monumentally different.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Here is what I think gets lost in comparing paths.  Staying the course had a milestone at the end of 2027 that to me was an expiration date.  Ryan / Lopez / Ober / Duran / Jax would all be free agents.  I did not like our odds of getting anything significant done in the playoffs without major improvements in the offense.  Even with new owners, there is no way that was getting done through free agency.  Our only shot would have been to unload our top prospects to bet on that two-year window.

What does the 5-7 year window look like from 28 forward?  The difference in that window would be whatever we traded away to bet on 26-27 plus whatever becomes of all the prospects we just traded for plus whatever we get for Ryan / Lopez / Ober.  The difference in terms of how the team projects for several years after 2027 is night and day.  I understand prospects often fail but the difference in potential is monumentally different.

If that's the window, dealing for 25, 26, and 28 year olds made zero sense. IMO, of course. 

[Major League Ready]

14 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

If that's the window, dealing for 25, 26, and 28 year olds made zero sense. IMO, of course. 

I didn't like the Outman deal either.  I thought it made the least sense of any of the deals for the same reasons you have stated in various post.  That said, the relevance of that deal in the big picture is quite small.   We no doubt can debate and grade the various deals, but the wisdom of rebuilding is the bigger issue by far, IMO.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Major League Ready said:

I didn't like the Outman deal either.  I thought it made the least sense of any of the deals for the same reasons you have stated in various post.  That said, the relevance of that deal in the big picture is quite small.   We no doubt can debate and grade the various deals, but the wisdom of rebuilding is the bigger issue by far, IMO.

You know we agree they had to do this stuff, but I don't love the execution all that much. We'll see....

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Outman is awful, and the only reason he won't be DFA at year end is embarrassment. 

I have zero faith that he's anything of value, but stashing him at AAA is more embarrassing than watching him flop with the Twins IMO. 

[KirbyDome89]

54 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

You're making longterm assessments on a player that should be given a real audition, all based on a very small sample during a time when the Twins are able to run players out there and not actually be concerned about the Ws and Ls. 

Travis Adams could be the next Louis Varland, in fact the Twins are effectively betting on it. Not Adams, specifically, but on the fact that they can take other failed starters and turn them into useful bullpen arms. In fact, at Adams age, Varland had pitched significantly worse. The incredibly ironic thing is if that Varland trade happened on March 31st in stead of July 31st, everyone here would have loved it. It would have been declared the heist of the century.

No, I'm saying that I disagree that Adams has "flashed," which was the post I responded to. 

[USAFChief]

3 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

No, I'm saying that I disagree that Adams has "flashed," which was the post I responded to. 

What does "flash" even mean? 

[KirbyDome89]

Just now, USAFChief said:

What does "flash" even mean? 

Some nebulous bull**** that'll get walked back to mean "had one decent game." 

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, bunsen82 said:

The depth we had was become of 30+ year old relievers that figured out how to be effective in Stewart and Coloumbe.  Relievers is the one position where players 30+ suddenly can become solid quality relievers.  

No, the bullpen was built on failed SPs turned RPs within the organization. This team was still trading for, and giving innings to, guys like Dylan Floro and Trevor Richards the last few seasons. 

[Mike Sixel]

34 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I have zero faith that he's anything of value, but stashing him at AAA is more embarrassing than watching him flop with the Twins IMO. 

agreed.