Make it Official! Twins 10, Athletics 2: Ober Gets Complete Game Support

[terrydactyls]

8 hours ago, bean5302 said:

It's so satisfying to see a complete game in the box score. Heck of a game by Ober!

For those pointing to WPA, it's about how a player influences the likelihood of a game being won or lost. The Twins jumped out to a huge lead so no matter how well Ober pitched, it was unlikely to win or lose the game. Ober could have given up 9 runs on the Twins still would have won. Thus, low WPA because the great performance wasn't necessary to win.

I've always wondered what WPA meant.  I thought it was a reference to the Great Depression Works Progress Administration.  The explanation also confirms for me that it's a pretty silly statistic.

[JD-TWINS]

6 hours ago, Mark G said:

As much as I would love to jump on the bandwagon, and I would really love to, I just can't bring myself to get excited about beating up on teams like the A's.  As of today we are 17-2 against the A's, Rockies, White Sox, and Angels.........1-16 against the Yankees, Orioles, Guardians, and Dodgers.  The offense always seems to get well and have great stats against the bottom feeders, but that is expected.  Right now we have a team that is the best of the rest, but not in the top tier.  We will hold our own against the majority of the league, beat up the bottom of the league, and falter against the top tier of the league.  What frustrates me is I can predict too many wins and too many losses before the 1st pitch is thrown.  

I loved the game Ober threw, and it really helped the pen.  And with the day off on Monday, all hands will be on deck this afternoon, and we will take this game handily.  But I am in cruise control until October, when we see the best and find out where we match up.  I am also looking forward to the trade deadline to see how ownership views this team and how much it cares about its fan base.  Hopefully the team will keep the pressure on Joe P. by being within striking distance.  And more games like Bailey's will do just that! 😉

You in know the opponent and who is pitching for the Twins over at least the next week ……let’s see some of those known wins or known losses before the first pitch is thrown so we can all benefit.

7 of the 16 losses (they all count, understood) were prior to April 17. The Team was not hitting as a Team…..obviously, the opponents pitching plays into that. Team wasn’t hitting against anybody. My point is not to shy away from yours, it is to say they are much more of a complete offense at this point.

Right now Paddack & Lopez appear to be the weakest links, and if that’s true the Team is in decent shape going forward.

Kansas City - Boston - Washington - Seattle - Milwaukee are all playoff teams and Twins are  13-6 v. these clubs…..it’s not all bad.

[GNess]

I attended this game. The Twins were really stinging the ball all game. Ober was excellent. I do think Buxton in CF provides confidence to pitchers that he can track down and take away potential hits. But at the plate he continues to struggle with consistency and lapses into being an all or nothing pull hitter.

[ashbury]

15 minutes ago, GNess said:

I attended this game. The Twins were really stinging the ball all game. Ober was excellent. I do think Buxton in CF provides confidence to pitchers that he can track down and take away potential hits. But at the plate he continues to struggle with consistency and lapses into being an all or nothing pull hitter.

I think there was one other TD poster who was there, as was I.  Great day for an enjoyable ballgame!

[bean5302]

9 hours ago, Mark G said:

As much as I would love to jump on the bandwagon, and I would really love to, I just can't bring myself to get excited about beating up on teams like the A's.  As of today we are 17-2 against the A's, Rockies, White Sox, and Angels.........1-16 against the Yankees, Orioles, Guardians, and Dodgers.

I see you conveniently left out the Brewers, Mariners, Red Sox and Royals who are all over .500, legit playoff caliber teams, and the Twins are 10-4 against them. 

6 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

Yikes ... that does put things in perspective. Winning some of these games against teams like the A's is fun, but as you noted we need to be able to win games against these top tier teams too. 

As with any cherry picking, it does give you a perspective. Miss the forest for the trees.

The Twins have been a very up and down team, but the 17-2 (.895) record against any group of teams in MLB is pretty good. The worst team in that group (White Sox) have won 21 games. They're beating somebody... 

What I take away from the Twins' record is this. They're destroying bad teams, beating good teams and struggling against great teams.

[Mark G]

2 hours ago, bean5302 said:

I see you conveniently left out the Brewers, Mariners, Red Sox and Royals who are all over .500, legit playoff caliber teams, and the Twins are 10-4 against them. 

As with any cherry picking, it does give you a perspective. Miss the forest for the trees.

The Twins have been a very up and down team, but the 17-2 (.895) record against any group of teams in MLB is pretty good. The worst team in that group (White Sox) have won 21 games. They're beating somebody... 

What I take away from the Twins' record is this. They're destroying bad teams, beating good teams and struggling against great teams.

Wow.......I kinda think that was my point all along. 🤭

[Mark G]

5 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

You in know the opponent and who is pitching for the Twins over at least the next week ……let’s see some of those known wins or known losses before the first pitch is thrown so we can all benefit.

7 of the 16 losses (they all count, understood) were prior to April 17. The Team was not hitting as a Team…..obviously, the opponents pitching plays into that. Team wasn’t hitting against anybody. My point is not to shy away from yours, it is to say they are much more of a complete offense at this point.

Right now Paddack & Lopez appear to be the weakest links, and if that’s true the Team is in decent shape going forward.

Kansas City - Boston - Washington - Seattle - Milwaukee are all playoff teams and Twins are  13-6 v. these clubs…..it’s not all bad.

Cmon, my point was that when we play the elite teams you know we will probably lose, and when we play the bottom feeders we will very likely win.  The rest of the league is the part that we have to pay attention to. 😏

[laloesch]

On 6/23/2024 at 1:40 AM, bean5302 said:

Radke was a borderline Hall of Famer at the end of his career considering his career was cut way short by injury (retired after playing his age 33 season with a broken shoulder, and he was still better than average). He has the 6th most career WAR while wearing a Minnesota Twins uniform of any player.
Carew = 63.8 (HoF), Killebrew 60.4 (HoF), Mauer 55.2 (HoF), Puckett 51.1 (HoF), Blyleven (HoF), Radke 45.6, Oliva 43.0 (HoF)
Radke is undoubtedly the most underappreciated player in Twins history, and he doesn't get nearly enough credit for his exceptional value on the field, but to go a step further, he also played a critical role in saving the Minnesota Twins from contraction. Ober's a fine #4 guy, but Radke was the best starting pitcher to wear a Twins uniform in the past 30 years not named Johan Santana. Radke was a true ace with 6 seasons over 4.3 WAR, and 3 at 5.8 or higher.
 

Radke was a horse.  He had a few bad seasons, but overall a very solid pitcher.  If the mid to late 90's Twins hadn't been so bad he would have been a much easier pitch (no pun intended) for the Hall of Fame. 

[USAFChief]

On 6/23/2024 at 10:30 AM, JD-TWINS said:

Kansas City - Boston - Washington - Seattle - Milwaukee are all playoff teams...

False.

[Doctor Wu]

On 6/23/2024 at 7:31 PM, Doctor Wu said:

Considering that Buxton is healthy and starting most games, and yet he hasn't had much of an impact on games this season is a big concern for me. He's become the invisible man on this team. 

I gotta laugh: almost every time  after I post a negative comment about Buxton's play he has a great game. Hmm ... maybe I need to do that more often, or rather HE needs to do that more often!

[BsuNemo]

On 6/23/2024 at 12:40 AM, bean5302 said:

Radke was a borderline Hall of Famer at the end of his career considering his career was cut way short by injury (retired after playing his age 33 season with a broken shoulder, and he was still better than average). He has the 6th most career WAR while wearing a Minnesota Twins uniform of any player.
Carew = 63.8 (HoF), Killebrew 60.4 (HoF), Mauer 55.2 (HoF), Puckett 51.1 (HoF), Blyleven (HoF), Radke 45.6, Oliva 43.0 (HoF)
Radke is undoubtedly the most underappreciated player in Twins history, and he doesn't get nearly enough credit for his exceptional value on the field, but to go a step further, he also played a critical role in saving the Minnesota Twins from contraction. Ober's a fine #4 guy, but Radke was the best starting pitcher to wear a Twins uniform in the past 30 years not named Johan Santana. Radke was a true ace with 6 seasons over 4.3 WAR, and 3 at 5.8 or higher.
 

I think Ober can become that if he can stay away from injury. At his best he doesn't blow people away but controls the zone and the game. Radke did the same. I have a special place in my heart for him as he visited my 14 year old self in the hospital as I was going through chemo in the late 90s.

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, BsuNemo said:

I think Ober can become that if he can stay away from injury. At his best he doesn't blow people away but controls the zone and the game. Radke did the same. I have a special place in my heart for him as he visited my 14 year old self in the hospital as I was going through chemo in the late 90s.

I'd be great if it happened, but Ober would need to stay healthy while lowering his ERA / FIP by probably a full point over the next 10 years to get there. Radke had Ober's results, but Radke pitched during the steroid era when guys were hitting 50-70 home runs a year. Side note: Some people complain about Radke giving up home runs, but he was actually far below average in HR rate. Like top 20 of qualified starters good.

Can't imagine how cool of a visit that must have been!

[BsuNemo]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

I'd be great if it happened, but Ober would need to stay healthy while lowering his ERA / FIP by probably a full point over the next 10 years to get there. Radke had Ober's results, but Radke pitched during the steroid era when guys were hitting 50-70 home runs a year. Side note: Some people complain about Radke giving up home runs, but he was actually far below average in HR rate. Like top 20 of qualified starters good.

Can't imagine how cool of a visit that must have been!

As a kid he was my favorite after Morris and Tapani left. Maybe you know, but I wonder how Ober's first couple years compares to young Radke. The thing I liked most about him was he looked like a regular dude and didn't rely on anything special outside of control and a great ability to just get people out.