Vikings Offseason Thread

[Cap'n Piranha]

6 hours ago, Musk21 said:

Vikings just traded picks #42, #188, and a 2025 2nd rounder to HOU for picks #23 and #232.  

I don’t really know what the point of this trade is.  Picks 11 and 23 are not going to get you into the top 5–they might only get you to 8, by which point McCarthy (if that’s the target) might very well be gone.  If indeed the Vikings are trying to get up, they’ll probably still need to give up a first rounder next year, meaning they would have one first and zero second picks for the next two years.  Gonna be hard to build infrastructure unless there are moves on the horizon to amass more capital (like a trade of Jefferson or Darrisaw).

[nicksaviking]

46 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Never mind. 130 million cap hit to trade Herbert....

Well then I blame Florio for getting my hopes up.

Maye better be the target then.

[AlwaysinModeration]

21 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Teams don't usually trade picks for picks this early, mostly because if there's a guy they wanted at 23, it's too early to tell if he'll be there. Have to think they plan on moving up, and maybe before the draft starts.

Although Florio did suggest the Vikings could use the picks to trade for Justin Herbert allowing Harbaugh to draft his guy McCarthy. Florio said it's a long shot, but I don't think it's that crazy of an idea. Herbert would probably be awesome in the Vikings offense, though then they wouldn't get that rookie contract to aid them. They could probably find a way to pay Jefferson still by rearranging some money, but it would be tight.

I had that same thought (Vikes trading for Herbert and Harbaugh drafting JJ), but didn’t post it because I thought it was crazy.  

[Danchat]

Herbert and Jefferson are not getting traded. Period. People are overreacting to the Chargers shedding cap and the Vikings moving on from Cousins and suddenly think they will be moved when there is no evidence to think so. 

Moving up to #5 with the Chargers could be realistic since they would much rather let the Vikings jump up there to take a QB (McCarthy?) rather than trading with division rivals Vegas and Denver, who are both rumored to be moving up. The big wildcard is NYG, who have reportedly want to find a successor to Daniel Jones ASAP.

[Mike Sixel]

14 minutes ago, Danchat said:

Herbert and Jefferson are not getting traded. Period. People are overreacting to the Chargers shedding cap and the Vikings moving on from Cousins and suddenly think they will be moved when there is no evidence to think so. 

Moving up to #5 with the Chargers could be realistic since they would much rather let the Vikings jump up there to take a QB (McCarthy?) rather than trading with division rivals Vegas and Denver, who are both rumored to be moving up. The big wildcard is NYG, who have reportedly want to find a successor to Daniel Jones ASAP.

Or, there are rumors harbaugh wants to start over and to deal Herbert for a haul... And it isn't stupidity from posters here. But those rumors are insane, because of the cap hit they'd take. 

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Or, there are rumors harbaugh wants to start over and to deal Herbert for a haul... And it isn't stupidity from posters here. But those rumors are insane, because of the cap hit they'd take. 

Yeah, Harbaugh does what Harbaugh wants. If he wanted McCarthy instead, the only thing that would stop him is an impossible contract, not the GM.
 

Or sanity.

[AlwaysinModeration]

Fields to the Steelers for a 6th which turns into a 4th if he plays 51%.

Now that he’s out of the division, would the Vikings consider trading for him for a 3rd?

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, AlwaysinModeration said:

Fields to the Steelers for a 6th which turns into a 4th if he plays 51%.

Now that he’s out of the division, would the Vikings consider trading for him for a 3rd?

Why would they give up a 3rd when he just went for a 6th? Clearly no other team thinks he is a viable starter, why would the Vikings?

[gunnarthor]

Vikings lose Osborn to NE but apparently that means we will get a 3rd round pick under the NFL's comp pick rules in 2025. 

Best of luck to KJ. He seemed like a nice person.

[Mike Sixel]

53 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Vikings lose Osborn to NE but apparently that means we will get a 3rd round pick under the NFL's comp pick rules in 2025. 

Best of luck to KJ. He seemed like a nice person.

Well, those picks come after round three, so it's stupid the NFL calls them third round picks. Ridiculous rumor has it NE did that as part of the deal to get Minnesota to include their real third round pick next year in the deal to trade up this year. 

[Parfigliano]

43 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Well, those picks come after round three, so it's stupid the NFL calls them third round picks. Ridiculous rumor has it NE did that as part of the deal to get Minnesota to include their real third round pick next year in the deal to trade up this year. 

So Round 3A pick.

[Mike Sixel]

Of the non Williams QBs, what order do you prefer them?

Having never seen Maye or Daniels....

Daniels, Maye, then I'm unsure,

[Vanimal46]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Of the non Williams QBs, what order do you prefer them?

Having never seen Maye or Daniels....

Daniels, Maye, then I'm unsure,

These ranking are based off my perception of the QB fitting into the existing KOC offense…

Maye - McCarthy - Penix - Daniels - Nix

I think KOC above all else wants a pocket passer with a really strong arm for the intermediate and deep passes. Daniels is very talented but appears to be more of a Lamar Jackson type that will require a shift in offensive philosophy. 

[nicksaviking]

54 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

These ranking are based off my perception of the QB fitting into the existing KOC offense…

Maye - McCarthy - Penix - Daniels - Nix

I think KOC above all else wants a pocket passer with a really strong arm for the intermediate and deep passes. Daniels is very talented but appears to be more of a Lamar Jackson type that will require a shift in offensive philosophy. 

I agree that KOC probably wants a pocket passer, but I'd like someone who can operate out of the pocket though, which I still think is different than the Jackson/Hurts model. I absolutely do not want another statue back there, especially not with this interior OL.

So my order would be Maye, Daniels, McCarthy, Nix ------------------> Penix. I think I like Rattler more than Penix. I understand I'm an outlier on this one.

[Mike Sixel]

29 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I agree that KOC probably wants a pocket passer, but I'd like someone who can operate out of the pocket though, which I still think is different than the Jackson/Hurts model. I absolutely do not want another statue back there, especially not with this interior OL.

So my order would be Maye, Daniels, McCarthy, Nix ------------------> Penix. I think I like Rattler more than Penix. I understand I'm an outlier on this one.

Penix has one of the lowest percentages of sacked/pressured rates in years. He was pressured an insane amount of times in his last two years......just sayin'. 

[gunnarthor]

I don't think Washington will pass on Daniels, lots of smoke that he's their guy. NE is starting to talk about they will only take a QB so I suspect that's to get the Vikings to increase their offer. I think I want Maye than McCarthy but I'm not really interested in using a first on Nix, Penix, etc. I know some are a bit worried about McCarthy but I think he'd be the type of QB KOC can work with. 

If we can't trade up, there are a lot of rumors now that McCarthy won't get to 11 so in that worst case scenario for the Vikings, DT/shut-down CB, I suppose. 

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I don't think Washington will pass on Daniels, lots of smoke that he's their guy. NE is starting to talk about they will only take a QB so I suspect that's to get the Vikings to increase their offer. I think I want Maye than McCarthy but I'm not really interested in using a first on Nix, Penix, etc. I know some are a bit worried about McCarthy but I think he'd be the type of QB KOC can work with. 

If we can't trade up, there are a lot of rumors now that McCarthy won't get to 11 so in that worst case scenario for the Vikings, DT/shut-down CB, I suppose. 

If they can't trade up, I'd deal down to get another 2nd or 3rd. 23 is a sweet spot for the CB class. I'd go DL, CB most likely, though I'd really like the center from Oregon State and then to deal Sullivan for a 4th/5th or 3rd next year, so I'd be tempted to do that at 23 even though I think you can get him 15 picks later.......I'd consider one of the OTs at 11, and moving them to OG, but I'm not sure I'd do that. If one of the top DTs is there at 11, I do that for sure, given the current room. 

But, I suspect they deal up and draft QB and don't pick again until the 4th round.

[AlwaysinModeration]

20 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Penix has one of the lowest percentages of sacked/pressured rates in years. He was pressured an insane amount of times in his last two years......just sayin'. 

Sounds good to me, I’d like a QB who doesn’t get sacked with the 23rd overall pick.  He’s thrown 1100 passes in the past two years, 65% completion.  Are we sure Penix isn’t better than Maye or Daniels?

[nicksaviking]

Vikings sign CB Shaq Griffin.

Most of the free agents they've signed aren't terribly exciting, and most of them are short term, but I'll give them credit, they seemed to have filled most of their holes.

Really makes it seem like just about all of this year's picks are expendable to move up as necessary for the glaringly obvious missing piece.

[Parfigliano]

On 3/18/2024 at 10:15 AM, Vanimal46 said:

These ranking are based off my perception of the QB fitting into the existing KOC offense…

Maye - McCarthy - Penix - Daniels - Nix

I think KOC above all else wants a pocket passer with a really strong arm for the intermediate and deep passes. Daniels is very talented but appears to be more of a Lamar Jackson type that will require a shift in offensive philosophy. 

Judging by adjustments made/not made between halfs in games last year the Vikings dont shift philosophy.  O or D.

[nicksaviking]

3 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

Judging by adjustments made/not made between halfs in games last year the Vikings dont shift philosophy.  O or D.

Disagree. They seemed to shift to an extremely conservative offense at the ends of games once they crossed midfield.

To be clear, that was not a glowing endorsement.

[Mike Sixel]

4 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Vikings sign CB Shaq Griffin.

Most of the free agents they've signed aren't terribly exciting, and most of them are short term, but I'll give them credit, they seemed to have filled most of their holes.

Really makes it seem like just about all of this year's picks are expendable to move up as necessary for the glaringly obvious missing piece.

Agreed. They've checked the boxes, other than OG...... I'm surprised at that. The big holes are QB, IOL, and DT. They might fill two of those in the draft. If they do, I'll be really impressed with this reset. Assuming they get the right QB. 

[nicksaviking]

10 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Agreed. They've checked the boxes, other than OG...... I'm surprised at that. The big holes are QB, IOL, and DT. They might fill two of those in the draft. If they do, I'll be really impressed with this reset. Assuming they get the right QB. 

If they get Maye, or even McCarthy, I'll probably have to reconsider my eye-rolls at this 'competitive rebuild' stuff. They probably won't be great next year, but they should be watchable, and if they get the rookie QB, they should be on the upswing, not downswing.

[nicksaviking]

Signed two more LBs now. Jihad Ward and Kamu Grugier-Hill. Neither were full time starters, but both were on the field regularly. 

This obviously isn't the Jets or Eagles defense, but the Vikings seem to be stocking it with lots of capable players so like those teams I assume they'll be rotating guys in and out way more than last year. Should keep the defense fresh for the 4th Q.

[Mike Sixel]

6 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Signed two more LBs now. Jihad Ward and Kamu Grugier-Hill. Neither were full time starters, but both were on the field regularly. 

This obviously isn't the Jets or Eagles defense, but the Vikings seem to be stocking it with lots of capable players so like those teams I assume they'll be rotating guys in and out way more than last year. Should keep the defense fresh for the 4th Q.

So many linebackers!

[gunnarthor]

17 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Signed two more LBs now. Jihad Ward and Kamu Grugier-Hill. Neither were full time starters, but both were on the field regularly. 

This obviously isn't the Jets or Eagles defense, but the Vikings seem to be stocking it with lots of capable players so like those teams I assume they'll be rotating guys in and out way more than last year. Should keep the defense fresh for the 4th Q.

Agreed, but you also need depth because of injuries. Really reinforces my belief that the Vikings are looking for talent as well as for specific guys who will fit their defensive scheme. They seem to have a plan, at least. 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, gunnarthor said:

Agreed, but you also need depth because of injuries. Really reinforces my belief that the Vikings are looking for talent as well as for specific guys who will fit their defensive scheme. They seem to have a plan, at least. 

Yeah, last year Patrick Jones was the number 5 LB (including Hunter and Wonnum) and played only 40% of the defensive snaps. Troy Dye was number 6 and played only 11%. Now two league-wide know guys, Ward and Grugier-Hill are  numbers 5 and 6, both guys are used to playing more than Jones and Dye. I doubt they both sign here on the same day unless the Vikings say they'll be in the rotation. Jones and Asamoha are still here too. With fresh guys, it really seems like it's going to be blitz city around here next season. Should be fun.

[nicksaviking]

Most seem to think the Vikings will trade up for McCarthy, not Maye. While I want Maye, McCarthy is growing on me. He still doesn't seem to have the 'gunslinger' mentality that I want, but most of the knocks on him seem to be related to the Harbaugh suppressed system he was in. If these QBs are smart enough, have the talent and go to a competent coaching staff, they'll get coached out of their college system in short order.

[Cap'n Piranha]

The NFL today dramatically changed kickoffs for 2024 (the current rules will automatically reinstate for 2025 unless this or some other change is made permanent.  The new rules state:

• The kicker will line up at his own 35 yard line
• All other kicking team players will line up at the opponents 40 yard line
• At least 9 receiving team players must be between their own 30 and 35 yard line
• No more than 2 receiving team players can line up anywhere between the goal line and their own 20 yard line
• Only the kicker and the 1 to 2 players in the "landing zone" can move until the kicked ball hits the ground or a player in the "landing zone"
• All onside attempts must be announced in advance, and the current onside rules will then apply
• No fair catches are allowed, and touchbacks are placed at the 30

For me, there are some confusing things here--are receiving team players who line up at the 30 allowed to start moving forward before the ball lands/is caught, so long as they don't cross the 35, or are they required to freeze the moment the ball is struck?  If the ball hits a player on the receiving team who is not in the landing zone, is it an automatic touchback, or is that player allowed to attempt to advance?  If allowed to advance, wouldn't the new tactic to be to kick the ball at one of those players, and try to have one of your guys pop him as hard as possible to try and force a fumble?

Personally, I think a much better way to do this would be to eliminate the kickoff entirely, and instead state that after a team scores (or to start a half/overtime) the kicking team gets a 4th and 15 from their own 35 yard line.  They can attempt to  run a straight play to pick up the 15 yards, they can go ahead and punt (a 40 yard net would give the other team the ball at their own 25), or they can run a fake punt.  This achieves the aim of eliminating the kickoff (thereby reducing injuries), but leaves in place a stronger mechanism for keeping the ball after a score.

[gunnarthor]

4 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

The NFL today dramatically changed kickoffs for 2024 (the current rules will automatically reinstate for 2025 unless this or some other change is made permanent.  The new rules state:

• The kicker will line up at his own 35 yard line
• All other kicking team players will line up at the opponents 40 yard line
• At least 9 receiving team players must be between their own 30 and 35 yard line
• No more than 2 receiving team players can line up anywhere between the goal line and their own 20 yard line
• Only the kicker and the 1 to 2 players in the "landing zone" can move until the kicked ball hits the ground or a player in the "landing zone"
• All onside attempts must be announced in advance, and the current onside rules will then apply
• No fair catches are allowed, and touchbacks are placed at the 30

For me, there are some confusing things here--are receiving team players who line up at the 30 allowed to start moving forward before the ball lands/is caught, so long as they don't cross the 35, or are they required to freeze the moment the ball is struck?  If the ball hits a player on the receiving team who is not in the landing zone, is it an automatic touchback, or is that player allowed to attempt to advance?  If allowed to advance, wouldn't the new tactic to be to kick the ball at one of those players, and try to have one of your guys pop him as hard as possible to try and force a fumble?

Personally, I think a much better way to do this would be to eliminate the kickoff entirely, and instead state that after a team scores (or to start a half/overtime) the kicking team gets a 4th and 15 from their own 35 yard line.  They can attempt to  run a straight play to pick up the 15 yards, they can go ahead and punt (a 40 yard net would give the other team the ball at their own 25), or they can run a fake punt.  This achieves the aim of eliminating the kickoff (thereby reducing injuries), but leaves in place a stronger mechanism for keeping the ball after a score.

I'm curious how this will look in reality so let's see.