Vikings Offseason Thread

[TheLeviathan]

I think we see a really good defensive effort that highlights that the team is a couple better defensive linemen away from being elite and the offense is fine....but the schedule makes us a 6-11 type of team.

The style Flores plays means we need much better players than Tillery to play up front.  Or a better nose so that Phillips can slide over.  That position group just isn't good.

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

I think we see a really good defensive effort that highlights that the team is a couple better defensive linemen away from being elite and the offense is fine....but the schedule makes us a 6-11 type of team.

The style Flores plays means we need much better players than Tillery to play up front.  Or a better nose so that Phillips can slide over.  That position group just isn't good.

I agree. 

[Mike Sixel]

Addison with a significant ankle sprain.... Will they score at all?

They better run block well....

[gunnarthor]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Addison with a significant ankle sprain.... Will they score at all?

They better run block well....

Would be nice if any suspension would kick in about now.

[Mike Sixel]

11 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Would be nice if any suspension would kick in about now.

My thoughts

[nicksaviking]

On 8/21/2024 at 10:10 AM, TheLeviathan said:

I think we see a really good defensive effort that highlights that the team is a couple better defensive linemen away from being elite and the offense is fine....but the schedule makes us a 6-11 type of team.

The style Flores plays means we need much better players than Tillery to play up front.  Or a better nose so that Phillips can slide over.  That position group just isn't good.

I agree, but the problem is that the improved defense is due to free agency, not drafting and developing. The guys they brought in are a 1-2 year fix, so unless they're planning on bringing in 5-6 new defense starters every year, the peak defense probably won't match up with when this offense peaks.

[nicksaviking]

18 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

Would be nice if any suspension would kick in about now.

Court date isn't until November. Then the inevitable appeal. He probably won't be suspended until 2025 when we're all excited to see McCarthy again.

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Court date isn't until November. Then the inevitable appeal. He probably won't be suspended until 2025 when we're all excited to see McCarthy again.

Sigh. Just enter a plea deal ....

[TheLeviathan]

53 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I agree, but the problem is that the improved defense is due to free agency, not drafting and developing. The guys they brought in are a 1-2 year fix, so unless they're planning on bringing in 5-6 new defense starters every year, the peak defense probably won't match up with when this offense peaks.

Agreed, we need to see more returns than just Pace.  That first draft was a disaster.

[nicksaviking]

19 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Agreed, we need to see more returns than just Pace.  That first draft was a disaster.

Yeah, and Pace wasn't drafted, he signed as a UDFA because this team CAN'T draft defensive players and Minnesota was clearly the best shot for him to make a roster.

[Mike Sixel]

I like the 7th round pick this year.....from what I read and highlights. 

In fairness, I think the CB that was killed by a drunk driver was going to be a starter.....not the FO fault there. 

And, pretty likely their 2nd pick this year is a defensive star, IMO. 

so that should have been 2 this year, easy.

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

I like the 7th round pick this year.....from what I read and highlights. 

In fairness, I think the CB that was killed by a drunk driver was going to be a starter.....not the FO fault there. 

And, pretty likely their 2nd pick this year is a defensive star, IMO. 

so that should have been 2 this year, easy.

They have some intriguing talent for sure.  But nick's right that they haven't drafted or developed much of anything other than Pace.  It might be better that we keep adding elite talents by trading picks.

[Mike Sixel]

12 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

They have some intriguing talent for sure.  But nick's right that they haven't drafted or developed much of anything other than Pace.  It might be better that we keep adding elite talents by trading picks.

On the plus side, they have a ton of cap space in future years, and a "free" QB for the next 4+ years. 

[Mike Sixel]

21 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

They have some intriguing talent for sure.  But nick's right that they haven't drafted or developed much of anything other than Pace.  It might be better that we keep adding elite talents by trading picks.

It's been 2 drafts? They had one awful one, last year was not ideal for the D, and that's it. How's the offense and special teams? It was looking like Pace and two guys from this year for sure.....now it is one for sure from this year. The rolled the dice on a guy that was good in college until he got hurt, didn't work. Cine was clearly a mistake, that whole draft was literally his first ever in charge. I guess I'm saying it's been all of two drafts plus this last one......and they've had one guy get killed, and another break his leg immediately, and two more just never get healthy. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 8/21/2024 at 8:10 AM, TheLeviathan said:

I think we see a really good defensive effort that highlights that the team is a couple better defensive linemen away from being elite and the offense is fine....but the schedule makes us a 6-11 type of team.

The style Flores plays means we need much better players than Tillery to play up front.  Or a better nose so that Phillips can slide over.  That position group just isn't good.

If the D Line isn't good, the total D won't be either.  Not saying the total D will be bad, just that it's ceiling becomes average.  Teams going against a bad D-Line will just run downhill until Flores is obligated to pack the box, then they'll go over the top (by the way, I'm not super sold on any of our corners holding up in man-to-man for an entire game, much less an entire season).

[TheLeviathan]

4 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

It's been 2 drafts? They had one awful one, last year was not ideal for the D, and that's it. How's the offense and special teams? It was looking like Pace and two guys from this year for sure.....now it is one for sure from this year. The rolled the dice on a guy that was good in college until he got hurt, didn't work. Cine was clearly a mistake, that whole draft was literally his first ever in charge. I guess I'm saying it's been all of two drafts plus this last one......and they've had one guy get killed, and another break his leg immediately, and two more just never get healthy. 

We'll see?  I mean, who has this front office developed?  They traded for Hockenson and the results so far are mixed.  Ingram is mixed.  The rest of the o-line was already in place.  Ditto Jefferson.  They have largely dropped the ball at RB.  Addison looks like a talent but there are some character challenges that make that situation murky.  The special teams have been...ok?  Sounds like this kicker is the real deal but I'm not sure I can put much on that either.  Every effective defensive player preceded them except Phillips.

I'm not trying to drum this front office out.  I think they're working under a "compete" mandate from ownership and doing their best to reset the bad contract situation they had, add talent for the future, and rebuild on the fly.  I think they've done some interesting things with that weird mandate, but so far I can't argue they've developed and drafted well.   These next two years are huge...we need to start seeing an ability to get young players and make them better.

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

If the D Line isn't good, the total D won't be either.  Not saying the total D will be bad, just that it's ceiling becomes average.  Teams going against a bad D-Line will just run downhill until Flores is obligated to pack the box, then they'll go over the top (by the way, I'm not super sold on any of our corners holding up in man-to-man for an entire game, much less an entire season).

I think you can scheme up some ways to support a weak D-line, but the lack of talent this group has is going to cap the ceiling on that.

[Mike Sixel]

6 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

We'll see?  I mean, who has this front office developed?  They traded for Hockenson and the results so far are mixed.  Ingram is mixed.  The rest of the o-line was already in place.  Ditto Jefferson.  They have largely dropped the ball at RB.  Addison looks like a talent but there are some character challenges that make that situation murky.  The special teams have been...ok?  Sounds like this kicker is the real deal but I'm not sure I can put much on that either.  Every effective defensive player preceded them except Phillips.

I'm not trying to drum this front office out.  I think they're working under a "compete" mandate from ownership and doing their best to reset the bad contract situation they had, add talent for the future, and rebuild on the fly.  I think they've done some interesting things with that weird mandate, but so far I can't argue they've developed and drafted well.   These next two years are huge...we need to start seeing an ability to get young players and make them better.

Kind of hurt by death and season ending injury this year. That's two more picks not doing anything this year. 

[TheLeviathan]

52 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Kind of hurt by death and season ending injury this year. That's two more picks not doing anything this year. 

And I liked both picks.  At this point it may be 3 years before we have an idea unless this draft and the 1st next year crush it.

[Mike Sixel]

23 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

And I liked both picks.  At this point it may be 3 years before we have an idea unless this draft and the 1st next year crush it.

A real downer on what I hoped would be a turning point year for sure. 

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

A real downer on what I hoped would be a turning point year for sure. 

We're going to find out how much film study can replace playing experience next year with the QB.

Let's hope all that cap room gets supplemented with some breakouts from LDR, Reichart, Murphy, Turner, Nailor, etc.  As well as those investments in LB paying off.  (I love all three)

[Mike Sixel]

Risner to the IR. Can't play for at least four games. 

[DocBauer]

I'm not expecting miracles this season. But I'm a little more optimistic about 2024 and the future than some.

What blows my mind is, there's POTENTIALLY a chance that more UDFA are on the 53 man roster than draft choices from 2022-23. While I've never cared WHERE, or HOW, you acquire talent, that's pretty much inexcusable. Of course, the final roster isn't set, nor are we certain yet how some of those 1st two drafts ultimately turn out.

Kwesi has done some really good things, IMO, including trying to get the payroll right. And I think he got the 2024 draft RIGHT. And again, some of the UDFA signings have been really good, along with a handful of practice squad players really stepping forward. 

But the 2022-23 drafts have to at least warm Kwesi's seat!

DESPITE a couple bad drafts, I think this team might only be about 8 or 9 guys away from being REALLY GOOD. And that's a combination of starters and key backups.

The biggest key for 2025 is McCarthy learning ad much as he can in film work and observation while getting ready for the various 2025 camps.

I don't know how the final 53 is going to turn out with only the obvious candidates being cut so far...buuut...

SAFETY is 7 deep if you want to give Cine another shot and you like the solid veteran McCain. I got that right didn't I? You don't keep 6 safeties, much less 7. But OUTSRANDING DEPTH!

CORNERBACK is a massive FLUX area because you THOUGHT you had a stud young player in Blackmon, and then had the tragic loss of 4th round pick Jackson. But Gilmore and Griffen join Murphy. Evans, and maybe Moreau as depth. But McGothern has probably played himself on to the roster. Do they keep 6 CB?

We might be OK for a season, but 3FA is scary for 2025.

I think we might be surprised at ILB.  I keep hearing we might only keep 3 considering how much nickel an dime packages are used and Asamoah might be gone.

BUT, the OLB spot is so damn deep we might have trouble keeping everyone. I keep hearing Jones is on the bubble. Then I read he's had a great camp. Who to believe? Well, unless he's injured, they don't play the top players in preseason now. I'm guessing he's safe. Ward is a solid 4th-5th option. But Bo Richter has been a standout. UDFA Murphy might have been a STEAL, but has been hurt. Do they risk waiving him? Or do they use the 2nd  IL option to keep him for a while before making a decision? Porter is a perfect PS option for now. How many teams could have this much talent, old and young, at this spit?

Dl is the biggest ISSUE on this defense. Anyone want to argue? We gave ONE great player in Phillips. OBVIOUSLY, the team believes Bullard is good for ONE MORE year as a run first lineman with Tierney as the WILD CARD who can be good to great. LDR might just BE that X player steal. After that, it's a mystery. Redmond showed enough I want him on the PS. Taimani has really impressed. But do we need another run stuffing NT this year? He's a nice option for 2025 duty. Unless his presence allows Phillips to move around more. Dorsey has been mediocre at best. But do they give up on him after 1 season? Bet he makes the roster.

But DL should be a top consideration in the offseason and draft next year, along with CB.

On the offensive side of things, other than a YOUNG RB to take over for Jones, I'm not sure I see as many issues. We've got a couple really nice backups, but LONG TERM, we have a need.

WR is STRONG with Nailor finally healthy and showing what he can do. Powell is very good in his role. Tristian Jackson has made himself in to  legitimate NFL receiver. Sherfield is experienced and very solid. Jon3s and others look like solid development options.

NO WAY you replace Hockensen. But Oliver and Mundt aren't bad options. Muse has teased since drafted. But it's starting to look like he might have become the athlete when drafted who's big enough, athletic enough, experienced enough, to make a mark now. He's got the talent to be productive and have a solid  career. It's up to him.

At the end of the day, QB play will determine 2024 for the Vikings. IMO, the defense will be good, but not "quite there" due to the DL. CB will be OK. The OLB spot will be good, and better in the future. But Phillips and a couple young players won't be enough to put the defense in the top 5. Top 10 probably. And that's great!

Like the DL, there are questions regarding the OL. OT is NOT an issue. The starters are STUDS. Quessenberry is very solid. Rouse looks like a stud steal. While he might end up the PS. Jurgens has looked very solid to me. Robinson has looked as good or better. I can't decide if Ingam is better than some reports, or ready to be replaced. 

If you have your QB of the future, with talent around him available, you better be damn sure you get OL right.

I believe Donaldson just might have the best year of his career. He's had one year, 2023. In a system, that was as well coached and flush with as much talent as the Vikings have right now. He's got arm talent. That's why he was such a high draft choice. 

I don't believe he's the future of the Vikings. Doesn't mean he can't have a good year and the Vikings can't have have a good year. 

But I think the talent on hand is pretty damn good. And it's looking better. It's getting ready for 2025.

Doesn't mean we can't enjoy 2024. And we might surprise. I just think any doom and gloom should by put aside for some real potential to have a good and fun season where we might just compete

 

[Mike Sixel]

Now Hall is injured..... And they are cutting a couple guys people really liked last year as potential guys

[nicksaviking]

13 hours ago, DocBauer said:

BUT, the OLB spot is so damn deep we might have trouble keeping everyone. I keep hearing Jones is on the bubble. Then I read he's had a great camp. Who to believe? Well, unless he's injured, they don't play the top players in preseason now. I'm guessing he's safe. Ward is a solid 4th-5th option. But Bo Richter has been a standout. UDFA Murphy might have been a STEAL, but has been hurt. Do they risk waiving him? Or do they use the 2nd  IL option to keep him for a while before making a decision? Porter is a perfect PS option for now. How many teams could have this much talent, old and young, at this spit?

 

 

Yeah, even if none of them are elite, they brought in so many edge guys that they'll rotate the front seven (more often than not it will only be a front six) like the Jets and Eagles do. They'll be fresh and be able to blitz in ways that each player specializes in; I can see this team leading the league in sacks even if no single player is a particular stand out. If they get that much pressure on the QBs, the rest of the defense will look good by default.

[Mike Sixel]

41 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, even if none of them are elite, they brought in so many edge guys that they'll rotate the front seven (more often than not it will only be a front six) like the Jets and Eagles do. They'll be fresh and be able to blitz in ways that each player specializes in; I can see this team leading the league in sacks even if no single player is a particular stand out. If they get that much pressure on the QBs, the rest of the defense will look good by default.

Just run up the middle against them.....

[nicksaviking]

40 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Just run up the middle against them.....

Sure, but outside of designed QB runs, there are like three teams left in the league that do that anymore.

[Vanimal46]

In the coming days I would expect to pick up a RB and cut Asamoah. Then sign another guard and cut Evans. 

[Vanimal46]

RB I’m interested in: Frank Gore Jr, D’Onta Freeman, and Semajai Perine (sp?) 

I’m good with either a rookie shooting for upside, or a veteran guy who is good at pass protection 

[nicksaviking]

10 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

RB I’m interested in: Frank Gore Jr, D’Onta Freeman, and Semajai Perine (sp?) 

I’m good with either a rookie shooting for upside, or a veteran guy who is good at pass protection 

I'm surprised Evan Hull got cut by the Colts. 2nd year guy out of Northwestern who was known for his passing down skills and pass protection.

Also from Maple Grove, though the local angle doesn't do anything for me.