The Twins Daily Table Setter: December 7, 2023

[Blyleven2011]

10 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Cincinnati is one of the 5 smallest markets in major league baseball.

So your point is the Twins should spend the big bucks too with our window of opportunity  ... 

This isn't that great of a free agency  , pitching  has a few quality arms but Twins Won't  spend on pitching  , trade hopefully is coming for a quality arm for the rotation   and we definitely need one if we want to be anything like the pitching was in 2023 ...

Would you have paid 8 million  for pagan , what did Pagan do ,  change agents ...

[jorgenswest]

Miami already has Berti and he is a much better version of Farmer. I am sure they would like a clear upgrade for next year and I am not sure the Twins have that. Brooks Lee would fit in behind Berti ready to take over next season or earlier when he dominates AAA. I don’t see them having any need for Farmer.

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

So your point is the Twins should spend the big bucks too with our window of opportunity  ... 

This isn't that great of a free agency  , pitching  has a few quality arms but Twins Won't  spend on pitching  , trade hopefully is coming for a quality arm for the rotation   and we definitely need one if we want to be anything like the pitching was in 2023 ...

Would you have paid 8 million  for pagan , what did Pagan do ,  change agents ...

My point is this is not the "big bucks". $8M a year for a decent relief pitcher is the going rate. $15M a year for an average starting position player is the going rate. This isn't "overpaying" it's just "paying". I'm not going to argue that Pagan is the best choice for their bullpen but it's better to go after someone you like than to sit around and wait to see if there is anything left over after everyone else has their pick.

I don't expect the Twins to fill their roster with free agents but they should absolutely be looking to supplement and fill holes for this season on the open market. If Cincinnati and Milwaukee can afford it so can the Twins.

[Doctor Wu]

13 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

IMO we need to be quick because many teams need pitching that have excess SSs & catchers. After Yamamoto signs, the SPs who are up for trade will be gone soon.

Absolutely! I don't want to wait another 2 full months before the front office cobbles together a trade, and as you say, risk losing some of the better arms that are available.

[Doctor Wu]

If we can't find some pitchers soon, I may start wishing for the Twins to bring back the likes of Jharel Cotton and Chris Archer! And if we don't do something soon, that may be all that is left to choose from. 

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, Doctor Wu said:

Absolutely! I don't want to wait another 2 full months before the front office cobbles together a trade, and as you say, risk losing some of the better arms that are available.

For example MIL is going to lose Burns. They have Adames & a boatload of quality catchers. they can spare their backup catcher. MIA will cobble that up in a min. FO has to see the opportunity they have. If they think MIA will come & knock at their door with a wonderful deal they'll be left sucking their thumb. SEA will be waiting to see how Yamamoto & other firebrands shakes out before they decide & if none come to fruitation then they won't trade anybody. A bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

22 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

I can't see the Red Sox being interested in Taylor.  They already have a young CF (Jarren Duran) who had a breakout season last year.  The other clubs, maybe.  Not Boston. 

I predict Ohtani signs with the Dodgers.  Soto in Yankee Stadium will be interesting.  Good trade for both teams.  

If the Marlins really are willing to trade Luzardo the price would be steep but it would be a tremendous opportunity for the Twins to add a 26 year old LH starting pitcher with electric stuff.  He and Pablo Lopez at the top of the Twins rotation with young hitters coming up and maturing would make the Twins contenders for years.  

Here is a trade I proposed on BBTV.  As I said, the price would be steep, but it's a classic "sell high" for both the Twins and the Marlins.  Jeffers is the key piece going to Miami.  

Twins

NAME	POSITION	SURPLUS
Jesus Luzardo	SP	63.3
Sixto Sanchez	SP	0.0

Total Value:

63.30

Marlins

NAME	POSITION	SURPLUS
Ryan Jeffers	C	28.5
Jorge Polanco	2B	9.4
Emmanuel Rodriguez	OF	19.7
Josh Winder	LRP	3.9

Total Value:

61.50

TWINSMARLINS

If this deal were made, who would catch for the Twins? Insert Vasquez for Jeffers and eliminate Sixto Sanchez, I would do that deal.,

[Fatbat]

2 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

If we can't find some pitchers soon, I may start wishing for the Twins to bring back the likes of Jharel Cotton and Chris Archer! And if we don't do something soon, that may be all that is left to choose from. 

Patience grasshopper.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

22 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

Would you do this trade?  I would.  I'm selling high on Jeffers and going with the veteran Vasquez with Camargo.  I'm willing to give up Emmanuel Rodriguez to be able to bring in a top of rotation talent in Luzardo who finally also gives the Twins a LH starter.  Jenkins on the fast track is the only reason I trade Rodriguez.  We need this pitching.

I insist on Sixto Sanchez as a thrown in.  Kid has an electric arm.  Think Matt Canterino.  If he and Canterino can stay healthy (a big if, I'll concede) the Twins could have one end up in the bullpen and one in the rotation.  But even if both ended up in the bullpen, can you imagine a pen with Duran, Sanchez and Canterino???  

It's a big gamble to trade Jeffers and risk that Vasquez/Camargo flop.  It's also a big gamble to trade Rodriguez.  But the dividends Luzardo and Sanchez could bring to Twins pitching with Lewis, Julien, Lee, Jenkins, Kirilloff and maybe Miranda to build around offensively with Lopez, Luzardo, Varland, Ryan, Ober and Paddack is worth the risk in my opinion.  

This trade undervalues Jeffers and over values Vasquez. This trade leaves the Twins dangerously barren at catcher, a key defensive position and most importantly, a key position for the pitching staff.  

[JD-TWINS]

14 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Is Cincinnati a big market team  ???

I've never thought them to be anything more than the Twins ...

Mid market ...

There’s 1/2 as many people here in the Cincinnati area as the Twin Cities. It’s St. Paul downtown with associated suburbs. The Castellini ownership is very frugal as well. The Lindner’s - the local equivalent to the Pohlad’s sold the club after the new stadium was named for their insurance company.

The “big market Reds” was tongue in cheek, or should have been. Columbus & Indianapolis & Louisville & Lexington are all roughly 100 miles away. Minor league clubs in Indy, Louisville, & Dayton as well as Toledo.

As a big Twins fan who has been here for 30 plus years, the Reds & their fans think they are the Mecca for baseball since it’s the oldest franchise. Pretty sure they have only gone over 2 million fans/yr. 2-3 times and that dates back to the Big Red Machine playing in a 56,000 seat or more, football stadium. They were in the Wildcard in September when Twins came to town and they drew maybe 18,000 per game.

They spent $3-4 million more on Pagan than necessary over 2 years, no big deal. Don’t know much about Martinez but pundits seem to like his arm.

However, they were playing Encarnacion-Strand at 1B & Steer/Marti at 3B, Star in LF & at 2B. Steer was voted their 2023 MVP - he’s now in LF. Strand played some 3B as well. Stephenson is the DH most of the time when he doesn’t catch. India was ROY 3 seasons ago & is their Captain and now he has no position as McClean at 2B is a lock. Why spend $15M on more depth and displace 2nd year guys with great upside & great contracts????

Assuming one or two guys will be offered in trade - they have a couple good OF on their bench in Fairchild & Fraley (?). 

They need a veteran pitcher to stabilize their rotation - that’s where this $15M should have been directed. This move for Cincinnati would be like the Twins paying for a FA corner IF after finding out Miranda is healed & ready to go at a high level.

[saviking]

Braxton Garret seems very intriguing ..