Block buster trade

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

I think you're underselling the importance of defense at the catcher position & trying to sidetrack this thread. If the defense wasn't the deciding factor why go through all that trouble with a 3-way trade because Contreras was the more offensive catcher? When a successful organization like the Braves makes defense (that doesn't mean ignoring hitting) a priority in the premium position of catcher then the Twins need to take note.

 

I agree that the Twins need to improve their offense but a big bat isn't the answer. Twins have been drafting, signing and hoarding big bats, yet their answer is always another big bat. The Twins were 3rd in HRs last season, their focus on HRs has resulted for years SOs in clutch ABs, poor hitting in RISP, especially with the bases loaded, until Royce Lewis (who doesn't adhere to the Twins philosophy) showed up.

 

This FO together with their minions have said that Jake Cave is a great CF sub (which means a lot of time) Jorge Polanco is a great SS & Luis Arraez is a great 2B man. Their bat played well there but their glove definitely did not, they didn't take their defense at all into consideration. If no one stood up & contradicted the FO we would still have a Cave-ish type CF sub, Polanco would still play SS and Arraez would be playing 2B & we'd be competing with KC, CWS & DET for the cellar. Thanks to those who stood up, FO has changed their position by upgrading at CF sub, SS & traded Arraez for Lopez (upgrading SP). Those were the biggest reasons together with Lewis that we broke that winless PS game & ultimately series losing streak.

 

My point in this article is to provoke people to think & stop drinking the FO Kool-Aid. For us to win a WS with this team we need to upgrade our premium position catcher, change our hitting philosophy & maintain our pitching dominance.

Who is it that "stood up & contradicted the FO" so we don't still have a Cave-ish type CF sub, Polanco playing SS, and Arraez playing 2B? I'd love to know who was so influential that in standing up and contradicting the FO they completely changed the way the FO thinks. Sounds like some powerful folks.

[stringer bell]

2 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

I think you're underselling the importance of defense at the catcher position & trying to sidetrack this thread. If the defense wasn't the deciding factor why go through all that trouble with a 3-way trade because Contreras was the more offensive catcher? When a successful organization like the Braves makes defense (that doesn't mean ignoring hitting) a priority in the premium position of catcher then the Twins need to take note.

 

I agree that the Twins need to improve their offense but a big bat isn't the answer. Twins have been drafting, signing and hoarding big bats, yet their answer is always another big bat. The Twins were 3rd in HRs last season, their focus on HRs has resulted for years SOs in clutch ABs, poor hitting in RISP, especially with the bases loaded, until Royce Lewis (who doesn't adhere to the Twins philosophy) showed up.

 

This FO together with their minions have said that Jake Cave is a great CF sub (which means a lot of time) Jorge Polanco is a great SS & Luis Arraez is a great 2B man. Their bat played well there but their glove definitely did not, they didn't take their defense at all into consideration. If no one stood up & contradicted the FO we would still have a Cave-ish type CF sub, Polanco would still play SS and Arraez would be playing 2B & we'd be competing with KC, CWS & DET for the cellar. Thanks to those who stood up, FO has changed their position by upgrading at CF sub, SS & traded Arraez for Lopez (upgrading SP). Those were the biggest reasons together with Lewis that we broke that winless PS game & ultimately series losing streak.

 

My point in this article is to provoke people to think & stop drinking the FO Kool-Aid. For us to win a WS with this team we need to upgrade our premium position catcher, change our hitting philosophy & maintain our pitching dominance.

Please find me the quotes on Cave, Polanco and Arraez. The FO might have a different standard for "acceptable" or "passable" than you do, but never have I heard that Cave, Polanco (at shortstop) and Arraez were even above average defensively. 

I don't think Lewis has totally disregarded his Twins coaching. I don't remember the quotes from which you are saying that he doesn't adhere to the Twins philosophy. It fits your narrative to say that, but Royce still strikes out plenty. He just happens to be a very talented human being. 

The Twins need better players to win in post season. Some might be better just by getting experience as major leaguers. I'm seeing 2024 as a season that will depend largely on whether the Twins can maintain their pitching. If they do, I expect they'll win the Central and will have a chance to take another step or more in post season.

[Doctor Gast]

3 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Who is it that "stood up & contradicted the FO" so we don't still have a Cave-ish type CF sub, Polanco playing SS, and Arraez playing 2B? I'd love to know who was so influential that in standing up and contradicting the FO they completely changed the way the FO thinks. Sounds like some powerful folks.

Maybe FO don't listen to the fans but the owners & unbias baseball reporters do & FO needs to listen to them.

[chpettit19]

Just now, Doctor Gast said:

Maybe FO don't listen to the fans but the owners & unbias baseball reporters do & FO do listen to them.

Yeah, there's a 0% chance the FO has changed any of their ways because of fans opinions. If the FO cared so much about fan opinions they wouldn't have traded a fan favorite in Arraez. There is absolutely no basis to this idea. The owners aren't listening to fans either. And the FO couldn't care less what baseball reporters (biased or unbiased) say about their strategies. This is wildly off base. The fanbase is way too split to even think this would be a possibility. This isn't a thing.

[nicksaviking]

4 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Maybe FO don't listen to the fans but the owners & unbias baseball reporters do & FO needs to listen to them.

By “fans” you mean fan, as in yourself. You realize you’ve basically been arguing against the board this whole thread right?

[Doctor Gast]

18 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Please find me the quotes on Cave, Polanco and Arraez. The FO might have a different standard for "acceptable" or "passable" than you do, but never have I heard that Cave, Polanco (at shortstop) and Arraez were even above average defensively. 

"Great" is a general exageration by some members who try to justify not moving these players off these positions when I advocate for doing so. Members now are saying that Jeffers is "untouchable" that's super star MVP statis. And where do you think that noise came from?

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

"Great" is a general exageration by some members who try to justify not moving these players off these positions when I advocate for doing so. Members now are saying that Jeffers is "untouchable" that's super star MVP statis.

Your criticism has been directed at the Twins FO for serving the "Kool-Ade". I haven't heard the FO say Jeffers was untouchable or that he was a superstar. 

[jorgenswest]

It is @Doctor Gast’s thread. He put up a proposal and invited us to argue back.  I jumped in a few times with a back and forth and got out. Not my thread. He listened to ideas of others, changed it up a bit and kept the argument going. I appreciate the thread and look forward to his next thread where we might not see eye to eye.

[Doctor Gast]

On 12/4/2023 at 8:06 AM, TopGunn#22 said:

Doc, I like this trade more than the other one.  I'm Tony0 on BBTV and as I commented there, while I hate giving up Julien, getting a young SP like Miller from Seattle is key in giving up a talent like Julien.  And getting a solid young catching prospect as well as an OF prospect is excellent.  The SS is relatively unnecessary as we're stocked at SS.  Maybe an arm would be a better 4th piece but I'd do this trade even with the Carrigg.  

I thought I had responded to your text but couldn't find it. I appreciate your trade offers & share in the love for TonyO. BTV listed Julien as OFer & Carrigg as SS, they really blew that. Carrigg can play anywhere including pitcher, but he was drafted as & his heart is at catcher. He also has a rocket for an arm. To fill a need at CF he was moved off of catcher his last college year. Which cost him a high ranking at catcher in the '23 prospect Draft. He has been highly underrated IMO he can become an elite catcher.

 

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, jorgenswest said:

It is @Doctor Gast’s thread. He put up a proposal and invited us to argue back.  I jumped in a few times with a back and forth and got out. Not my thread. He listened to ideas of others, changed it up a bit and kept the argument going. I appreciate the thread and look forward to his next thread where we might not see eye to eye.

Thank you jorgenswest, I appreciate it.

[EGFTShaw]

On 11/30/2023 at 12:44 PM, DJL44 said:

Jeffers is so awful he rates average or above in basically every defensive measure for catchers. If he's awful then most major league catchers are awful. It's like the reverse Lake Wobegon.

The 😆was for the Lake Wobegon reference.

[nicksaviking]

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