Are the Astros still cheating or was it just smart baseball?

[Schmoeman5]

Last night's Astros vs Rangers game was turned upside down by 1 swing of the bat. By everyone's least favorite Astro. Jose Altuve. And I suggest that there was some serious gamesmanship on the part of Dusty Baker that shouldn't have been allowed. After the hbp on Garcia. Baker was ejected along with Abreu and Garcia. But Baker would not leave the dugout. It was a good 15 to 20 minutes before play resumes. I believe that delay had an effect on LeClerc the Rangers closer. Why was Baker allowed to drag it out so long? He knew exactly what he was doing and yet the umpires allowed it. Talk about bad umpiring with balls and strikes. That was a decision which very well could end the Rangers season. 

[terrydactyls]

First, it was a 12-minute delay.  And second, that short of time between mound appearances should not have an impact.

[Dave Borton]

14 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

First, it was a 12-minute delay.  And second, that short of time between mound appearances should not have an impact.

No more than if Tex went on a hitting spree and pitcher had to sit for those 12 min.

[stringer bell]

Good strategy by Baker. If things aren’t working, try to change the tempo. The Astros have been outstanding on the road. After going to Arlington down 0-2, they are coming home up 3-2. 

[Schmoeman5]

19 minutes ago, davidborton said:

No more than if Tex went on a hitting spree and pitcher had to sit for those 12 min.

You're right. But if they went on a hitting spree.theyd most likely have scored more runs. 

[ashbury]

Altuve's on track to be your least favorite Hall of Famer, too.

[Schmoeman5]

3 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

First, it was a 12-minute delay.  And second, that short of time between mound appearances should not have an impact.

The article I read said it was a 25 minute stoppage. And that was from a Houston reporter

[terrydactyls]

1 hour ago, Schmoeman5 said:

The article I read said it was a 25 minute stoppage. And that was from a Houston reporter

The article I read was from a non-biased source.

[Jocko87]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

Altuve's on track to be your least favorite Hall of Famer, too.

He's my favorite Astro right now, Yordan being on my naughty list for the time being.

The better question is why would he throw at him on purpose?  A very important reliever is suspended now.  At that point of the game, in the postseason, nobody is trying settle scores regardless of how much he pimped the home run.  Let's put two runners on with no outs in the 8th, sure.  They'll see him again next year.

Garcia is at fault for making his pitcher wait.  He should be getting suspended too.  Trying to start a fight, sprinting around trying to get at someone always has been suspendable. 

To frame this as some sort of Astros cheating thing is one heckova stretch.  Let's have some evidence when we say that type of thing. Dusty was right to be apoplectic.

[Jocko87]

4 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

You're right. But if they went on a hitting spree.theyd most likely have scored more runs. 

They have a place where they can hit and throw while they wait.  No excuse. More likely a fairly green closer in a odd tough spot.

The first pitch after the home run was up in Dubons face.  Was that on purpose?  Probably not but if it hit him K-D bar the doors.

[Food N Wine Cat]

A. How is that considered cheating?

B. Is there any possibility that the Rangers bullpen, who blew more saves than they earned all season, just did what they have been doing all season?

[Schmoeman5]

14 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

The article I read was from a non-biased source.

I don't believe a Houston reporter would be biased towards the Rangers.  As I watched it seemed like 15-20  min. I know Baker had enough time sitting in the dugout to order a grilled cheese sandwich and a cup of coffee. And if this happened during a Twins game, this would be Armageddon like. And the ML rule for ejection states person ejected should immediately leave. If it wasn't an issue then why was Bochy upset about it.

[tony&rodney]

There is an assumption that Baker knew he had already been ejected and if he actually did know, he wanted to direct a little more wisdom towards the umpire chief. It seems highly unlikely that Baker was putting LeClerc in the freezer.

Only Abreu and Maldonado know if that pitch was meant to hit Garcia. It seems doubtful from a baseball strategy perspective. MLB reacted with a little bit of venom perhaps. It is unclear right now whether an appeal will be filed on the two game suspension. If there is any proof that Abreu threw at Garcia with intent to hit him, then the suspension should have been more serious than just two games. Maybe something unfolds over the offseason but I doubt it.

I'm a Twins fan first and then an American League fan, but really just a baseball fan. The nonsense about the Astros cheating is as tired as the blame Barry Bonds for everything craziness while ignoring everyone else who began, were involved in ,a nd carried on the entire steroids debacle. I understand the nonsense and cheating undertaken by the Astros and didn't like it. I also believe numerous teams were involved in similar shenanigans and that MLB was privy to all of it and just turned their backs until reporters returned definitive evidence and corroboration. Let's face it, Manfred is a stain on the game far worse than others.