Twins Add Clete Thomas, DFA Tyler Robertson

[boylan]

They have a ton of potential LOOGYs - Thielbar (26), Thompson (26), Hernandez (24) - who are all pitching better than him at AAA.

 

As bad as Thomas is, he's a lot better than Benson.

 

Cruel, just cruel. I haven't been following Benson but the Ranger's AA assignment and comments from Ryan were telling.

[jorgenswest]

How is Burnett the loser in all this? If he were a better player, wouldn't he have stuck with one of those teams? Wherever you set the bar, there are always going to be some players who are just at that level - sometimes they can clear it, sometimes they can't. That doesn't mean the system is broken; it means that in MLB you don't give participation trophies - you have to be good enough to make a club want to keep you.

 

You realize that everytime he is designated he is in limbo for 10 days and then transitions his new team. He has pitched 14 innings for 4 teams and is currently in limbo again. That's 4 big league teams and 2 minor league stops and many days in designated limbo. Even if you don't care how difficult it is personally to move that many times, he really hasn't had a chance to begin his 2013 season.

 

Teams do this to try to add organizational depth. They do so planning to designate the player and add him to their minor leagues. They hope he will clear waivers with them, if not they lose a few dollars in claim money.

 

There is a simple fix. The rule should be that teams claiming a player on waivers must do so knowing that they have to keep the player on the 40 man roster the rest of the season. If at any time they need to take the player off the 40, the player becomes a minor league free agent free to sign with any team.

 

If this were the rule, teams would be more careful about making a claim and only claim those players with a real shot at staying on the 40. It would not be possible for a player like Burnett to lose a third or more of a season at a key age in their career.

 

If you still believe that Burnett is not a loser in all this, I welcome your argument.

[boylan]

Butera is signed for $700K this year and I've seen on non-Twins sites that there is interest in him as a back-up catcher but several teams. So, he is not getting DFA'ed.

 

I don't think he is that much worse that Tim Laudner. Worse at the plate obviously but better behind the plate. And Laudner play like 9 seasons for the Twins.

[Riverbrian]

I hope Clete comes to town having picked up a trick or two in the past year.

 

I hope he is a smashing success... Although... I still want to see Arcia instead.

[johnnydakota]

I'm honestly not sure but isn't he on a ML contract this year? So even if the Twins release him, they still have to pay him his 1m salary? And he isn't the worst player on the 40 man roster.

 

I believe it is 700,000 and yes, he is the worst player on the 40 man roster, a 30 year old career .183 hitting catcher.....There is no reason to keep him

[MichiganTwins]

I hope Clete comes to town having picked up a trick or two in the past year.

 

I hope he is a smashing success... Although... I still want to see Arcia instead.

 

I do not forsee Clete playing a lot. This move is necessary for a back up CF and someone who can be easily let go of once WIlkin returns. Hicks is still going to play everyday. Now he might get a day off once and a while.

[Riverbrian]

I do not forsee Clete playing a lot. This move is necessary for a back up CF and someone who can be easily let go of once WIlkin returns. Hicks is still going to play everyday. Now he might get a day off once and a while.

 

I agree

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

Hopefully this is another junk player on his way out of Minnesota. We've done a lot of cleaning house the past few seasons and it is great that the Twins finally may be sending out a player who's only upside is as a LOOGY. Thomas himself isn't very good, but I hope he'll provide some value.

[johnnydakota]

Butera is signed for $700K this year and I've seen on non-Twins sites that there is interest in him as a back-up catcher but several teams. So, he is not getting DFA'ed.

 

I don't think he is that much worse that Tim Laudner. Worse at the plate obviously but better behind the plate. And Laudner play like 9 seasons for the Twins.

 

Interest in Butera? How about packaging him and Blackburn together and see if we can get 2 roundtrip greyhound tickets from Minneapolis to St Paul... No really if Drew has any value trade him...

[Oldgoat_MN]

I have to believe that when signing Thomas the Twins told him he would see MLB if he performed well and they had a need. These events have come to pass.

 

He will be an adequate backup CF. I wish him all the best.

[cmathewson]

You realize that everytime he is designated he is in limbo for 10 days and then transitions his new team. He has pitched 14 innings for 4 teams and is currently in limbo again. That's 4 big league teams and 2 minor league stops and many days in designated limbo. Even if you don't care how difficult it is personally to move that many times, he really hasn't had a chance to begin his 2013 season.

 

Teams do this to try to add organizational depth. They do so planning to designate the player and add him to their minor leagues. They hope he will clear waivers with them, if not they lose a few dollars in claim money.

 

There is a simple fix. The rule should be that teams claiming a player on waivers must do so knowing that they have to keep the player on the 40 man roster the rest of the season. If at any time they need to take the player off the 40, the player becomes a minor league free agent free to sign with any team.

 

If this were the rule, teams would be more careful about making a claim and only claim those players with a real shot at staying on the 40. It would not be possible for a player like Burnett to lose a third or more of a season at a key age in their career.

 

If you still believe that Burnett is not a loser in all this, I welcome your argument.

 

I am not crying for Burnett. He did OK for himself. It's part of the game. If he was better at what he did, he would still be pitching for the Twins.

[greengoblinrulz]

Don't feel bad for Burnett....if he was better, held stick with an organization.

He's making between 3-4k for every mlb game he's active. Believe the checks clear in Tor, Balt, or CHI better than they do in Syracuse, Des Moines or Rochester

[gunnarthor]

I believe it is 700,000 and yes, he is the worst player on the 40 man roster, a 30 year old career .183 hitting catcher.....There is no reason to keep him

 

Well, first off, he's 29.

 

If you didn't know the names but you were told you could have a 29 year old catcher who put up a .550 OPS in the majors last year and managed about .2 WAR (mostly b/c of his defense) or you could have a 25 year old OFer who, in 8 minor league seasons, has a .558 OPS against AAA pitching, who would you pick?

[cmathewson]

Interest in Butera? How about packaging him and Blackburn together and see if we can get 2 roundtrip greyhound tickets from Minneapolis to St Paul... No really if Drew has any value trade him...

 

With Hermann and Pinto performing, I think it is only a matter of time before they trade Drew. First, he needs to prove that he's healthy. Then they'll start taking offers. This usually happens after teams sign a bunch of their draft picks and need to make room for them.

[Cap'n Piranha]

This just doesn't make a ton of sense anyway you cut it. Is Robertson blocked? Yes. Is he a top prospect? No. But he is a lefty reliever with MLB experience who was putting up respectable #'s at AAA. Who is only 25 years old and could become a reliable LOOGY.

 

If the Twins felt they needed a backup CF, why didn't they just bring up Benson 10 days ago?

 

If by respectable numbers, referring to Robertson, you mean a guy with a 1.84 WHIP and 16 BB in 20.2 IP, than I guess our definitions of respectable vary greatly.

 

As for why they didn't bring up Benson, I would imagine it had something to do with his .192/.256/.285 slash, along with 50 K's in 151 AB's, with only 1 homer. Again, if that screams "I deserve a promotion to the show, even if only to provide depth on the bench" to you, I think you and I are at an impasse.

[gunnarthor]

Interest in Butera? How about packaging him and Blackburn together and see if we can get 2 roundtrip greyhound tickets from Minneapolis to St Paul... No really if Drew has any value trade him...

 

Astros tried to trade for him a few years ago. Not sure if he's changed much since then - everyone knew he was a no hit, good defense catcher. I think he has marginal trade value, at least more than a LOOGY, in that ML quality catchers are hard to find. WAR has a ton of problems and I don't really like it but, according to WAR, Drew was about as valuable to the Twins last year as Gerald Laird, Kurt Suzuki or Lou Marson were to their teams.

[diehardtwinsfan]

We already have 14 pages of the Benson thread debating the worth of Butera... Do we need more?

[jorgenswest]

I am not crying for Burnett. He did OK for himself. It's part of the game. If he was better at what he did, he would still be pitching for the Twins.

 

I have a harder time following baseball without caring about the people that play the game I enjoy so much.

 

Designated for Assignment: The Rough Road of Alex Burnett - Twinkie Town

[jorgenswest]

Don't feel bad for Burnett....if he was better, held stick with an organization.

He's making between 3-4k for every mlb game he's active. Believe the checks clear in Tor, Balt, or CHI better than they do in Syracuse, Des Moines or Rochester

 

You realize that he spent only a handful of days in the majors. Most of this season has been in those other cities you mentioned or in designated limbo.

 

There is any easy fix. Allow players to be designated once during the regular season. After that treat it like a returned rule 5 player or free agency.

[PopRiveter]

On 5/20, I wrote this

"Fully in support of:

Colabello up, Parmelee down. Wood to 60 day DL

Deduno up, Hernandez down. DFA Tyler Robertson.

 

Almost ready for:

Gibson up, Worley down.

 

Can't believe I'm writing this, but wouldn't be fully opposed to:

Clete Thomas up, Hicks down. DFA Joe Benson."

 

That's 11 transactions. Since writing, 8 of those have happened. (Arcia went down instead of Parmelee. The Plouffe and Ramirez injuries bought time for Hicks. Walters took the spot I thought Gibson was going to get.)

 

I'm surprised how close I've come to getting all my wishes fulfilled.

Now, let's try this:

I'm fully in support of an 11 game winning streak.

 

 

 

 

 

[IdahoPilgrim]

 

There is a simple fix. The rule should be that teams claiming a player on waivers must do so knowing that they have to keep the player on the 40 man roster the rest of the season. If at any time they need to take the player off the 40, the player becomes a minor league free agent free to sign with any team.

 

If this were the rule, teams would be more careful about making a claim and only claim those players with a real shot at staying on the 40. It would not be possible for a player like Burnett to lose a third or more of a season at a key age in their career.

 

If you still believe that Burnett is not a loser in all this, I welcome your argument.

 

I would be open to a rule change like this.

 

That being said, I still think Burnett's situation (and all those like him) is due more to marginal talent than to a broken system.

[jorgenswest]

I would be open to a rule change like this.

 

That being said, I still think Burnett's situation (and all those like him) is due more to marginal talent than to a broken system.

 

We agree on his talent. His situation is due to a rule that can be changed. The MLBPA needs to take care of the large number of people in its organization that have marginal talent.

[gil4]

He's got (had, will have?) +velocity

I don't remember ever hearing about plus velocity for him. I think the best was average with possible plus potential due to his size.

[70charger]

You realize that he spent only a handful of days in the majors. Most of this season has been in those other cities you mentioned or in designated limbo.

 

There is any easy fix. Allow players to be designated once during the regular season. After that treat it like a returned rule 5 player or free agency.

 

I have to say that I originally came down on the "tough ****" side of things. It's hard to have much sympathy for someone making a relatively large amount of money for doing things relatively not-very-well.

 

But I've come around to thinking that you may be onto something here. Teams gaming their 40-man to get organization filler while violating the spirit of the waiver claim doesn't seem very fair to the people involved. I like your solution; maybe allow two designations per season, but I think you're arguing your point well.

[IdahoPilgrim]

We agree on his talent. His situation is due to a rule that can be changed. The MLBPA needs to take care of the large number of people in its organization that have marginal talent.

 

It's up to MLBPA to decide what their mission is. Remember, most of these rules have been negotiated with the MLBPA and were enacted with their approval. This could be an area that they just don't have a strong feeling about, one that they were willing to sacrifice in order to get an agreement with ownership. I'm not going to second guess them on what they were willing to accept.

[boylan]

I don't remember ever hearing about plus velocity for him. I think the best was average with possible plus potential due to his size.

 

He threw 93-94 last year with the Twins end of last year. He actually looked pretty good at the time and I was wondering if he'd push Duensing down to AAA this year. Obviously he didn't perform this spring and his velocity is apparently down a lot (I haven't seen him pitch this year but others are saying 85mph !?!?).

[cmathewson]

I don't remember ever hearing about plus velocity for him. I think the best was average with possible plus potential due to his size.

 

He topped out at 94 in high school. But he had a funky delivery that the Twins smoothed out. In the process, he went down to sitting at 92. That was good enough with his plus slider. He came to camp with an 84-86 MPH fastball. They thought he'd add velo as he went this year. He did not. His velo is not good enough for the majors.

[cmathewson]

I have to say that I originally came down on the "tough ****" side of things. It's hard to have much sympathy for someone making a relatively large amount of money for doing things relatively not-very-well.

 

But I've come around to thinking that you may be onto something here. Teams gaming their 40-man to get organization filler while violating the spirit of the waiver claim doesn't seem very fair to the people involved. I like your solution; maybe allow two designations per season, but I think you're arguing your point well.

 

If you limit waiver claims, guys won't get claimed as much, and most will stay with their organizations. That's not a bad thing, I suppose. But part of the point of the waiver system is to give guys opportunities to play in the majors.

[boylan]

One thing that is super clear to me after reading this thread and some of the 10,000+ pages of the Benson thread is that the Twins are in no way hesitating to drop their marginal players off the 40 man roster spot as needed.

 

Does make me wondering - do the Twins have a bumper crop of prospects that will be need to be added to the 40 man roster after the season?

[snepp]

He threw 93-94 last year with the Twins end of last year.

 

 

His fastball(s) averaged between 88 and 89 last year, and even showed slight decline at the end of the year.

 

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/fgraphs/3223_P_FA_20130405.png

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/fgraphs/3223_P_FT_20130405.png