An aside about strikeouts

[denarded]

Yay! We only struck out 11 times today! I'm going to sound dumb to those who have some sort of formula of Power/K(BB+Groundball) xl aunch angle-blah blah blah. We haven't faced great pitching the last few games and can barely hit at home. I'm done listening to the apologists of 'it takes striking out to score runs' Put the ball in play. Put pressure on the defense. Today against a marginal team we did not do that. 11 times we let their defense not have a chance to make a mistake. Combine that with our pathetic bases loaded avg. and I think I've got this team figured out. Can't believe I'm frustrated after a win. Good Day.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

On 6/17/2023 at 3:56 PM, denarded said:

Yay! We only struck out 11 times today! I'm going to sound dumb to those who have some sort of formula of Power/K(BB+Groundball) xl aunch angle-blah blah blah. We haven't faced great pitching the last few games and can barely hit at home. I'm done listening to the apologists of 'it takes striking out to score runs' Put the ball in play. Put pressure on the defense. Today against a marginal team we did not do that. 11 times we let their defense not have a chance to make a mistake. Combine that with our pathetic bases loaded avg. and I think I've got this team figured out. Can't believe I'm frustrated after a win. Good Day.

I’m a believer in the run creation stats, but I’m with you. I’m frustrated with this team’s inability to avoid outs.

[PopRiveter]

As a fan who enjoys watching exciting baseball, I hate this offensive approach aesthetically. It pretty much eliminates extended rallies-which are my favorite part of baseball.

I understand the logic of strategy. I’ve not embraced it because I dislike the baseball it produces, but the numbers seem to make a case that teams can produce runs with this approach.

I’m actually kind of pleasantly surprised to see it backfire so convincingly. Maybe this will lead the Twins decision makers to build on talent with on-base skills and foster an offensive approach that I care to watch.

I don’t have the interest or stomach for all these strikeouts so I’m not watching until things change.

[Doctor Wu]

7 minutes ago, PopRiveter said:

As a fan who enjoys watching exciting baseball, I hate this offensive approach aesthetically. It pretty much eliminates extended rallies-which are my favorite part of baseball.

I understand the logic of strategy. I’ve not embraced it because I dislike the baseball it produces, but the numbers seem to make a case that teams can produce runs with this approach.

I’m actually kind of pleasantly surprised to see it backfire so convincingly. Maybe this will lead the Twins decision makers to build on talent with on-base skills and foster an offensive approach that I care to watch.

I don’t have the interest or stomach for all these strikeouts so I’m not watching until things change.

Agreed and agree some more! I hate this "swing for the fences" approach too. Sure, home runs are sexy and exciting ... but so are doubles and triples and stolen bases, and bunting for a hit, and all those other sorts of plays that require putting the ball in play. I miss that type of baseball so much. 

[tony&rodney]

This topic draws so many strong opinions and we get repeatedly told by some that an out is an out, making a strike out the same as a pop up and better than hitting into a double play. The thing is that this is only true out of context. If Farmer hits into a double play with the bases loaded the Twins have a run in and a runner on third base with two out. In this case with the infield playing back a double play is better than a strike out. BTW, I agree with the idea that a batter should get an RBI when a run scores on a double play. Additionally, it is actually possible to have a two strike approach. We actually saw Byron Buxton take such a swing (awkwardly) when he hit a fly ball to right field in his only at bat where he both cut down on his swing and coincidently did not strike out last Saturday. Gallo always swings from his heels and can only hit the ball if the pitcher puts it in the narrow path of that severe upper cut. At this point he would not fare any better versus a Senior Mens League pitcher with pinpoint control.

There is nothing wrong with swinging as hard as one can but there is also a time when the batter must make an attempt to put the ball in play.. The Tigers used two pitchers in the recent series who have strike out "stuff". All of the others have been hit hard or soft, but hit often thus far this year. The idea that strike outs never matter is plain silly. While extra base hits are certainly valuable, not putting the ball in play a third of the time will never be successful on a sustained basis. What is more curious to me is why this was not addressed in Spring Training or actually in a club or system wide meeting immediately following last season. I do think that the Twins are discussing this now, but I don't know. 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

This topic draws so many strong opinions and we get repeatedly told by some that an out is an out, making a strike out the same as a pop up and better than hitting into a double play. The thing is that this is only true out of context. If Farmer hits into a double play with the bases loaded the Twins have a run in and a runner on third base with two out. In this case with the infield playing back a double play is better than a strike out. BTW, I agree with the idea that a batter should get an RBI when a run scores on a double play. Additionally, it is actually possible to have a two strike approach. We actually saw Byron Buxton take such a swing (awkwardly) when he hit a fly ball to right field in his only at bat where he both cut down on his swing and coincidently did not strike out last Saturday. Gallo always swings from his heels and can only hit the ball if the pitcher puts it in the narrow path of that severe upper cut. At this point he would not fare any better versus a Senior Mens League pitcher with pinpoint control.

There is nothing wrong with swinging as hard as one can but there is also a time when the batter must make an attempt to put the ball in play.. The Tigers used two pitchers in the recent series who have strike out "stuff". All of the others have been hit hard or soft, but hit often thus far this year. The idea that strike outs never matter is plain silly. While extra base hits are certainly valuable, not putting the ball in play a third of the time will never be successful on a sustained basis. What is more curious to me is why this was not addressed in Spring Training or actually in a club or system wide meeting immediately following last season. I do think that the Twins are discussing this now, but I don't know. 

Great Post

Strikeouts are a part of baseball... This level of strikeouts are not. 

With the banning of the shift... The front office seemed to consider the extra ground to cover and make defense a priority. 

With the banning of the shift... The front office seemed to ignore our batters striking out even in consideration of the extra ground to cover.

Of the 18 pitchers who have thrown over 10 innings for us this year. 12 of them are averaging over a strikeout an inning. The other 6 are close. 

So strikeouts appear to be a priority when selecting pitchers but strikeouts don't appear to be a priority when choosing hitters. 

On the power side of things... the Twins are 8th in homeruns but those homeruns are really scattered. 

Gallo leads the team in homeruns with 11 and hasn't hit one since May 20th. Taylor is tied for 2nd with Buxton at 10 and that certainly wasn't part of the plan. There are 51 players in the major leagues with as many home runs as Gallo. 

This offense needs to follow your advice if able and I'm not sure if they are able. 

 

 

 

[Craig Arko]

I’m doubting this will really be addressed until the off-season and yet another lineup revamp. So, yes, this is not their year.

[insagt1]

the 'k' is the most useless out in baseball. k's occur a whole lot more than GIDP's and sometimes the DP does result in a run. A k almost never does unless the ball gets by the catcher. Its boring to watch hitter after hitter fail to make contact as much as the Twins do. If you have one slugger on your team who k's a lot, you can get by; but not a whole lineup of them.

I think they miss Arraez helping them on the importance of making contact. So far that trade has been a huge fail for Minnesota...but I'm willing to give it more time. The pitcher they coveted has not been very special, yet. But the bat they lost, has been glaringly obvious.

If Gallo can't hit the ball, remove him. If Buck can't figure out why they need to find a way to put him back on the IL to get him to St. Paul for a couple weeks, they need to do it now.

[ashbury]

The beauty of baseball is that you can score runs in various ways. Despite the rise of Three True Outcomes (HR/BB/SO), there is still variety.

I looked at this year's team totals, and the two teams with fewest GIDP are the Dodgers and the Rangers.  They happen to rank #4 and #1 in runs scored this season.

The two teams with the fewest strikeouts? Washington and Cleveland.  They are, um, not among the leaders in runs scored  (#23 and #27).

There is no sure fire way to build a solid offense.  But avoiding strikeouts is not the place I would look first.