Souhan: Time Running Out On Some Players

[gunnarthor]

Souhan: Time to impress for borderline players | StarTribune.com

 

Basically says that Plouffe, Dozier, Parmelee and Worley shouldn't get too comfortable since the team finally has some potential replacements coming up the pike in Sano, Rosario, Arcia and guys like Meyer and Gibson.

 

The more interesting thing is that Souhan seems to think that Sano/Rosario both could be up a lot quicker than might be typical - suggesting next year as a possibility.

 

Worley's probably playing the worst of that group but is probably the most likely to be part of any long term plans. I do think the other 3 are viewed as stop gaps right now.

[Mike Sixel]

Who is Parmalee the stop-gap for? What 1B is there that is less than 3 years away? I really don't know if there is one (though if you think Sano stays at 3B, I'd think Harrison or Kepler or someone could move to 1B)....

[jokin]

Who is Parmalee the stop-gap for? What 1B is there that is less than 3 years away? I really don't know if there is one (though if you think Sano stays at 3B, I'd think Harrison or Kepler or someone could move to 1B)....

 

...Cola on Line 3...

[Badsmerf]

Justin Morneau OPS: .727

Trevor Plouffe OPS: .737

Justin Morneau salary: 15,000,000

Trevor Plouffe salary: 520,000

 

Out of these two Plouffe is the one in jeopardy of losing a roster spot? I know he means next year, it just baffles me how much negativity Plouffe gets from the Twins.

[ThePuck]

Justin Morneau OPS: .727

Trevor Plouffe OPS: .737

Justin Morneau salary: 15,000,000

Trevor Plouffe salary: 520,000

 

Out of these two Plouffe is the one in jeopardy of losing a roster spot? I know he means next year, it just baffles me how much negativity Plouffe gets from the Twins.

 

Maybe something to do with his, um, 'defense'?

[Brad Swanson]

Perhaps a move to first is in Plouffe's future?

[gunnarthor]

Justin Morneau OPS: .727

Trevor Plouffe OPS: .737

Justin Morneau salary: 15,000,000

Trevor Plouffe salary: 520,000

 

Out of these two Plouffe is the one in jeopardy of losing a roster spot? I know he means next year, it just baffles me how much negativity Plouffe gets from the Twins.

 

One has a slightly better track record than the other, is beloved by Twins fans, always seems to work hard and suffered injuries that wrecked his career. Some of that perception might not be fair but I think it's real. But I'm honestly not sure why you think Plouffe shouldn't be treated negatively by fans (not that I think he is). Is it just to be contrarian? He's had about 1000 ML PA and he's hit .239/.297/.423 97 OPS+. He's 27. He's been worth about 0 WAR for his career. While he has some pop, that's been about it so far.

 

I do actually think there might be reason for hope with Plouffe. A lot of hitters need about 1000 PA before they figure things out (although one hopes they'd be younger). Morneau's batting line, for instance, wasn't much better his first 1000 or so PA either (although he was a lot younger). But what's his ceiling at this point? A 2 WAR player? At age 28?

 

And the negativity was made by Souhan, not the Twins (unless we think the Twins used Souhan to send a message, which is certainly possible).

 

And Morny is in the last year of his contract so there wasn't really a reason to talk about him in the article.

[cmathewson]

Perhaps a move to first is in Plouffe's future?

 

They've tried him every place else. I thought perhaps left field.

[Oldgoat_MN]

I cannot see Sano or Rosario ready for MLB in April of next year. So much will depend on how these guys do in AA when they get moved there.

 

We DO need to see more of these young guys, but it's early yet. If they are not producing come July we can probably lift the SSS excuse.

[stringer bell]

Perhaps a move to first is in Plouffe's future?

If he hits and Sano develops at third, yes. I like Plouffe and hope he succeeds. He is oh so up and down though.

[70charger]

There are positives and negatives to all of these guys. Plouffe's got spotty defense and he's streaky, but his overall hitting stats are nothing to complain about. Dozier needs to show more at the plate, but he's really taken to second base. It's early on these guys, and we shouldn't be making plans to replace them with A ball players next year.

 

The only way I see Sano and/or Rosario up for a large chunk of time next year is an Arcia-type situation, where injuries open a spot and they grab it and don't let go. More likely, they won't be ready regardless of whether they get a short look on the 25-man, and the whole thing is probably a moot point for 2013/14.

 

Honestly, I think any average-ish major leaguer (or worse) should be constantly worried about their roster spot. But the ultimate hope is that Dozier, Plouffe, et. al. work out the kinks from their inexperience at the major league level, find some consistency, and become good everyday players. By late-2014/2015, if Sano and Rosario are as advertised, then we should take whatever Dozier/Plouffe/etc. get us in trade or be happy that we have competent backups. But we can't make any kind of solid plans for 2015 today when the guys being talked about as replacements haven't even hit AA.

[Physics Guy]

There are positives and negatives to all of these guys. Plouffe's got spotty defense and he's streaky, but his overall hitting stats are nothing to complain about. Dozier needs to show more at the plate, but he's really taken to second base. It's early on these guys, and we shouldn't be making plans to replace them with A ball players next year.

 

The only way I see Sano and/or Rosario up for a large chunk of time next year is an Arcia-type situation, where injuries open a spot and they grab it and don't let go. More likely, they won't be ready regardless of whether they get a short look on the 25-man, and the whole thing is probably a moot point for 2013/14.

 

Honestly, I think any average-ish major leaguer (or worse) should be constantly worried about their roster spot. But the ultimate hope is that Dozier, Plouffe, et. al. work out the kinks from their inexperience at the major league level, find some consistency, and become good everyday players. By late-2014/2015, if Sano and Rosario are as advertised, then we should take whatever Dozier/Plouffe/etc. get us in trade or be happy that we have competent backups. But we can't make any kind of solid plans for 2015 today when the guys being talked about as replacements haven't even hit AA.

 

Agreed with everything you said. Also, the more I read Souhan, the more I think he is a windbag. I just shook my head when he wrote his most recent article about the Wild. I think most realistic people felt making the playoffs would be an acceptable outcome. Huge roster turnover and no training camp. They raised expectations with their run in the middle of the season, but to expect them to go deep in the playoffs wasn't terribly realistic.

[amjgt]

Couldn't Adam Walker be viewed as a potential "2 years from now" 1B solution?

[jay]

The Twins lost 195 games the last two seasons. Time isn't running out on ANYONE who shows semblances of being a capable MLBer. Even projecting rapid promotions to get 'the wave' up here next year gives every single player mentioned plenty of time to either figure it out or become a part of baseball's natural attrition.

[Aaron Cross]

Who is Parmalee the stop-gap for? What 1B is there that is

less than 3 years away? I really don't know if there is one (though if you think Sano stays at 3B, I'd think Harrison or Kepler or someone could move to 1B)....

 

Mauer

[DaveW]

Justin Morneau OPS: .727

Trevor Plouffe OPS: .737

Justin Morneau salary: 15,000,000

Trevor Plouffe salary: 520,000

 

Out of these two Plouffe is the one in jeopardy of losing a roster spot? I know he means next year, it just baffles me how much negativity Plouffe gets from the Twins.

 

Come on dude, you know you are being ridiculous, Morneau is a free agent after this year and there is a good chance he wont be back unless its at a heavy discount and he continues to improve.

 

They don't hate on Plouffe they are frustrated that such a talent is going to waste, they are upset that he isn't living up to his potential. There is nothing wrong with expecting your former first round pick, and a guy who was on fire last year to give you at least above replacement level production for you in the field.

[DaveW]

Mauer

 

I think Mauer sticks at catcher for another 2-3 years at least. Also, besides corner OF 1st base is probably the easiest position to find a stop gap on the free agent/trade market. If he continues to improve his hitting and gets back close to a .775-.800 OPS then Morneau is a perfectly acceptable stop gap at 1st base for the next couple years (at 5 mil a year)

[Mike Sixel]

Mauer

 

Good point, I agree, I think.....if you mean starting next year or the year after.....but then who is the catcher the other 100-120 games?

[Kobs]

Who is Parmalee the stop-gap for? What 1B is there that is less than 3 years away? I really don't know if there is one (though if you think Sano stays at 3B, I'd think Harrison or Kepler or someone could move to 1B)....

 

I don't know why people have such a hard time grasping this, but the Twins' first baseman of the future already plays for the Twins. In fact, he's already logged 400+ innings at the position. He's also signed through 2018.

[Thrylos]

Couldn't Adam Walker be viewed as a potential "2 years from now" 1B solution?

 

let him play half a season at AA and then we can talk. And he is an OF not a first baseman. DJ Hicks is the first baseman in Cedar Rapids and he is pretty good with both the glove and the stick. But these guys need to prove themselves with better competition as they are older for the league in A ball. Hopefully they will move to Fort Meyers (sic) soon and then we can tell more.

[Thrylos]

And Souhan is trying (again) to make a point using:

 

- Batting averages

- ERAs

- in a small sample size

 

What's new?

(OK, RBIs and quality starts are missing, I suppose)

[fairweather]

Plouffe has been better defensively. I still am of the opinion that his future is in RF/DH. He's one of these guys that won't truly blossom until he gets on a team that tells him just hit for power and don't worry about this using the whole field non-sense.

[amjgt]

let him play half a season at AA and then we can talk. And he is an OF not a first baseman. DJ Hicks is the first baseman in Cedar Rapids and he is pretty good with both the glove and the stick. But these guys need to prove themselves with better competition as they are older for the league in A ball. Hopefully they will move to Fort Meyers (sic) soon and then we can tell more.

 

I realize this, but is it realistic for Walker to stick in the OF? Obviously, with prospects we're dealing with a fairly low hit-rate in terms of getting to the majors, but Walker seems like a prototype major league 1B (assuming he gets near his ceiling)

[Shane Wahl]

Souhan is ridiculous. Doesn't everyone understand this by now?

 

A. What is so wrong with Plouffe's performance this year?

B. Dozier has showed glimpses of offensive adequacy while being a middle infielder. And he has been a pretty good middle infielder.

C. Parmelee was MESSED WITH last year and now is being messed with again to some extent. I do agree that I don't think he is a long-term guy for the Twins and should be traded when he hits his peak this year (probably around deadline).

D. Worley is a good pitcher who has struggled so far in half of his starts. He is going to be just fine and can work into a GOOD team's rotation as the 4th or 5th starter. He has a lot ahead of him. If, by some point in 2014, Diamond and Worley are the 4th and 5th starters for this team, then all is going to be very good.

[Brodin4Calder]

Souhan is ridiculous. Doesn't everyone understand this by now?

 

A. What is so wrong with Plouffe's performance this year?

B. Dozier has showed glimpses of offensive adequacy while being a middle infielder. And he has been a pretty good middle infielder.

C. Parmelee was MESSED WITH last year and now is being messed with again to some extent. I do agree that I don't think he is a long-term guy for the Twins and should be traded when he hits his peak this year (probably around deadline).

D. Worley is a good pitcher who has struggled so far in half of his starts. He is going to be just fine and can work into a GOOD team's rotation as the 4th or 5th starter. He has a lot ahead of him. If, by some point in 2014, Diamond and Worley are the 4th and 5th starters for this team, then all is going to be very good.

 

I dont agree with A,B or D at all. Heres why-

 

First off how on earth can you actualy ask what is wrong with Plouffes performance? He hasnt shown really any improvement across the board since he joined the league. Hes hitting .239 which is around his career avg and I dont have to tell you thats sad. If he were to play the same amount of games this year as he did last year he would be on pace for less HRs, RBIs, BBs, SLG, OPS.... And he didnt even do well last year, he had 55RBIs on 24HRs because he can only hit Solo HRs. In all hes just a bad player that will be gone soon anyway unless he vastly improves and gets sent to right field.

 

 

Then theres Dozier, hes been pretty bad this year with the exception of a few games. I know hes barely played in the bigs so im not suggesting we call it quits on him just yet. He can be productive at the plate but his average is horrible at .226 and so is his OBP. Hes not a great fielder either. Hes just like Plouffe in the sense that they have the capability to be somewhat productive but in the end you dont want them on your team unless they are in RF batting at the bottom of the lineup.

 

Parmelee is the only one I agree with kinda. I dont think hes being messed with but I do agree hes not gonna be on this team for long.

 

D is the one I couldnt help but laugh and shake my head at the same time. I cant put into words how bad Worley is and how much I hate him. Pretty much every pitch he has is a meatball, I mean who doesnt want to bat against a guy thats fastest pitch is about 88mph? Thats truly sad. He doesnt have any pitches that standout, his command and control are awful, his composure is awful..... Hes just horrible. He doesnt belong anywhere above 5th in a roto.

 

Look man I respect your opinion but open your eyes for a minute and take a look at what you said. I know its been a rough stretch for us Twins fans the last couple years but hang on. Soon you will see a real baseball player in Sano take over for Plouffe and you will wonder how you thought plouffe was decent, then you will see Gibson and Meyer come up and throw in the mid 90s and get Ks and wonder how you thought Worley was good.

[snepp]

Plouffe has been a tiny bit better than a league average bat, and just a hair worse than a league average third baseman offensively. I think you need to ease up your "sad and bad" hyperbole a bit.

[Badsmerf]

Brodin, you lost me at solo HR's. If you can't see there is more to baseball than avg and RBI I have nothing to argue with you about.

 

Dave, I'm not being ridiculous. Besides Plouffe's defense (which is only highlighted by dumb mistakes) he is just fine. Right now he is a league average 3b. I'm fine with that. Especially considering he can improve over the year. I don't understand calling him out. I can see Dozier, Parmelee and Worley, but the constant negativity about Plouffe is just stupid.

[Top Gun]

Chris Parmelee is 3-for-22 (.136) over his last eight games.

 

A lone double counts as his only extra-base hit during that stretch. It's an awful time for Parmelee to scuffle, as Oswaldo Arcia has clearly passed him on the depth chart, relegating himself and Ryan Doumit into a platoon. If Parmelee (.214/.301/.337) continues to hit like an injured utility player, he may find himself in the business class on a flight to Rochester soon.

[Rube]

Also, the more I read Souhan, the more I think he is a windbag.

 

I couldn't agree more! Souhan is a hack. He knows very little about sports in general, but especially little about baseball. He's just trying to generate controversy in an attempt to get someone to read his drivel.

[Mike Sixel]

Yup, Plouffe is about league average. That's how great teams win, they have minumum wage league average guys, and spend big on elite players. Winning has been bad for Parmalee. If they were losing, they could have him playing more DH or something. They really needed him to play a lot this year to see what they had. Dozier needs to hit a bit more for my taste, but he's probably a utility guy once Rosario is up, and he'll be fine/good in that role. Worley is a bummer to me. I was thinking he'd have an ERA (or whatever advanced stat you want to use) around average or just better than average for a starter this year. Gotta leave him out there all year to see what you have.....I think. But if he pitches like this, he's a swing man at best. I remain hopeful, though, that he'll get better. Not sure why, but I do.