So, about that pitching pipeline…

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

Your second paragraph is once again misrepresenting the situation, as you did with the White Sox example you tried earlier.  The Twins have played 29 games.  At least 12 of them have been against meh to good teams.  Another 4 depends on what you consider the Boston Red Sox.  You continue to misrepresent how bad some of the teams we're playing are based on a small sample so it can feed your argument.  I don't think that's fair.

Boston is 10-19 and just dropped a series to Baltimore, no, they're not a good team, at least right now. 

The ChiSox imploded in Cleveland (swept in 4 games) then continued to boot the ball around in MN, committing 4 errors in 3 games, and literally threw one of those games away. They also dropped their next series in KC. What's being misrepresented? Are you arguing that they were playing good baseball at the time? I certainly expect them to be better than they have been, but that doesn't mean they weren't a clown show when they showed up in Minneapolis. 

Maybe you have more faith in Detroit, KC, Oakland, or Baltimore turning things around. I don't think it's unfair for me to expect them to more of less maintain the status quo. Arguing SSS is a double edged sword. 

[TheLeviathan]

19 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Boston is 10-19 and just dropped a series to Baltimore, no, they're not a good team, at least right now. 

The ChiSox imploded in Cleveland (swept in 4 games) then continued to boot the ball around in MN, committing 4 errors in 3 games, and literally threw one of those games away. They also dropped their next series in KC. What's being misrepresented? Are you arguing that they were playing good baseball at the time? I certainly expect them to be better than they have been, but that doesn't mean they weren't a clown show when they showed up in Minneapolis. 

Maybe you have more faith in Detroit, KC, Oakland, or Baltimore turning things around. I don't think it's unfair for me to expect them to more of less maintain the status quo. Arguing SSS is a double edged sword. 

We were 5-8 coming off a series in which we lost 2 of 3 to the hideous Royals when we played the 6-6 ChiSox.  Presenting that scenario as us, the mighty Twins, beating on the bad ChiSox is obviously a misrepresentation.  It's stacking the deck for your argument.  It was a battle of two struggling teams and we righted our ship while burying them.

The Twins don't get to decide when teams show up as a clown show.  I don't think Boston is a 10-19 team like the other four you mention.  And if that's right, that means that 17 of the team's 29 games have been against teams who are roughly .500 (Seattle, Boston) or better (ChiSox, Tampa, Dodgers).  That's what I think we can typically expect: about 40% of our games against trash teams, 30% against teams under or around .500, and 30% against legit competition.  Meaning, this wasn't an easy stretch....it's what playing in the AL in 2022 is going to be like.  If we take care of business, the path forward is pretty good.

 

[RpR]

40 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Boston is 10-19 and just dropped a series to Baltimore, no, they're not a good team, at least right now. 

 

Balitmore took a series from the Yankees, including a 5-0 shut-out, so do not be so sure.

[PseudoSABR]

Others have touched upon this; but the offseason strategy of investing in veteran bridges of 1 to 2 years seems prescient as this point in the season.  Many wanted the Twins to spend on a frontline starter (or 2-3), but the Twins went with Bundy and Archer in FA, and traded for Gray and Paddack (2 years control).  The FO had a good faith based belief in their minor league depth--what they didn't know is how soon it would arrive.  

[Major League Ready]

14 hours ago, PseudoSABR said:

Others have touched upon this; but the offseason strategy of investing in veteran bridges of 1 to 2 years seems prescient as this point in the season.  Many wanted the Twins to spend on a frontline starter (or 2-3), but the Twins went with Bundy and Archer in FA, and traded for Gray and Paddack (2 years control).  The FO had a good faith based belief in their minor league depth--what they didn't know is how soon it would arrive.  

Some of the free agent SPs promoted here have been good (Scherzer / Rodon / Gausman).  Scherzer just was not feasible.  Rodon and Gausman have been great, but I still don't know the risk associated with those contracts make sense given how good our pipeline looks.  Robbie Ray and Eduardo Rodriguez have been mediocre with a 4.38 / 4.50 ERA but he would not be making a difference.  Stroman and Jon Gray have been pretty bad.  Those contracts would be a bit of a disaster right now.

The bottom line is that pipeline is looking very real.  We should be in the ideal position going forward.  Having a homegrown staff opens many possibilities for filling any gaps needed to build a contender.  Ryan / Winder and Ober for the next 6 years plus Paddack for 3 puts us in great shape for starters.  Duran / Jax and even Acala for that matter still need to be proven but they look great too.  Add Balazovic or Canterino or both to the rotation and we are in phenomenal shape where pitching is concerned.  I have not been this optimistic about  the probability of sustained success for a long time.

[KirbyDome89]

5 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

We were 5-8 coming off a series in which we lost 2 of 3 to the hideous Royals when we played the 6-6 ChiSox.  Presenting that scenario as us, the mighty Twins, beating on the bad ChiSox is obviously a misrepresentation.  It's stacking the deck for your argument.  It was a battle of two struggling teams and we righted our ship while burying them.

The Twins don't get to decide when teams show up as a clown show.  I don't think Boston is a 10-19 team like the other four you mention.  And if that's right, that means that 17 of the team's 29 games have been against teams who are roughly .500 (Seattle, Boston) or better (ChiSox, Tampa, Dodgers).  That's what I think we can typically expect: about 40% of our games against trash teams, 30% against teams under or around .500, and 30% against legit competition.  Meaning, this wasn't an easy stretch....it's what playing in the AL in 2022 is going to be like.  If we take care of business, the path forward is pretty good.

 

No clue where this "Twins juggernaut," stuff is coming from. If you're admitting that the ChiSox were badly scuffling, then what am I misrepresenting? Honestly. All I said was MN caught them at the right time, and now you've stated yourself that Chicago was struggling coming into the series. 

No, they don't, and I've said as much. That's fine, Boston might not be by season's end, but they've certainly played like one of those trash teams to start the year. If I chose to include them in that category based on their start, I'm stacking the deck for my argument, but if you opt to move them because you expect things to turn around at some point in the future that's fair game?

That breakdown also ignores the aforementioned 18 game stretch against Oakland, Detroit, and KC to close this month, but I'm over arguing about which way the pie is sliced. 

[Number3]

Speaking of pitching, how about Verlander, 3-1, 1.93 going against Ryan, 3-1, 1.63. Now that is a matchup and it seems that when Verlander was with the Tigers that version of the Twins always gave him a battle. Anyone going tonight? Should be perfect weather to boot.

[Unwinder]

56 minutes ago, Number3 said:

Speaking of pitching, how about Verlander, 3-1, 1.93 going against Ryan, 3-1, 1.63. Now that is a matchup and it seems that when Verlander was with the Tigers that version of the Twins always gave him a battle. Anyone going tonight? Should be perfect weather to boot.

I'm very tempted

[cheeseheadgophfan]

I really hope they just make Duran the closer and stick with it.  I know all the arguments about the value of a closer, but baseball is a human game and losing a game when you lead in the 9th in deflating.  And it has carryover.  I hope Duran becomes the next Mariano Rivera both in terms of dominance and in the way that the Yankees were never afraid to use him for 2 inning saves.  I know he struggled in the game against Baltimore but in my lifetime of Twins closers, I've never been so relaxed watching a guy close out a game....what a pleasure.