2021 Vikings Season Thread

[Mike Sixel]

Kirk and Thielen throwing shade on the coaching...... About time. 

[Mike Sixel]

22 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I don’t have the stats to back it up, but I’m quite confident Kirk Cousins attempted more passes to Dallas’ bench than our own players tonight. The fact that he threw it to their bench for the final play shows he’s in it for himself. God forbid his stat line shows him throwing a pick when the game was on the line. He’s a loser. Always will be a loser. 

He literally led the team on winning drives several times this year..... He's not close to the biggest issue. Not close. 

[Mike Sixel]

28 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I’m still giving a slice of blame to Spielman. He had to know that players who refuse to get vaccinated are not the type to put the team first and make winning their top priority. He employs more of these players than anyone in the league, and the lack of heart shows.

Also, a decade in and still no sniff of a competent O line.

Not to absolve Zimmer if anything. This is unwatchable football.

I agree. I've said to blow it up for a couple years now. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

[Vanimal46]

15 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

He literally led the team on winning drives several times this year..... He's not close to the biggest issue. Not close. 

10 year veteran QB still relies on a HC to handle timeouts. What a leader. 

[stringer bell]

15 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

He literally led the team on winning drives several times this year..... He's not close to the biggest issue. Not close. 

Cousins isn’t in the top tier of QBs, but he’s above average. He’s got really good tools to work with, but he’s a guy (IMHO) who I wouldn’t count on to win a game when they shouldn’t. Worth the money? I’m not so sure. 

[nicksaviking]

I don’t think Cousins has the attributes, to win a Super Bowl. But this team should still be 6-1 with him either way.

[USAFChief]

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

10 year veteran QB still relies on a HC to handle timeouts. What a leader. 

Head coach retains control of TOs and STILL manages to screw up at least every other game. 

 

Don't blame Cousins. 

[TheLeviathan]

7 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I don’t think Cousins has the attributes, to win a Super Bowl. But this team should still be 6-1 with him either way.

Yeah...coaching has been a serious problem.  The Cowboys were gifting you a win and you blew it.  Time to reset the organization.

[nicksaviking]

6 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Head coach retains control of TOs and STILL manages to screw up at least every other game. 

 

Don't blame Cousins. 

I'll certainly blame Zimmer since he was capable of calling a time out and is supposed to be the one with the final call.

But Aaron Rodgers would have never let his doofus coach Mike McCarthy run out the time like that; he would have taken the initiative.

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

I'll certainly blame Zimmer since he was capable of calling a time out and is supposed to be the one with the final call.

But Aaron Rodgers would have never let his doofus coach Mike McCarthy run out the time like that; he would have taken the initiative.

100%. Do we really believe Zimmer is such an ego maniac that a 10 year veteran QB is not allowed to call time outs? He needs to take responsibility and be aware of the situation as well. 

[LVTwinsfan]

The Vikings could easily lose the next 4 games. But I think they will win 1 of the next four so 4-7 after 11 games. Anything better than that is a bonus

[LVTwinsfan]

6 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

100%. Do we really believe Zimmer is such an ego maniac that a 10 year veteran QB is not allowed to call time outs? He needs to take responsibility and be aware of the situation as well. 

Maybe Zimmer realized what we all knew, the game was over

[LVTwinsfan]

If Cousins excuse is that he lets the coach call the TO’s, then he’s not really a leader and definitely part of the problem

 

[nicksaviking]

38 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

100%. Do we really believe Zimmer is such an ego maniac that a 10 year veteran QB is not allowed to call time outs? He needs to take responsibility and be aware of the situation as well. 

Also, what the hell is Klint Kubiak doing during this nonsense? He's in both Zimmer's and Cousins' ear. Is he not suggesting a timeout is prudent because he's also clueless? Or does he just not have the guts to correct Zimmer? Considering this is the most Zimmer-y offense we've ever seen, I'd guess it's the latter.

[Vanimal46]

Yikes. 

[nicksaviking]

37 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Yikes. 

Dang, there goes the trophy.

But seriously, good luck to Hunter. 

[LVTwinsfan]

45 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Yikes. 

Well I don’t see how they could get much worse, whether they win 3 more or none, doesn’t make much difference

[Mike Sixel]

I don't LOVE Cousins....but he does what the boss wants. Just as the offensive coordinators do.

I guess we could hold him to the standards of Rogers....but that is an insanely high standard. If that's your standard, you are likely to be disappointed.

Cousins is a 2nd tier QB. That's good enough, with good coaching, to win playoff games. With great players and coaching, to win super bowls.

This team has a few great players on O (and 1 or two on D)...but the coaching is severely lacking. Am I convinced this is a very good to great team with different coaching? No. Am I convinced it will never be with this coaching? Yes.

[Mike Sixel]

Dang, good luck to Hunter. I hate injuries in sports.

[nicksaviking]

35 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I don't LOVE Cousins....but he does what the boss wants. Just as the offensive coordinators do.

I guess we could hold him to the standards of Rogers....but that is an insanely high standard. If that's your standard, you are likely to be disappointed.

Cousins is a 2nd tier QB. That's good enough, with good coaching, to win playoff games. With great players and coaching, to win super bowls.

This team has a few great players on O (and 1 or two on D)...but the coaching is severely lacking. Am I convinced this is a very good to great team with different coaching? No. Am I convinced it will never be with this coaching? Yes.

I'm of the mind that the only way Cousins would win a Super Bowl is if the team had an all time elite defense. I don't think he's terribly bright or focused. I'm with you, I'll still lay the blame on Zimmer for not calling that timeout, but Super Bowl winning QBs are aware enough to make that call on their own if needed. 

And it's not just that one failed timeout. So much of what Cousins does and says makes it seem like he's either out for himself or incapable of making quick and correct decisions on his own.

And I'd say if you don't have a top tier QB, then getting one should be your top priority, because that's the easiest path to winning a Super Bowl. Sitting on a 2nd tier QB seems like you're just content enough to win enough games to save your job.

[Mike Sixel]

11 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm of the mind that the only way Cousins would win a Super Bowl is if the team had an all time elite defense. I don't think he's terribly bright or focused. I'm with you, I'll still lay the blame on Zimmer for not calling that timeout, but Super Bowl winning QBs are aware enough to make that call on their own if needed. 

And it's not just that one failed timeout. So much of what Cousins does and says makes it seem like he's either out for himself or incapable of making quick and correct decisions on his own.

And I'd say if you don't have a top tier QB, then getting one should be your top priority, because that's the easiest path to winning a Super Bowl. Sitting on a 2nd tier QB seems like you're just content enough to win enough games to save your job.

"easiest path"....there are how many humans on the planet that are top tier QBs? Five at a time? Seven? out of billions of people, there may be 7 or so at a time. I'd argue the pursuit of the perfect QB is what holds franchises back so much. If you get one, great. If not, great minds should be able to come up with other paths.

Of course, much like the Rays' success in baseball, that other path is almost impossible to find. If the perfect QB is the only answer, then the only answer is to tank for a couple years and trade players for future picks, to get a top 5 pick, then pick correctly (and yes, many great QBs fall further than that, but good luck getting those later picks right).

[nicksaviking]

52 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

"easiest path"....there are how many humans on the planet that are top tier QBs? Five at a time? Seven? out of billions of people, there may be 7 or so at a time. I'd argue the pursuit of the perfect QB is what holds franchises back so much. If you get one, great. If not, great minds should be able to come up with other paths.

Of course, much like the Rays' success in baseball, that other path is almost impossible to find. If the perfect QB is the only answer, then the only answer is to tank for a couple years and trade players for future picks, to get a top 5 pick, then pick correctly (and yes, many great QBs fall further than that, but good luck getting those later picks right).

But it's not five out of a billion, it's five out of 32 teams as all five of those guys will be somewhere in the NFL. So that's basically a 16% chance of having one of the elite QBs, yet the Vikings haven't been in that 16% since 2009.

It's not a high percentage, but it seems higher than finding 11 elite defensive players. And a good coaching staff.

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

But it's not five out of a billion, it's five out of 32 teams as all five of those guys will be somewhere in the NFL. So that's basically a 16% chance of having one of the elite QBs, yet the Vikings haven't been in that 16% since 2009.

It's not a high percentage, but it seems higher than finding 11 elite defensive players. And a good coaching staff.

Good luck. Look at Tua so far.......or even this year's rookies. There just aren't that many QBs out there. And picking the right one is not easy. 

It would be great if they found one, but they'll have to lose out (or nearly so) to even have a likely shot at one. Which they won't do as they have the Bears and Lions still on their schedule. 6-7 wins might be too many to have that shot this year. Might.

[nicksaviking]

22 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Good luck. Look at Tua so far.......or even this year's rookies. There just aren't that many QBs out there. And picking the right one is not easy. 

It would be great if they found one, but they'll have to lose out (or nearly so) to even have a likely shot at one. Which they won't do as they have the Bears and Lions still on their schedule. 6-7 wins might be too many to have that shot this year. Might.

Well it's not just the fans, everyone in the league knows it's better to have two wins than it is to have seven. 

Better for everyone except the GM and HC who would do anything to save their jobs that is.

I'd say there are 6-8 QBs playing at an elite level right now, with Buffalo, Arizona, Green Bay and Tampa all leading their divisions and probably the SB favorites. Add Dallas, Baltimore and the Rams to that mix depending on how one feels about their QBs being elite. KC is the only team with an elite QB and still struggling, but I doubt anyone has written them off yet.  These are also probably the only teams anyone seriously thinks can win it all as well.

Three of those team's QBs were their team's top 10 picks, two were low first round picks, one was a forth round pick, one was traded and one was signed as a free agent. Getting top picks is obviously preferred, but it's not the only way.

[USAFChief]

4 hours ago, LVTwinsfan said:

If Cousins excuse is that he lets the coach call the TO’s, then he’s not really a leader and definitely part of the problem

 

Excuse??

If the head coach says "I call the TOs," you expect the QB to ignore that?

 

Was it also Cousins' fault when the Vikings were penalized for calling consecutive TOs on 3rd and 16 on the Cowboys last drive? 

Sheesh.

[Vanimal46]

41 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Excuse??

If the head coach says "I call the TOs," you expect the QB to ignore that?

 

Was it also Cousins' fault when the Vikings were penalized for calling consecutive TOs on 3rd and 16 on the Cowboys last drive? 

Sheesh.

The 2nd paragraph has nothing to do with what you replied to. You truly believe Zimmer is that much of a control freak to not allow a 10 year veteran QB call a timeout? If so, my goodness, we need to fire him immediately. 

[nicksaviking]

42 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

The 2nd paragraph has nothing to do with what you replied to. You truly believe Zimmer is that much of a control freak to not allow a 10 year veteran QB call a timeout? If so, my goodness, we need to fire him immediately. 

I have no idea about the QB/HC dynamic when it comes to calling timeouts.

But I do know that I regularly see other QBs calling timeouts on the field. So if Cousins isn't allowed to, I'd like to know why. If he is allowed to but doesn't, I'd also like to know why.

[Vanimal46]

16 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I have no idea about the QB/HC dynamic when it comes to calling timeouts.

But I do know that I regularly see other QBs calling timeouts on the field. So if Cousins isn't allowed to, I'd like to know why. If he is allowed to but doesn't, I'd also like to know why.

Exactly. Kirk saying it’s up to Zimmer/Kubiak to call plays and timeouts is the equivalent of us saying “I don’t know, I just work here.” 

He’s 33 years old and started over 100 NFL games. Yet he still acts like a 4th round rookie player. 

[RpR]

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Excuse??

If the head coach says "I call the TOs," you expect the QB to ignore that?

 

Was it also Cousins' fault when the Vikings were penalized for calling consecutive TOs on 3rd and 16 on the Cowboys last drive? 

Sheesh.

HE should know that is illegal and say no, REGARDLESS of what any coach says' this is not pee-wee football with little boys doing as told.