Kepner (NY Times): Ryan Looks to recapture past success

[Seth Stohs]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/22/sports/baseball/twins-terry-ryan-looks-to-recapture-past-success.html?smid=tw-nytimessports&seid=auto

 

A terrific article on Terry Ryan from Tyler Kepner of the NY Times.

 

“You’d read throughout the various markets: ‘We want to be like the Twins,’ ” Ryan said. “I used to take a lot of pride in that statement. That’s good to hear. Right now we don’t have anybody saying that. That’s not good — and we don’t deserve to have that said about us.”

 

“I know he’s doing anything and everything he can to get us back to where we need to get to,” said catcher Joe Mauer, whose eight-year, $180 million contract runs through 2018. “That’s enough for me. He’s a guy that’s been there and done it before, and I signed here because I believe that we can win here. That hasn’t changed.”

[Seth Stohs]

Here's a great comment that verifies the definition of Pitch to Contact...

 

Anderson said he stopped using the phrase “pitch to contact,” because too many people — in uniform and out — misunderstood it. All he really emphasizes, he said, is getting ahead in the count and attacking the strike zone.

[Thrylos]

Yeah, Ryan has to re-capture the success of his multiple World Series winners.

 

Sad to hear those quotes from Mauer:

back to where we need to get to,” said catcher Joe Mauer, whose eight-year, $180 million contract runs through 2018. “That’s enough for me. He’s a guy that’s been there and done it before,

 

Unless you strive to win it all, you will never win it. If you strive for the mediocrity that the Twins were this Millennium (which, yes is better than the previous horrid Ryan years) you will never win.

 

I wonder how many New Yorkers (since that article was published there) would love it, if their Yankees had the same results as the Twins this Millennium.

[twinsnorth49]

Yeah, Ryan has to re-capture the success of his multiple World Series winners.

 

Sad to hear those quotes from Mauer:

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Unless you strive to win it all, you will never win it. If you strive for the mediocrity that the Twins were this Millennium (which, yes is better than the previous horrid Ryan years) you will never win.

 

I wonder how many New Yorkers (since that article was published there) would love it, if their Yankees had the same results as the Twins this Millennium.

 

Everyone strives to win it all, first you need to strive to be able to put yourself in that position on a consistant basis. Ryan and Gardy did just that and when their teams did, only an outright fool would believe they weren't striving to win it all.

 

His teams quit on him? That's a grand, agenda driven assumption with no basis in fact or common sense. I have no issue with you wanting these guys fired but stop just making s**t up.

[Thrylos]

His teams quit on him? That's a grand, agenda driven assumption with no basis in fact or common sense. I have no issue with you wanting these guys fired but stop just making s**t up.

 

Look at the Mauer quotes. He said that he wanted to get "back" (like win a weak division and then one and out) instead of saying that he wanted to bring a World Series trophy again to the Twin Cities. Are you not bothered by that? I am. And unless Twins' fans are bothered by the attitutes of managers/GMs/Owners/Presidents/Stars that mediocrity is ok, the Twins will never win (a World Series) again. And that is that. I'd love to hear someone associated with the Twins to say that: Yes we are striving to win the World Series. (again. Last person who said it out loud was Andy McPhail)

 

Find me a single reference of Gardy and/or Terry saying that their goal is to win the World Series and I will shut up.

 

Good luck.

[old nurse]

Look at the Mauer quotes. He said that he wanted to get "back" (like win a weak division and then one and out) instead of saying that he wanted to bring a World Series trophy again to the Twin Cities. Are you not bothered by that? I am. And unless Twins' fans are bothered by the attitutes of managers/GMs/Owners/Presidents/Stars that mediocrity is ok, the Twins will never win (a World Series) again. And that is that. I'd love to hear someone associated with the Twins to say that: Yes we are striving to win the World Series. (again. Last person who said it out loud was Andy McPhail)

 

Find me a single reference of Gardy and/or Terry saying that their goal is to win the World Series and I will shut up.

 

Good luck.

 

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/162539516.html?refer=y

joe mauer as told to Sid

[Willihammer]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I will probably write about this soon. I think before we pass judgment on Gardy's handling of the 2002-2010 Twins playoffs teams, or laud Jr for putting together the cores that made those playoff appearances possible, it would help to understand just how good those teams really were. And then figure out if we really do want to try to get "back" to that, or not.

 

John wrote earlier in the offseason how history says that playoffs are almost totally random. Success in any given series is similar to a binary probability (50/50). In other words, regular season success (or lack thereof) shouldn't translate into playoff success, and vice versa.

 

Yet, the Twins made 6 playoff appearances in a 10 year span, and won 1 series in 7. That's like saying the Twins flipped a coin 7 times, and got heads once. There's worse than a 1/18 chance that you'll get just one heads in a 7-flip trial.

 

They played 27 playoff games in the 00s. They were outscored 140-82. They won 6 games, Pythagoras says they should have won 7.

 

So I suspect there's more to the Twins playoff failures. I suspect that, after you adjust for difficulty of schedule, you find a team that wasn't really a 50/50 coin flip to win a given playoff division.

[twinsnorth49]

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/162539516.html?refer=y

joe mauer as told to Sid

 

Good find Nurse, this quote is pretty much exactly what I was saying before, put yourself in position and then strive for the pinnacle.

 

"It's tough. We've had a lot of success here, and we really haven't played that well the last couple seasons. It's frustrating, and we're trying to get back to what we're used to and that's going to the playoffs and trying to get to our ultimate goal of winning a World Series. We haven't been playing very well, but hopefully we can turn that around."

[old nurse]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I will probably write about this soon. I think before we pass judgment on Gardy's handling of the 2002-2010 Twins playoffs teams, or laud Jr for putting together the cores that made those playoff appearances possible, it would help to understand just how good those teams really were. And then figure out if we really do want to try to get "back" to that, or not.

 

John wrote earlier in the offseason how history says that playoffs are almost totally random. Success in any given series is similar to a binary probability (50/50). In other words, regular season success (or lack thereof) shouldn't translate into playoff success, and vice versa.

 

Yet, the Twins made 6 playoff appearances in a 10 year span, and won 1 series in 7. That's like saying the Twins flipped a coin 7 times, and got heads once. There's worse than a 1/18 chance that you'll get just one heads in a 7-flip trial.

 

They played 27 playoff games in the 00s. They were outscored 140-82. They won 6 games, Pythagoras says they should have won 7.

 

So I suspect there's more to the Twins playoff failures. I suspect that, after you adjust for difficulty of schedule, you find a team that wasn't really a 50/50 coin flip to win a given playoff division.

 

The people say it is random when their second favorite team behind the Twins loses a close series. However, I thought youwere enough of a stats guy to know that a coin flip will even out over time but 7 is a small sample size. Also from year to year the cast of players changes on every team so it is not equivalent to a coin flip.

[twinsnorth49]

You don't end up with those kind of numbers through simply underachieving and poor managing, you get them by not being talented enough. I'd like to get back to where we were but not what we were, we need deeper talent next time around. Having said that, the next time may just be one of those "lightning in a bottle" times that characterize the playoffs.

[Seth Stohs]

I'm 100% comfortable with Mauer's comments... he doesn't like losing. he wants to win. He wants to get back to the playoffs because you can't win a World Series title without going to the playoffs. Anyone who reads any more into those quotes is definitely over-thinking and simply has an agenda... And, thank you to "old nurse" for finding that other quote because it resulted in positive things!

[70charger]

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/162539516.html?refer=y

joe mauer as told to Sid

 

Wow, that took literally several minutes. Guess it means no one on the Twins cares.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled Gardy-bashing.

[Nick Nelson]

Unless you strive to win it all, you will never win it. If you strive for the mediocrity that the Twins were this Millennium (which, yes is better than the previous horrid Ryan years) you will never win.

 

I wonder how many New Yorkers (since that article was published there) would love it, if their Yankees had the same results as the Twins this Millennium.

Good lord, are you going to take every single quote posted on this board and spin it as proof that the Twins don't want to win a World Series?

 

There is not a single player or coach in all of baseball that does not desperately want to win the World Series -- I can pretty much guarantee you that. It's time to put your bizarre obsession with this absurd notion to rest, or at least keep it to yourself.

[kirbyelway]

Look at the Mauer quotes. He said that he wanted to get "back" (like win a weak division and then one and out) instead of saying that he wanted to bring a World Series trophy again to the Twin Cities. Are you not bothered by that? I am. And unless Twins' fans are bothered by the attitutes of managers/GMs/Owners/Presidents/Stars that mediocrity is ok, the Twins will never win (a World Series) again. And that is that. I'd love to hear someone associated with the Twins to say that: Yes we are striving to win the World Series. (again. Last person who said it out loud was Andy McPhail)

 

Find me a single reference of Gardy and/or Terry saying that their goal is to win the World Series and I will shut up.

 

Good luck.

 

Just curious.....Are you the same guy that had the inside info that Scott Baker was signing here? I really believe every person in baseball wants to win the World Series. To say that Gardy or TR don't is just being ignorant!

[Squirrel]

Good lord, are you going to take every single quote posted on this board and spin it as proof that the Twins don't want to win a World Series?

 

There is not a single player or coach in all of baseball that does not desperately want to win the World Series -- I can pretty much guarantee you that. It's time to put your bizarre obsession with this absurd notion to rest, or at least keep it to yourself.

 

Thank you.

[fairweather]

I hate Joe Mauer.

[snepp]

I hate raw onions.

[fairweather]

We can all tell how much Joe Mauer wants to win! Look at all the passion he plays with. Look at all the emotion he shows. Look at the high level of accountability he brings to the clubhouse. Look at the way Joe rises in key moments and gets game winning hits. Oh wait he doesn't do any of those things that Mr. Puckett did. 23 million dollar leader who's scared of his own shadow.

[Mike Sixel]

I gotta say, picking those quotes apart is unrealistic. There is nothing there about accepting mediocrity. As for Mauer's leadership ability, we really have no idea at all.....

[grover738]

IMO, it is all about just getting to the playoffs. Once you're there, you might get hot and make a run. I'd argue that a look at the recent world series winners shows you just have to get there.

 

2012 - Giants - tied for 3rd best record in NL.

2011 - Cardinals - 4th best record in NL

2010 - Giants - 2nd best record in NL, 92 wins

2009 - NYY - best record in AL

2008 - Phillies - 2nd best record in NL

2007 - Red Sox - 2nd best record in AL

2006 - Cardinals - 4th best record in NL

2005 - White Sox - best record in AL

2004 - Red Sox - 2nd best record in AL

2003 - Florida - 3rd best record in NL

 

So over the last 10 years, the "worst" team to make the playoffs (from the league that won) has won the world series as often as the best team. Baseball playoffs are a crap shoot. Any team can beat any other team in a 7 games series, even more so in a 5 game series. Just because the twins didn't win it all during their recent run of success doesn't mean they were doing anything wrong, it just means that it didn't happen.

[Mike Sixel]

Which is why the real best team is the team with the best regular season record. the playoffs don't indicate the best team very well at all, frankly. No playoffs do.

[Willihammer]

You don't end up with those kind of numbers through simply underachieving and poor managing, you get them by not being talented enough. I'd like to get back to where we were but not what we were, we need deeper talent next time around. Having said that, the next time may just be one of those "lightning in a bottle" times that characterize the playoffs.

 

This is my thought as well. I think its strange that Gardy is the one with his feet to the fire when for most of those teams, JR was the GM in charge of filling out his roster. Seems a little one-sided to me. That's my only quibble.

[nicksaviking]

IMO, it is all about just getting to the playoffs. Once you're there, you might get hot and make a run. I'd argue that a look at the recent world series winners shows you just have to get there.

 

2012 - Giants - tied for 3rd best record in NL.

2011 - Cardinals - 4th best record in NL

2010 - Giants - 2nd best record in NL, 92 wins

2009 - NYY - best record in AL

2008 - Phillies - 2nd best record in NL

2007 - Red Sox - 2nd best record in AL

2006 - Cardinals - 4th best record in NL

2005 - White Sox - best record in AL

2004 - Red Sox - 2nd best record in AL

2003 - Florida - 3rd best record in NL

 

So over the last 10 years, the "worst" team to make the playoffs (from the league that won) has won the world series as often as the best team. Baseball playoffs are a crap shoot. Any team can beat any other team in a 7 games series, even more so in a 5 game series. Just because the twins didn't win it all during their recent run of success doesn't mean they were doing anything wrong, it just means that it didn't happen.

 

It's not a crap shoot, every one of those teams save perhaps the 2011 Cardinals had a better top of the rotaion than any the Twins sent to the playoffs. You need great pitching, particularly guys with dominating stuff. Only the 2011 Cardinals and 2005 White Sox had staffs that weren't full of strikeout artists.

[Longdistancetwins]

It's not a crap shoot, every one of those teams save perhaps the 2011 Cardinals had a better top of the rotaion than any the Twins sent to the playoffs. You need great pitching, particularly guys with dominating stuff. Only the 2011 Cardinals and 2005 White Sox had staffs that weren't full of strikeout artists.

 

Good point, and the quality of pitching was alluded to in the piece. Anyway, thanks for pointing the article out. I'm in New York and am not used to looking in the Times for Twins news.

[twinsnorth49]

I hate Joe Mauer.

 

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/swearing/i-hate-you-smiley-emoticon.gif......................what's this about again?

[bird]

Well, of COURSE the Twins are striving for mediocrity. What bugs me is that they could strive for putridity instead, and I'm angry and hateful about this, and have been all Millenium. I think I'll call someone names.

[grover738]

It's not a crap shoot, every one of those teams save perhaps the 2011 Cardinals had a better top of the rotaion than any the Twins sent to the playoffs. You need great pitching, particularly guys with dominating stuff. Only the 2011 Cardinals and 2005 White Sox had staffs that weren't full of strikeout artists.

 

Ok, let's look at strikeouts, in my book the best measure of "dominating stuff". Let's compare the team that won the world series to the other 3 teams that made the playoffs from their league in each of the last 10 years:

 

2012 - Giants - 3rd out of the 4 NL playoff teams

2011 - Cardinals - 3rd out of the 4 NL playoff teams

2010 - Giants - 1st out of the 4 NL playoff teams

2009 - NYY - 1st out of the 4 NL playoff teams

2008 - Phillies - 4th out of the 4 NL playoff teams

2007 - Red Sox - Tied for 1st out of 4 AL playoff teams

2006 - Cardinals - 4th out of the 4 NL playoff teams

2005 - White Sox - 2nd out of the 4 AL playoff teams

2004 - Red Sox - 2nd out of the 4 AL playoff teams

2003 - Florida - 2nd out of the 4 NL playoff teams

 

So, 3rd, 3rd, 1st, 1st, 4th, 4th, T1st, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd. See a pattern? I don't. It's random. Because it's a crap shoot. 162 games determines the best teams. 5 & 7 game series determine the world series champ. Just get to the playoffs, anything could happen. Just because it didn't happen for the Twins doesn't mean they were built wrong. It just means they didn't win it all. Everyone wants a reason, sometimes there is no reason.

 

There seems to be this belief that the only way you win a world series with with a dominant #1 and/or #2 starter who strikes out a ton of people and carries the team to victory, winning the MVP. The only examples I could find of this happening in the last 20 years was the 1995 Braves (Glavine) the 2001 Diamondbacks (Schilling & Johnson) and the 2003 Marlins (Beckett).

 

Hamels won the MVP in 2008, but only struck out 8 guys in 13 innings. Livian Hernandez won it in 1997 with 7 strikeouts in 13.6 innings. Heck, in 1991 Jack Morris only struck out 9 guys in 23 innings, for a Blackburnish K/9 rate of 3.5. Think a K/9 rate of 3.5 would produce an ERA of 1.17 over a 162 game season? It did over 3 starts in October of 1991.

 

Meanwhile, guys like David Freese, Edgar Renteria, David Eckstein, Jermaine Dye, Scott Brosius and Pat Borders have won world series MVPs. Why? Because anything can happen in 7 games.

[ThePuck]

Meanwhile, guys like David Freese, Edgar Renteria, David Eckstein, Jermaine Dye, Scott Brosius and Pat Borders have won world series MVPs. Why? Because anything can happen in 7 games.

 

It's been a long time since we got to a 7 game series to find out...or a 4th game of a 5 game series for that matter... :-)

[Riverbrian]

Ok, let's look at strikeouts, in my book the best measure of "dominating stuff". Let's compare the team that won the world series to the other 3 teams that made the playoffs from their league in each of the last 10 years:

 

2012 - Giants - 3rd out of the 4 NL playoff teams

2011 - Cardinals - 3rd out of the 4 NL playoff teams

2010 - Giants - 1st out of the 4 NL playoff teams

2009 - NYY - 1st out of the 4 NL playoff teams

2008 - Phillies - 4th out of the 4 NL playoff teams

2007 - Red Sox - Tied for 1st out of 4 AL playoff teams

2006 - Cardinals - 4th out of the 4 NL playoff teams

2005 - White Sox - 2nd out of the 4 AL playoff teams

2004 - Red Sox - 2nd out of the 4 AL playoff teams

2003 - Florida - 2nd out of the 4 NL playoff teams

 

So, 3rd, 3rd, 1st, 1st, 4th, 4th, T1st, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd. See a pattern? I don't. It's random. Because it's a crap shoot. 162 games determines the best teams. 5 & 7 game series determine the world series champ. Just get to the playoffs, anything could happen. Just because it didn't happen for the Twins doesn't mean they were built wrong. It just means they didn't win it all. Everyone wants a reason, sometimes there is no reason.

 

There seems to be this belief that the only way you win a world series with with a dominant #1 and/or #2 starter who strikes out a ton of people and carries the team to victory, winning the MVP. The only examples I could find of this happening in the last 20 years was the 1995 Braves (Glavine) the 2001 Diamondbacks (Schilling & Johnson) and the 2003 Marlins (Beckett).

 

Hamels won the MVP in 2008, but only struck out 8 guys in 13 innings. Livian Hernandez won it in 1997 with 7 strikeouts in 13.6 innings. Heck, in 1991 Jack Morris only struck out 9 guys in 23 innings, for a Blackburnish K/9 rate of 3.5. Think a K/9 rate of 3.5 would produce an ERA of 1.17 over a 162 game season? It did over 3 starts in October of 1991.

 

Meanwhile, guys like David Freese, Edgar Renteria, David Eckstein, Jermaine Dye, Scott Brosius and Pat Borders have won world series MVPs. Why? Because anything can happen in 7 games.

 

Well Done Grover!!! Grade A... Plus 1... Applause... If the Like Button was still here... You'd be getting a Notification in your inbox that Riverbrian liked this post.

[twinsnorth49]

Atlanta had arguably the best pitching staff of the 90's, winning 6 Cy Young awards, they reached the WS 5 times and won only once. That's a good reflection on the fickleness of playoff baseball.