Jason Frasor

[Monkeypaws]

Evidently, 1.5 million was too expensive for everyone else too. These kind of threads are just vapid; do we really need to complain every time another team signs a player that the Twins might be able to use.

 

Thank you.

 

People need to realize that free agents choose teams for MANY reasons, ONE of which is money.

 

It's not as simple as "gee, if the Twins had offered 1.6, he would have signed here."

[70charger]

Wow, every response from you is like some kind of personal manifesto.

 

Heh. Now I'm picturing a Unabomber type.

 

jokin, are you writing this from you compound in Montana?

[johnnydakota]

Evidently, 1.5 million was too expensive for everyone else too. These kind of threads are just vapid; do we really need to complain every time another team signs a player that the Twins might be able to use.

 

Yes

[johnnydakota]

You can't just make up **** up and call it a fact. People will stop taking you seriously if they already haven't.

 

You really don't have any basis for your distinction between cheap and penny-wise--it's just your opinion.

 

And sure, Corriea is a status quo signing, so flame away, but to generalize that the Twins are maintaining the status quo when they just traded two of their CFers that were under team control for years for three legitimate, young pitchers is asinine. You seem ideological predisposed against the Twins.

 

You like Ryan are hoping for the best. If you look closer you will see Terry recieved 1 single A pitcher for an established c.f., what are the odds of any A player making it to the show, before you answer look at Mays in 2011 ,nice stats, but in AA Mays ERA is over 4.80

Looking at the lil Ben trade we recieved a 2 time sore armed back of the rotation starter and a guy who struggled in AA.

To me i dont see how Me. Ryan has safe guarded our limited resources , but in fact has gambled them ....for 3 magic beans

[Boom Boom]

You like Ryan are hoping for the best. If you look closer you will see Terry recieved 1 single A pitcher for an established c.f., what are the odds of any A player making it to the show, before you answer look at Mays in 2011 ,nice stats, but in AA Mays ERA is over 4.80

Looking at the lil Ben trade we recieved a 2 time sore armed back of the rotation starter and a guy who struggled in AA.

To me i dont see how Me. Ryan has safe guarded our limited resources , but in fact has gambled them ....for 3 magic beans

 

There weren't enough free agents on the market to fix this team in one offseason. I'm not real happy about how things have played out, but if anything I don't think Ryan has gone far enough in trading away "limited resources".

 

Also, I think you're overrating Revere.

[TheLeviathan]

Talent is great, but if the Twins feel they can get cheaper, better talent than say Frasor (or signed pitcher of the day) who am I to fault them? There's an implication here that the Twins aren't good at identifying inexpensive talent--when in recent history the Twins have consistently found effective bullpen parts on scrap heap.

 

Spending money doesn't necessarily equal bringing in more talent, and there's a threshold of diminishing returns that the Twins aren't going to pass, nor should they.

 

If this is November I don't disagree. But right now it could be argued Frasor would walk in our third best reliever. The contract he was signed to is incredibly affordable. There is zero question he is better than guys currently slotted to pitch significant innings. And all of this comes in the weeks after our FO has declared that they are pretty much done. With this much budget room left and clear upgrades still available (and in light of significant promises before the offseason) I think it is perfectly valuable to grumble when we see talent coming off the market that would add to this team.

 

Frankly, there is no defense of the FO when they set the expectations and then failed to live up to them. Again, I like what they've done for the most part, but that doesn't mean they are beyond criticism.

[PseudoSABR]

If this is November I don't disagree. But right now it could be argued Frasor would walk in our third best reliever. The contract he was signed to is incredibly affordable. There is zero question he is better than guys currently slotted to pitch significant innings. And all of this comes in the weeks after our FO has declared that they are pretty much done. With this much budget room left and clear upgrades still available (and in light of significant promises before the offseason) I think it is perfectly valuable to grumble when we see talent coming off the market that would add to this team.

 

Frankly, there is no defense of the FO when they set the expectations and then failed to live up to them. Again, I like what they've done for the most part, but that doesn't mean they are beyond criticism.

I don't necessarily disagree, unless the Twins have other players in mind, or there's something they really don't like about Frasor. This is the season where the Twins tend to fill out their bullpen, so I'm still in wait and see model. But a deal like this might make the Twins feel sheepish later, I can agree with that.

 

FO has acquired four pitchers to compete for the rotation, even if all those players have warts...

[TheLeviathan]

I don't necessarily disagree, unless the Twins have other players in mind, or there's something they really don't like about Frasor.

 

FO has acquired four pitchers to compete for the rotation, even if all those players have warts...

 

Hence why Frasor, a bullpen arm, is worthy to complain about a bit. They haven't even added a Burton this year to a pen that could also use some help. Given this team's lack of talent, a significant addition and a few more talented flyers is reasonable to expect. At this point one could seriously question the talent of those 4 pitchers relative to what was available and the budget space to add them.

[PseudoSABR]

I edited my post, with: "This is the season where the Twins tend to fill out their bullpen, so I'm still in wait and see model. But a deal like this might make the Twins feel sheepish later, I can agree with that" which I kind of addresses your most recent post.

[TheLeviathan]

It doesn't change that with this amount of budget space that they aren't willing to be a little more risk averse. They are playing it way too safely - from choosing Pelfrey over Baker, Correia/Blanton over Marcum/whomever, etc. They have the budget room to take more gambles and they said, pre-offseason, that they were going to be more aggressive. All people are doing is holding their feet the same fight the Twins lit themselves. I don't get the crusaders to defend the Twins from the very expectations they set out. That is 100% ridiculous.

[Riverbrian]

I have some questions that maybe some folks can answer for me.

 

How does anyone know that the Twins didn't offer 2 or 3 Million a year for Frasor?

 

How does anyone know if Frasor didn't personally select the Texas Rangers to sign with for personal reasons.

 

Why does a player signing with another club suggest the Twins didn't make an effort to sign him or consider him at all?

 

Is every player obligated to sign with us because we want them to?

 

Are all 29 teams allowed to participate in this Free Agent Process?

[TheLeviathan]

I have some questions that maybe some folks can answer for me.

 

How does anyone know that the Twins didn't offer 2 or 3 Million a year for Frasor?

 

How does anyone know if Frasor didn't personally select the Texas Rangers to sign with for personal reasons.

 

Why does a player signing with another club suggest the Twins didn't make an effort to sign him or consider him at all?

 

Is every player obligated to sign with us because we want them to?

 

Are all 29 teams allowed to participate in this Free Agent Process?

 

Any non-strawmen to ask?

[LimestoneBaggy]

It doesn't change that with this amount of budget space that they aren't willing to be a little more risk averse. They are playing it way too safely - from choosing Pelfrey over Baker, Correia/Blanton over Marcum/whomever, etc. They have the budget room to take more gambles and they said, pre-offseason, that they were going to be more aggressive. All people are doing is holding their feet the same fight the Twins lit themselves. I don't get the crusaders to defend the Twins from the very expectations they set out. That is 100% ridiculous.

 

I can agree that it's hard to defend the Twins offseason aquisitions, but some would present a good argument that Jason Frasor is 35, coming off a career-worst season (including a DL trip). His strikeout numbers may have been career highs, but I'm not convinced that this specific decision wasn't based on worth. I like Fien and Roenicke...for what they are paying.

 

Now if you are asking me to defend K.Corr and Pelfrey over Baker....I'm not touching those.

[TheLeviathan]

I can agree that it's hard to defend the Twins offseason aquisitions, but some would present a good argument that Jason Frasor is 35, coming off a career-worst season (including a DL trip). His strikeout numbers may have been career highs, but I'm not convinced that this specific decision wasn't based on worth. I like Fien and Roenicke...for what they are paying.

 

Now if you are asking me to defend K.Corr and Pelfrey over Baker....I'm not touching those.

 

It doesn't have to be Frasor. But this team has publically declared their comfort with being done this offseason. When you see talent like Frasor still out there for reasonable price tags - that is hard to swallow with the amount of budget room left.

[ThePuck]

It doesn't have to be Frasor. But this team has publically declared their comfort with being done this offseason. When you see talent like Frasor still out there for reasonable price tags - that is hard to swallow with the amount of budget room left.

 

or guys like Marcum...

[LimestoneBaggy]

I do like Marcum (love that K/9), but I wonder with our outfield whether his BABIP would stay below .300. Also, at this point, I wonder if signing Marcum is enough to interest the average fan (unless the Twins starting winning).

 

That being said. I sign him.

[PseudoSABR]

I can agree they are probably playing it too safe. But again, hard for me to get worked up over it, given the context of the offseason.

[ashbury]

Uhhh...."Thankyou"?

 

tl;dnr

[darin617]

It's threads like this that make this entire forum a disaster to read in the off-season.

 

The Twins have plenty of bullpen options for next year, including wonder boy Slama as well as guys like Harden who could slot in quite nicely into the bullpen. I would have liked a Frasor signing, but it's not worth blasting the org over, Jesus Christ.

 

I still kinda hope we can resign Capps to a one year/1 mil deal personally, he is frustrating, but I think he could be a nice 6th/7th inning guy next year for us.

 

But you still comment about this thread and bring up Matt Capps?

[twinsnorth49]

Any non-strawmen to ask?

 

You use that phrase waaaaay to much.

[darin617]

More on base to be left there.

Wouldn't it be better to target higher skill level relievers than Frasor, Brunett, or Swarzak? Swarzak was used more as a long reliever/spot starter, so to compare him and Frasor is not right. The comparable pitcher to Frasor would be Fien. Fien was more effective than Frasor. Brunett would be more of a development player. Ryan Pressly is probably the competition for Brunett. I don't see it as a terribly exciting competition.

 

How can you sign anyone when the purse strings are pulled so tight.

[kab21]

It's threads like this that make this entire forum a disaster to read in the off-season.

 

The Twins have plenty of bullpen options for next year, including wonder boy Slama as well as guys like Harden who could slot in quite nicely into the bullpen. I would have liked a Frasor signing, but it's not worth blasting the org over, Jesus Christ.

 

I still kinda hope we can resign Capps to a one year/1 mil deal personally, he is frustrating, but I think he could be a nice 6th/7th inning guy next year for us.

 

Actually it's not the thread but the posters that overdo it. I would like to add a guy like Frasor even if it was a 2/4M deal but there's no reason to act like it's the end of the world. You can tell when they are just blowing off steam when they start minimizing guys like Worley and May. These aren't great players but that was an outstanding trade even if it didn't fill org needs.

[Thrylos]

I have just a simple question:

 

in a 99 + 96 loss team that has a 9th (Perkins) and 8th (Burton) inning guy, how much a priority should be a 7th inning guy? Given the 99+96 Ls

 

(in my book, I wouldn't even waste $ extending Burton - he is 31 - trade him. Get the kids to pitch in relief and there are many college power arms coming in the pen from the recent drafts. But Ryan has millions to throw away to the likes of Correia and Burton)

[TheLeviathan]

You use that phrase waaaaay to much.

 

Perhaps there should be less strawmen thrown around then. None of those asinine questions were brought up by anyone. They're incredibly stupid, shallow contributions to the conversation.

[TheLeviathan]

I can agree they are probably playing it too safe. But again, hard for me to get worked up over it, given the context of the offseason.

 

Right but you have to understand every guy like this is going to remind people of the promises laid out before the offseason and cause them to look again at the pitiful collection of "talent" brought in with this much salary room available. You could argue with the trade of Span they essentially took 30M in reduced payroll and spent 14% of it to help a roster that produced one of baseball's worst records.

 

Now personally, I love what Ryan did in everything but FA contracts. (Genuinely love it!) But a guy like Marcum screams what he was talking about in the handbook and other places. As did a bevy of others. I don't blame people for grumbling. And I think it's silly as hell to lecture people on having disappointed bitterness when the root source of that is an expectation that wasn't created by the fans, but by the organization who couldn't wait to reassure us all that they were mad as hell about losing and not going to take it anymore. And all that big talk landed us was friggin Correia in non-trades.

[twinsnorth49]

Perhaps there should be less strawmen thrown around then. None of those asinine questions were brought up by anyone. They're incredibly stupid, shallow contributions to the conversation.

 

Neither were any of the asinine assumptions and theories as to why the Twins didn't sign Jason Frasor. I can understand getting genuinely worked up about not signing someone who actually might matter, Marcum, Jackson et al, but these diatribes start to really erode credibility in trying to prove how inept the Twins FO is.

 

The big picture isn't looking too good right now, I think we all agree, but this shouldn't really be all that lather inducing as a part of that picture, it's pretty bloody minor.

[TheLeviathan]

but these diatribes start to really erode credibility in trying to prove how inept the Twins FO is..

 

Where are these over-the-top diatribes you keep referring to exactly in this thread? I see bitterness and snark, but none of this. Where is it exactly?

 

What I see is a few posters here so aggressively looking to defend the Twins that they are jumping on anyone expressing frustration as if they're canceling their Twins Fan membership cards and stomping down to Target Field with pitchforks in hand. Chill, people can be frustrated and message boards are totally appropriate venue to express it. Lectures like the ones you, Psuedo, and nurse are handing out about it look pretty friggin silly in light of what the organization has said about what it would do this offseason.

[twinsnorth49]

Where are these over-the-top diatribes you keep referring to exactly in this thread? I see bitterness and snark, but none of this. Where is it exactly?

 

What I see is a few posters here so aggressively looking to defend the Twins that they are jumping on anyone expressing frustration as if they're canceling their Twins Fan membership cards and stomping down to Target Field with pitchforks in hand. Chill, people can be frustrated and message boards are totally appropriate venue to express it. Lectures like the ones you, Psuedo, and nurse are handing out about it look pretty friggin silly in light of what the organization has said about what it would do this offseason.

 

Well if you take the meaning of the word diatribe to mean "a bitter criticism", in a rather long, drawn out fashion, this thread is rife with them. I'm not lecturing anyone, merely pointing out that perhaps you need to chill over something as innocuous as this really is in the big picture. I'm not attacking your 1st amendment rights to express whatever frustration you are entitled to, just suggesting that in this instance it all seems a bit over the top in trying to prove a much repeated, one directional point of view.

[TheLeviathan]

just suggesting that in this instance it all seems a bit over the top in trying to prove a much repeated, one directional point of view.

 

Until the season starts....what other view makes any sense and isn't just pie-in-the-sky nonsense?

[twinsnorth49]

Until the season starts....what other view makes any sense and isn't just pie-in-the-sky nonsense?

 

The view that not signing Jason Frasor isn't a big deal equates to "pie-in-the-sky" nonsense?

 

The frustrated viewpoint would have changed if we had signed Frasor? Signing him or not really doesn't change anything, that's the point, it's pretty meh. I'm discouraged as well, with or without Frasor, if they do nothing else I'll be downright depressed.