Josh Willingham+Justin Morneau for Mike Olt

[h2oface]

Two valuable MLB Pros for 1 Maybe? Yuk. The trading deadline is the time for any trade involving Morneau and Willingham. Their value will be the highest and the teams questing them will be ready to give up way more than an Olt. Plus, you never know. Both Willingham and Morneau could be better than ever, Plouffe could be the player we saw before he was hurt, the pitchers could have breakout years, Hicks could be up and killing it.... you just never know. Morneau isn't done yet, and Mauer isn't either. And..... just the opposite could be happening with the team, but not the two Twins proposed. I like waiting to consider trading both. Some team will be willing to make a trade like the Revere trade.

[glunn]

Two valuable MLB Pros for 1 Maybe? Yuk. The trading deadline is the time for any trade involving Morneau and Willingham. Their value will be the highest and the teams questing them will be ready to give up way more than an Olt. Plus, you never know. Both Willingham and Morneau could be better than ever, Plouffe could be the player we saw before he was hurt, the pitchers could have breakout years, Hicks could be up and killing it.... you just never know. Morneau isn't done yet, and Mauer isn't either. And..... just the opposite could be happening with the team, but not the two Twins proposed. I like waiting to consider trading both. Some team will be willing to make a trade like the Revere trade.

 

I agree with all you have said and your optimism is inspiring.

[jokin]

Sano's chances of sticking at 3rd base are less then 50%, him being at least an average defensive 3rd baseman is less then 30% at this point, also he is still a long ways off... period. Assuming that he is the long term answer at 3rd base at this point would be a mistake.

 

I love how we haven't had a legit 3rd baseman since Koskie, and suddenly some feel that a half of a season from Plouffe (I think he sticks offensively, but defense is a question), and Sano are suddenly all the depth we need.

 

Sano is going to end up at 1st and Plouffe is a defensive liability wherever he plays- he has future DH written all over himself. Why is no one suggesting Mauer to move to 3rd for the remainder of his career (with Plouffe as a RH platoon bat at the position), as catching becomes more PT and problematic for Mauer over age 30? Trading your top two power hitters for one unproven, albeit legit prospect- but remember- only AA-experienced minor league corner guy is madness (Olt had a very high, Sano-like, K% at AA and Texas (33%) this year) and doesn't address the long-term crying needs of the Twins--- those being SP and MI. In order for the Twins to dig themselves out of this hole, they must use their primary trading chips to adress their critical needs, they must get Perez in any kind of trade with Texas and something else in the MI (Profar/Andrus) and perhaps give up a top OF prospect in their area of surplus to make sure it gets the deal done.

 

As others have noted, including me, Texas is reeling from the loss of the fan-favorite defectees and are desperate to keep pace with all the improvements made by teams in their division. They may be as willing a trade partner in need of a big splash as they have ever been in the history of their franchise right now.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Sano's chances of sticking at 3rd base are less then 50%, him being at least an average defensive 3rd baseman is less then 30% at this point, also he is still a long ways off... period. Assuming that he is the long term answer at 3rd base at this point would be a mistake.

 

I love how we haven't had a legit 3rd baseman since Koskie, and suddenly some feel that a half of a season from Plouffe (I think he sticks offensively, but defense is a question), and Sano are suddenly all the depth we need.

 

Dave, no one is saying ignore the 3B problem. But to continue in your logic, we haven't had a decent middle infield since 1991, and that makes 3B look like nothing. I don't buy into your logic on Sano not sticking at 3rd. While I don't ever expect him to win any defensive hardware, he's going to get every opportunity he can to stick at 3rd, as there will be no room for him in the OF, and I'm not sure there's going to be room for him at first either.

 

What I am saying is that Plouffe is an acceptable stop gap for the time being and could, (if the bat is for real) be a long term fixture there until Sano is ready, at which point he can move to 2nd, but that is absolute best case. In the mean time, we still have 0 decent middle infield prospects that could be contributing by 2014 and very little in the pipeline that could be useful by 2016. If this team wants to contend in 2014-2020, they are going to need to have above average production everywhere. Olt doesn't improve that problem.

 

If we are going to trade with Texas, Olt isn't the target. It's Profar, Buckel, and Perez.

[jokin]

Dave, no one is saying ignore the 3B problem. But to continue in your logic, we haven't had a decent middle infield since 1991, and that makes 3B look like nothing. I don't buy into your logic on Sano not sticking at 3rd. While I don't ever expect him to win any defensive hardware, he's going to get every opportunity he can to stick at 3rd, as there will be no room for him in the OF, and I'm not sure there's going to be room for him at first either.

 

What I am saying is that Plouffe is an acceptable stop gap for the time being and could, (if the bat is for real) be a long term fixture there until Sano is ready, at which point he can move to 2nd, but that is absolute best case. In the mean time, we still have 0 decent middle infield prospects that could be contributing by 2014 and very little in the pipeline that could be useful by 2016. If this team wants to contend in 2014-2020, they are going to need to have above average production everywhere. Olt doesn't improve that problem.

 

If we are going to trade with Texas, Olt isn't the target. It's Profar, Buckel, and Perez.

 

I agree on your trade targets, they need 2 of 3 for this to make any sense.

 

But I agree with Dave on Sano. While I would love to see him work out at 3rd, based on his play and performance eval thus far, the chances of him sticking at 3rd are probably 1/3. If and when he's ready, they will make room for him at 1st or OF.

 

Also, don't discount Rosario as a contributor sooner rather than later, he would make for a good MI 2B combined with a very strong defensive SS possibly acquired in this trade with the Rangers.

[TopGunn#22]

I agree that pitching and middle infield need to be the focus. Remember, Koskie and Gaetti were not Gold Glover's at the same stage Sano is at. I'm not suggesting sano is a Gold Glover either, just that he could be decent. And with that bat...I also agree that Morneau could be ready to come back in a big way, and I'm expecting some regression from Willingham. It may be better to trade "The Hammer" now if the price was right and trade Morneau at the deadline (or keep him, I love the guy). I would target Andrus. Willingham and a top #15 prospect (not a pitcher) to Texas for Andrus. In Arlington, "The Hammer" just might duplicate his 2012 season. Andrus is a top of the order bat and would give us our first legit SS since Gagne. Which top #15 prospect do you guys think could make this happen?

[Top Gun]

The Twins are only a couple of players away from winning the central this year. Go Twins!

[kab21]

Sano will make room in the OF or 1B when he's ready. it's just unlikely that he'll stick at 3B even though he'll have a another season or two to work at 3B.

 

I'm not sure why the lack of MI prospects was brought up. I'm all for targeting MI prospects also. Schoop is on my list as well as Sardinas and Odor from TEX but Olt is a better prospect than any of them and if I'm trading then I'm trading for the best prospect that I could get. And it's not like the Twins are stacked at 3B.

 

Profar is completely off the table so please stop bringing his name up. Andrus is also unobtainable for the Twins.

[jokin]

Sano will make room in the OF or 1B when he's ready. it's just unlikely that he'll stick at 3B even though he'll have a another season or two to work at 3B.

 

I'm not sure why the lack of MI prospects was brought up. I'm all for targeting MI prospects also. Schoop is on my list as well as Sardinas and Odor from TEX but Olt is a better prospect than any of them and if I'm trading then I'm trading for the best prospect that I could get. And it's not like the Twins are stacked at 3B.

 

Profar is completely off the table so please stop bringing his name up. Andrus is also unobtainable for the Twins.

 

Debatable point.

[DaveW]

Profar is untouchable at this point(for the twins) and Andrus is about to get really expensive in 2 years.

 

You can live with slap hitting slick fielding MI, you need your 3rd baseman to smack it IMO, I wouldn't over pay just to get a MI over a superior 3rd base option.

[nicksaviking]

Debatable point.

 

Well he was unobtainable for Justin Upton and the Twins don't have A comparable trade chip.

[jokin]

Profar is untouchable at this point(for the twins) and Andrus is about to get really expensive in 2 years.

 

You can live with slap hitting slick fielding MI, you need your 3rd baseman to smack it IMO, I wouldn't over pay just to get a MI over a superior 3rd base option.

 

Andrus gets expensive right about the time when the only guy making anything over peanuts is Joe Mauer. The Twins can afford him at that point and could answer their SS needs for the next decade and a half- or they could flip him for a boatload of talent in the interim of his team-controlled years. He's a proven commodity at the most important field position. Unless your are certain that Olt is going to be a lock to provide a Beltre-type career, why not acquire the greater need with your best trading chips?

[jokin]

Well he was unobtainable for Justin Upton and the Twins don't have A comparable trade chip.

 

Given recent personnel developments on their club and their chief competitors, the Rangers arguably aren't trading from the same position of strength.

[kab21]

Debatable point.

 

Debateable with those that have delusions regarding the value of Willingham and Morneau I guess. Offering a top 15 prospect does nothing to close the value gap or the needs that Texas has (MLB needs).

[jokin]

Debateable with those that have delusions regarding the value of Willingham and Morneau I guess. Offering a top 15 prospect does nothing to close the value gap or the needs that Texas has (MLB needs).

 

Delusions? The Rangers have depth at certain positions and glaring needs at others, use your imagination, a trade might involve a 3rd team in order to meet all their "MLB needs". As far as value goes, the WARs of Willingham and Andrus were about the same in 2012, and the Rangers have made it clear that Andrus is expendable. They need some splashy moves of their own just to show the fanbase that they are not taking their losses lying down. Willingham would be a major upgrade over Nelson Cruz (WAR 4 vs 1.3). And why does offering a top Twins prospect do nothing to close the value gap?

[kab21]

Awesome. Willingham has a career season at age 33 and you think that is worth one the best SS's in the league that happens to be 24 yrs old. This is what I consider delusional.

[SpantheMan]

It would make sense for us to pay some of their salaries. I know Texas has a high payroll but we also have cap room to spare, especially if we trade those two. Then TR could say that we are playing money to get better prospects and bit just being cheap.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Sano will make room in the OF or 1B when he's ready. it's just unlikely that he'll stick at 3B even though he'll have a another season or two to work at 3B.

 

I'm not sure why the lack of MI prospects was brought up. I'm all for targeting MI prospects also. Schoop is on my list as well as Sardinas and Odor from TEX but Olt is a better prospect than any of them and if I'm trading then I'm trading for the best prospect that I could get. And it's not like the Twins are stacked at 3B.

 

Profar is completely off the table so please stop bringing his name up. Andrus is also unobtainable for the Twins.

 

Then you don't make the trade (and to be clear, we should not be targeting Andrus either).

 

I agree that the Twins aren't stacked at 3B, but right now, but they have options. They have no options up the middle sans Rosario, and he won't be ready in 2014, and there's question as to whether or not he will even stick at 2nd. In most seasons, impact 3B can be found in free agency whereas impact MI cannot.

[Guest USAFChief]

Sano's chances of sticking at 3rd base are less then 50%, him being at least an average defensive 3rd baseman is less then 30% at this point

 

87.36% of percentages you see on am Internet board are made up on the spot.

[Ranger Vic]

As a Rangers fan, I don't think the Rangers would do this trade, but I wouldn't completely rule it out. The Rangers could use another bat, but they are likely going to move Ian Kinsler to first base. I think Willingham would be a good fit, but Morneau's injury history would be a concern.

[Ranger Vic]

That is the Morneau and Willingham trade for Olt is a possibility. I don't think the Rangers would have any interest in trading Andrus or Profar, especially after losing Hamilton. They are planning on playing Andrus at short, Profar at 2nd, and Kinsler at first.

[ericchri]

The Sano can't stick at 3B talk seems a wee bit overdone. I don't know any more than anybody else does, obviously, but I don't care that someone (KLaw?) labeled him as iffy to stick there. Until the Twins do something else with him, he's a 3B, and why on earth would you be looking to move him to another position before he has to. You should be encouraging the Twins to stick with him at 3B.

 

Geez, Corey Koskie was bad at 3B when he first got up, and he turned into a really good defensive player. And he was 6'3", 220 lbs, meaning around the same size as Sano (who supposedly has a fantastic throwing arm). Would Miguel Cabrera be better at 1B than 3B? Sure. But you can't tell me playing him at 3B is a mistake right now, not with the roster composition they have. The absolute best thing for this team long-term is Sano sticking at 3B and Rosario sticking at 2B, and writing them off at those positions for a somewhat sketchy trade now seems kind of silly.

 

Everyone should be rooting for Swisher to sign with Cleveland, though. Anything to make Texas more desperate.

[kab21]

The Sano can't stick at 3B talk seems a wee bit overdone. I don't know any more than anybody else does, obviously, but I don't care that someone (KLaw?) labeled him as iffy to stick there. Until the Twins do something else with him, he's a 3B, and why on earth would you be looking to move him to another position before he has to. You should be encouraging the Twins to stick with him at 3B.

 

Geez, Corey Koskie was bad at 3B when he first got up, and he turned into a really good defensive player. And he was 6'3", 220 lbs, meaning around the same size as Sano (who supposedly has a fantastic throwing arm). Would Miguel Cabrera be better at 1B than 3B? Sure. But you can't tell me playing him at 3B is a mistake right now, not with the roster composition they have. The absolute best thing for this team long-term is Sano sticking at 3B and Rosario sticking at 2B, and writing them off at those positions for a somewhat sketchy trade now seems kind of silly.

 

Everyone should be rooting for Swisher to sign with Cleveland, though. Anything to make Texas more desperate.

 

You know what's out of hand? Constantly bringing up Koskie like it's relevant. Keith Law isn't the only person that thinks Sano won't stick at 3B. Pretty much every scouting report says that he's a good athlete but he'll likely be forced off 3B. Of course you give him every chance to stay at 3B but you also need to prepare for a likely inevitable move. The depth chart at 3B consists of Plouffe, Sano and harrison (even worse at defense). Even MI has more depth in the minors.

[johnnydakota]

Would the Mets part with Dárnaud for Willingham ?

It would be nice to add a piece for the future who is mlb ready

We might have to throw in Herrmann also .

[DaveW]

Would the Mets part with Dárnaud for Willingham ?

It would be nice to add a piece for the future who is mlb ready

We might have to throw in Herrmann also .

No. No they would not......

[old nurse]

You know what's out of hand? Constantly bringing up Koskie like it's relevant. Keith Law isn't the only person that thinks Sano won't stick at 3B. Pretty much every scouting report says that he's a good athlete but he'll likely be forced off 3B. Of course you give him every chance to stay at 3B but you also need to prepare for a likely inevitable move. The depth chart at 3B consists of Plouffe, Sano and harrison (even worse at defense). Even MI has more depth in the minors.

 

Garry Gaetti was bad until he got good. Then he tried to throw the ball when his hands were on his throat. Sadly, the rest is history.

[beckmt]

Rosario may be here in 2014, with a chance in 2013. 3B needs to give Pouffe a chance for next year and then see what we have. Sano may or may not stick. Santana may be here in 2014 - 2015. Pitching is the problem area and you need more than max #3 types. Hopefully a couple of the better ones develop. Twins now have about 8 - 10 #4 and #5 types. Better is needed. Twins need to trade only for pitching and MI prospects(second choice). Mariners might be best target(noted above) for a deal to bring back more pitching. That is the way to go.

[DaveW]

Remember that one player who was shaky at defense then become good? Yeah, I mean if a couple bad defensive players can become good, why can't we assume everyone else will?

[jimbo92107]

True about silly moves. With the Angels stacking their lineup with 30+ homer guys, Texas may feel a need to respond with a couple big knockers like Morneau and Willingham. But I'd still rather have a pitcher for them, not another infielder.

[Mike Sixel]

Rosario is not going from A to the MLB.