Chance Twins open season with 75/80m payroll??

[rogrulz30]

I am going to continuously back up my point of the number 1 priority should have been unloading Mauer this off season to the Red Sox, if Peter Gammons was correct, and he is a good resource, the Twins should have done it. Mauer's contract will never allow the Twins to win. They had an opportunity with a good lineup to be competitive, Smith blew it, Ryan has to rebuild the system, the Mauer contract killed the Twins and they had a chance to unload it.

[Einstein]

I am going to continuously back up my point of the number 1 priority should have been unloading Mauer this off season to the Red Sox, if Peter Gammons was correct, and he is a good resource, the Twins should have done it. Mauer's contract will never allow the Twins to win. They had an opportunity with a good lineup to be competitive, Smith blew it, Ryan has to rebuild the system, the Mauer contract killed the Twins and they had a chance to unload it.

Probably wouldn't matter, I doubt they'd spend the money anyways.

[howeda7]

I am going to continuously back up my point of the number 1 priority should have been unloading Mauer this off season to the Red Sox, if Peter Gammons was correct, and he is a good resource, the Twins should have done it. Mauer's contract will never allow the Twins to win. They had an opportunity with a good lineup to be competitive, Smith blew it, Ryan has to rebuild the system, the Mauer contract killed the Twins and they had a chance to unload it.

Probably wouldn't matter, I doubt they'd spend the money anyways.

 

If the Twins traded Mauer, they'd have a $65 million payroll in 2013. Tops.

[kab21]

I am going to continuously back up my point of the number 1 priority should have been unloading Mauer this off season to the Red Sox, if Peter Gammons was correct, and he is a good resource, the Twins should have done it. Mauer's contract will never allow the Twins to win. They had an opportunity with a good lineup to be competitive, Smith blew it, Ryan has to rebuild the system, the Mauer contract killed the Twins and they had a chance to unload it.

 

How does trading Mauer so they can sign Dempster and Jackson make any sense when they would still have a <80M payroll?

 

The Twins still have 25M this offseason to spend (and they could push that number higher). And there's more money next offseason. There is no reason to trade Mauer to free up money. The problem is whether or not they will spend it and whether or not they ridiculously overpay.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I am going to continuously back up my point of the number 1 priority should have been unloading Mauer this off season to the Red Sox, if Peter Gammons was correct, and he is a good resource, the Twins should have done it. Mauer's contract will never allow the Twins to win. They had an opportunity with a good lineup to be competitive, Smith blew it, Ryan has to rebuild the system, the Mauer contract killed the Twins and they had a chance to unload it.

 

Right now, payroll is not the limiting factor for the Twins. They're wellllllll under their 2012 payroll number.

[Guest USAFChief]

I am going to continuously back up my point of the number 1 priority should have been unloading Mauer this off season to the Red Sox, if Peter Gammons was correct, and he is a good resource, the Twins should have done it. Mauer's contract will never allow the Twins to win. They had an opportunity with a good lineup to be competitive, Smith blew it, Ryan has to rebuild the system, the Mauer contract killed the Twins and they had a chance to unload it.

 

Right now, payroll is not the limiting factor for the Twins. They're wellllllll under their 2012 payroll number.

 

which was wellllllll under their 2011 payroll number. All signs seem to indicate payroll IS a limiting factor, and that 2013's payroll will be welllllll under 2012.

 

 

At this rate, by 2014, we could be back to dome numbers. But hey, I've been told payroll doesn't matter, so what the heck.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I am going to continuously back up my point of the number 1 priority should have been unloading Mauer this off season to the Red Sox, if Peter Gammons was correct, and he is a good resource, the Twins should have done it. Mauer's contract will never allow the Twins to win. They had an opportunity with a good lineup to be competitive, Smith blew it, Ryan has to rebuild the system, the Mauer contract killed the Twins and they had a chance to unload it.

 

Right now, payroll is not the limiting factor for the Twins. They're wellllllll under their 2012 payroll number.

 

which was wellllllll under their 2011 payroll number. All signs seem to indicate payroll IS a limiting factor, and that 2013's payroll will be welllllll under 2012.

 

At this rate, by 2014, we could be back to dome numbers. But hey, I've been told payroll doesn't matter, so what the heck.

 

And if the Twins do that, I'll be the first in line with a torch and pitchfork in hand. But until that happens, I'm not going to speculate wildly. The drop in payroll after 2011 was a given; the team went from receiving revenue sharing to paying into the system, a swing of thirty million dollars.

[edavis0308]

And if the Twins do that, I'll be the first in line with a torch and pitchfork in hand. But until that happens, I'm not going to speculate wildly. The drop in payroll after 2011 was a given; the team went from receiving revenue sharing to paying into the system, a swing of thirty million dollars.

 

 

Blah blah blah ~$25M in increased TV revenues. I felt like it needed to be brought up once more.

[ashbury]

All signs seem to indicate payroll IS a limiting factor, and that 2013's payroll will be welllllll under 2012.

 

Denard Span is set to earn $11.25M the next two years - Washington pays that now. We were hoping this money would be applied to improving the starting pitching. Well, $10M has now been applied to Correia. If the payroll is a limiting factor, it's because of decisions made like this one.

[StormJH1]

All signs seem to indicate payroll IS a limiting factor, and that 2013's payroll will be welllllll under 2012.

 

Denard Span is set to earn $11.25M the next two years - Washington pays that now. We were hoping this money would be applied to improving the starting pitching. Well, $10M has now been applied to Correia. If the payroll is a limiting factor, it's because of decisions made like this one.

Denard Span was NOT traded to free up money - he was traded because he was an aging asset on a team going nowhere next year, and moving him for a 2011 first-rounder to address glaring depth issues in young pitching made a ton of sense.

 

I frankly don't care what the salary number is for next season. With the exception of the CF situation (which is being rebuilt for the future anyway), it's not like this offense is going to be any worse "on paper" than it was last season. There's even some money left over to add a 2B or SS, though I'm not seeing a ton of indication that TR will actually do that.

 

As for the pitching, a bunch of guys left that weren't factors by the end of 2012 anyway (Baker, Pavano, Liriano earlier). This team won 66 games last year, worst in the AL. There's beginning to be some hope for 2014 and beyond, so any long term commitments you make to medicore veterans at this point are only going to be an impediment following 2013. And frankly, it's not like 2013 can get much worse than 2012 anyway, no matter how much the payroll drops.

 

As this team transitions into a more obvious rebuild situation, I don't think it does as much good to harp on how overpaid Mauer is. If this team is good in two or three years, it will be on the coattails of players on rookie contracts, much like the Rays have done for years. The fact that Mauer makes 20 times more than what they do will be symbolically frustrating, but ultimately pretty irrelevant to our success or failure. The team will have bottomed out enough to add free agents if they so choose, or start resigning young guys who are worth resigning.

[ashbury]

Denard Span is set to earn $11.25M the next two years - Washington pays that now. We were hoping this money would be applied to improving the starting pitching. Well, $10M has now been applied to Correia. If the payroll is a limiting factor, it's because of decisions made like this one.

Denard Span was NOT traded to free up money

 

I didn't say he was. At the time of the trade, it was observed that a side effect is that some fewer dollars were now committed, and could be used to get an even spiffier FA starting pitcher than might otherwise be signed. Now, it just happens that the money previously earmarked for Span is almost exactly matched by what will go to Correia. As we heard repeatedly during the recent election, it's just arithmetic - on a team with a finite and not very elastic budget, signing decisions have consequences.

[Mike Sixel]

I do not understand why signing a good pitcher to a multiyear deal is not about 2014.....how that handcuffs them for the future.

[LoganJones]

Another way to look at it is that a byproduct of the Span trade frees up room to get Correia and a non-tender like Jurrjens, without prohibiting Marcum, Sanchez or Jackson. There are other factors that are ultimately frustrating those efforts.

[StormJH1]

 

I didn't say he was. At the time of the trade, it was observed that a side effect is that some fewer dollars were now committed, and could be used to get an even spiffier FA starting pitcher than might otherwise be signed. Now, it just happens that the money previously earmarked for Span is almost exactly matched by what will go to Correia. As we heard repeatedly during the recent election, it's just arithmetic - on a team with a finite and not very elastic budget, signing decisions have consequences.

 

Ok, might have misunderstood that part. In any event, if your idea was that we essentially "traded" Span's money for Correia, I'm not necessarily troubled by that. We needed SP, even mediocre SP, more than we needed Denard Span moving forward, as crazy as that sounds. And aside from Correia, moving Span and Revere directly resulted in ADDING three starting pitchers in their early and mid 20's who can miss some bats.

[Einstein]

Are the Twins still at the $70 million range for 2013? Worst record in the A.L. two years running and they cut $30 million in salary? Is that right? Or am I missing something?

[Rosterman]

Yep, at $70-75 million. Next year they get an additional $25 million, plus Morneau and Carroll and Blackburn will be freed up. At the rate the Twins are going, by 2015 they will have repaid their investment in Target Field!

[TheLeviathan]

Are the Twins still at the $70 million range for 2013? Worst record in the A.L. two years running and they cut $30 million in salary? Is that right? Or am I missing something?

 

Well, that depends on how true it is that Correia is only making 5.5M. He might have incentives to push that to 30M or so.

[Jim Crikket]

Are the Twins still at the $70 million range for 2013? Worst record in the A.L. two years running and they cut $30 million in salary? Is that right? Or am I missing something?

 

I just posted an article on this last night at Knuckleballs (and re-posted here at TD this morning). Absent another Major League signing, the Twins currently appear to have about $79,600,000 committed for 2013 (and this includes the $5.5 million they owe Nick Blackburn). It may be a few bucks more if you assume Rich Harden will make the Opening Day roster and get more than the MLB minimum should he do so. That would be more than $20 million LESS than the Opening Day payroll commitment a year ago.

 

So yeah... Joe Mauer's pay is certainly NOT affecting what the Twins FO can do right now. It's not that they can't afford better pitching, they are simply choosing not to acquire it.

[johnnydakota]

I see your logic, but why spend money on free agents that won't make much difference? If no difference makers can be signed, why not use the money to try to sign some more Sanos and Keplers, and maybe save some for Appel or some other expensive draft pick?

well there is signing bonus caps for 1

and 2 if we never sign good players when will we get good players?

[johnnydakota]

If the Twins traded Mauer, they'd have a $65 million payroll in 2013. Tops.

 

and an 80 million dollar payroll with him

[Jim Crikket]

And if the Twins do that, I'll be the first in line with a torch and pitchfork in hand. But until that happens, I'm not going to speculate wildly. The drop in payroll after 2011 was a given; the team went from receiving revenue sharing to paying into the system, a swing of thirty million dollars.

 

You might want to at least get the torch and pitchfork handy, Brock.

 

In 2007, the Twins opened the year with a $71,439,500 payroll (according to Cot's). As things stand now, if we consider Nick Blackburn's 2013 pay as a sunk cost, the remainder of the Twins payroll looks to be about $74,100,000. Adjusted for even moderate inflation (and there's been nothing moderate about the rate of inflation of MLB salaries), I think we're already in the Metrodome payroll neighborhood.

[johnnydakota]

Let's say Greinke turns into a lemon three years into the contract. You now have a declining Mauer and a worthless Greinke eating $50m. What do you do in that situation?

 

(answer: lose a lot of games)

 

then you send them to rochester till they quit or some one else picks them up

[Einstein]

I just posted an article on this last night at Knuckleballs (and re-posted here at TD this morning). Absent another Major League signing, the Twins currently appear to have about $79,600,000 committed for 2013 (and this includes the $5.5 million they owe Nick Blackburn). It may be a few bucks more if you assume Rich Harden will make the Opening Day roster and get more than the MLB minimum should he do so. That would be more than $20 million LESS than the Opening Day payroll commitment a year ago.

 

So yeah... Joe Mauer's pay is certainly NOT affecting what the Twins FO can do right now. It's not that they can't afford better pitching, they are simply choosing not to acquire it.

Thanks for the link! Good read!

[johnnydakota]

Have no fear everyone! MLBTR reporting we are close to a two year deal with Kevin Crappiea!

 

gee the pitcher i said ryan would pursue and sign as our inning eating ace

[johnnydakota]

And if the Twins do that, I'll be the first in line with a torch and pitchfork in hand. But until that happens, I'm not going to speculate wildly. The drop in payroll after 2011 was a given; the team went from receiving revenue sharing to paying into the system, a swing of thirty million dollars.

and they still pocketed 26 million in profits

[jharaldson]

I just posted an article on this last night at Knuckleballs (and re-posted here at TD this morning). Absent another Major League signing, the Twins currently appear to have about $79,600,000 committed for 2013 (and this includes the $5.5 million they owe Nick Blackburn).

 

Something else that supports a hard $80 million salary cap is that the Correia signing had $500,000 deferred into 2014 (2013-$4.5,2014-$5.5). Given we are $400,000 under $80 million this appears to have been done to stay under that number.

[kab21]

I think it's awesome how people complain that the Twins don't spend enough in one thread and then complain about how ridiculous a player's new contract is in another.

 

I'm completely unimpressed with Corriea and Pelfrey and would have liked other relatively cheap options but there weren't many good options available and they got a lot of money. Here are the 10+M/yr FA's off the top of my head. there's spending and there's spending only for the sake of spending.

 

Marcum - ?

Guthrie - 3/25 - almost 10M/yr and he's not that good

Dempster - 2/26.5

Jackson - 4/52

Sanchez 5/80

Greinke - 6/147.5

 

Haren obviously signed a below market one year contract with a team of his choice so he wasn't an option unless of the Twins traded for his option with the Angels.

[Jim Crikket]

I think it's awesome how people complain that the Twins don't spend enough in one thread and then complain about how ridiculous a player's new contract is in another.

 

I'm completely unimpressed with Corriea and Pelfrey and would have liked other relatively cheap options but there weren't many good options available and they got a lot of money. Here are the 10+M/yr FA's off the top of my head. there's spending and there's spending only for the sake of spending.

 

Marcum - ?

Guthrie - 3/25 - almost 10M/yr and he's not that good

Dempster - 2/26.5

Jackson - 4/52

Sanchez 5/80

Greinke - 6/147.5

 

Haren obviously signed a below market one year contract with a team of his choice so he wasn't an option unless of the Twins traded for his option with the Angels.

 

I think you're leaving out a few other options. For example:

 

Scott Baker $5.5 mil

Joe Blanton 2 yr/$15 mil

Scott Feldman $6 mil

Roberto Hernandez $3.25 mil

John Lannan $2.5 mil

Francisco Liriano 2 yr/$12.75 mil

Kyle Lohse - ?

Daisuke Matsuzaka - ?

Brandon McCarthy 2 yr/$15.5 mil

Brett Myers - ?

Carlos Villanueva 2 yr/$10 mil

 

Certainly all of these pitchers have various "warts". But the point is that there were... and remain... legitimate options better than Kevin Correia and Mike Pelfrey. And he should still have enough room to sign literally any one (and possibly two) of those that remain without threatening the Twins solvency.

[edavis0308]

Unless Marcum is significantly injured, he ain't singing here. Though appreciated, redo accordingly.

[ThePuck]

In reference to our 2007 payroll being in the 71.4M. Inflation calculator says that equals 79.28M today. And that's just normal inflation...before considering how much MLB players' salary has increased.

 

So if payroll sits in the high 70s or even mid 80s this upcoming season, why did we need the new park again? Of course, I love the new park, but why was it needed?