Blue Jays need a left handed hitting power bat at 1B. We have 2 of them.

[Willihammer]

Maybe toss in Revere and you're starting to put together a package that isn't so bad and it's a package that doesn't cost the Twins a prospect.

Revere has barely two years cracked into the arb clock and won't be a FA till 2018. He's a pretty good bet to put up 2 wins+ for bottom dollar over the next 4 seasons. That is a little more than a toss in, esp. when you're weighing him against a guy with 50 million of guaranteed money coming his way. The Jays would snap that up in a heartbeat.

[mnfireman]

Maybe toss in Revere and you're starting to put together a package that isn't so bad and it's a package that doesn't cost the Twins a prospect.

Revere has barely two years cracked into the arb clock and won't be a FA till 2018. He's a pretty good bet to put up 2 wins+ for bottom dollar over the next 4 seasons. That is a little more than a toss in, esp. when you're weighing him against a guy with 50 million of guaranteed money coming his way. The Jays would snap that up in a heartbeat.

Not a huge fan of Revere's skill set (he seems like a good kid), but NO to using him get Buehrle unless the Jays throw in a pile of $$$ also.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

Can we just stop talking about getting Buerhle? It wouldnt be a good trade whether it be for Revere or Morneau.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Am I reading this correctly? You want to send Morneau AND Revere to Toronto for Buehrle?

 

Good lord.

 

Toronto is able to get Johnson and Reyes for basically nothing but money, but have to take Buehrle's contract off the Marlins hands to get the deal done. And you want to bail Toronto out by taking Buehrle off thier hands? Why in heaven's name wouldn't the Twins have simply given a few decent, not great, prospects (and that's all Miami got) and gotten all three players then? You could still deal Morneau (and Revere) at that point, and you'd have Josh Johnson and Buehrle in the rotation and Reyes at short.

 

Buehrle was the yucky medicine you had to swallow in order to get the sugar (Johnson and Reyes). He's not someone you go out and acquire now, all by his lonesome.

 

Stop pretending that Reyes' contract is some kind of steal for the Jays. The dude is owed between $88m and $106m over the next 5-6 years. Here is his WAR for the past four seasons: 0.8, 2.2, 4.7, 2.8... all for the low, low price of ~$17m a season. Whooo, sign me up twice. The Marlins were idiots for handing out that contract in the first place (as they were with the Buerhle contract). He's never going to play up to anything close to the kind of money he's due.

 

The Buerhle contract is far from perfect but if you sweeten the deal a little and give up someone and get the Jays to pay some of the balance in 2014/2015, it might be a viable deal. Perfect? No, but when you need at least three starting pitchers for the upcoming season, it's not a bad place to start because dealing Morneau keeps you payroll-neutral in the short-term, allowing you to go get more arms via free agency.

 

And stop acting as if the Twins taking on $50m in salary this season was ever on the table. There's no way they would have acquired those three guys from the Marlins. It simply wasn't going to happen.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Can we just stop talking about getting Buerhle? It wouldnt be a good trade whether it be for Revere or Morneau.

 

God forbid that we lose Morneau's 0.8 WAR and replace it with Buerhle's 3.2 WAR. That'd really be devastating.

 

Any pitcher the Twins acquire this offseason is going to have flaws. That's just how this works. If you're looking for the perfect pitcher to slot into the rotation and hold out waiting for that Prince Charming to materialize, you're going to end up watching a full season of Samuel Deduno throwing balls over Joe Mauer's head. Is Mark Buerhle the best option out there? Possibly, possibly not. But for the love of Christ, he should be the subject of at least one phone call this offseason.

[TheLeviathan]

And stop acting as if the Twins taking on $50m in salary this season was ever on the table. There's no way they would have acquired those three guys from the Marlins. It simply wasn't going to happen.

 

Oh snap! Now ya done it! The Possible Police are going to raid this thread and scold you for pointing out that it could happen and it isn't unrealistic!

[Guest USAFChief]

And stop acting as if the Twins taking on $50m in salary this season was ever on the table. There's no way they would have acquired those three guys from the Marlins. It simply wasn't going to happen.

 

Buehrle, JJ, Reyes and Buck will combine to earn $40.75M in 2013, not $50M. And the Marlins sent $4M in cash, so the cost in 2013 is $37.75M.

 

The Twins, as they stand right now, have something on the order of $70M on the books for 2013. Adding $38M to that gets us to around $108M, and doesn't factor in any salary the Twins might have sent the Marlins way (Escobar, for example, will be paid by the Marlins in 2013.)

 

I don't think it's at all accurate to say there's no way the Twins could have put together something similar. In fact, just the opposite. If Toronto could do it, so could the Twins.

 

The Twins, if ownership wanted, could afford another $20M on top of that, and likely not lose money.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Ownership has shown on multiple occasions that they would never consider such a move. That's all there is to it. You can disagree with them all you want but they hold the purse strings.

[Riverbrian]

I mentioned this in another thread. I don't think money is the issue at all here. Chief is right. The Twins could have taken on these salaries and salary dumped Morneau to the Jays or Mariners for a low level prospect and the salary range would be very reasonable.

 

The point I want to make is.... How does anyone know that the Twins were not on the phone trying to swing the deal and simply didn't have the players that interested the Marlins. Maybe the Marlins liked the Jays offer better... How does anyone know.

 

My god... We have people attacking our front office because two other teams made a trade. If you sit and think about that... You can see the craziness. Can't we. Everyone realizes that 29 other teams exist and are working as well. Talk about some sort of Twinscentric Bubble.

 

The Twins have no pitching to offer back. Maybe the Marlins said... Terry... That's a nice package but we simply don't want 8 outfielders... We are going to do this deal with the Jays instead.

 

With That said.. What a perfect package of players for the Twins... Reyes and Bonofocio could have stabilized MI and put our speed level to Top of the league by miles. Johnson and Buerhle would have provided much needed pitching. Not to mention the big jolt of energy for the franchise.

[Guest USAFChief]

Ownership has shown on multiple occasions that they would never consider such a move. That's all there is to it. You can disagree with them all you want but they hold the purse strings.

 

Yes they do. Tightly.

[Top Gun]

The trade is over, we lost out on that one, so forget about it.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

I looked at the title and thought..."Hhmmm. What are you getting at...?"

[Twins Twerp]

Wait to trade mornie untilnhis value is up...after allstar break. Trade of'ers for pitching now

[robbie111]

Morneau will put LOTS of fans in the seats in Toronto and Rogers who owns the Bluejays have several Sports Networks in Canada where Morneau is very well known. It makes sense for them to have him at 1B or DH. It addresses a left handed power bat that the Blue Jays need. Don't forget they were interested in him this year at the trade deadline. Let's just say I wouldn't be surprised to see him dealt to the Jays.

[robbie111]

Wait to trade mornie untilnhis value is up...after allstar break. Trade of'ers for pitching now

 

Would you trade Willingham and Span for Lincecum?

[70charger]

Okay, legit question here. Just because Morneau is Canadian doesn't necessarily mean that he's some sort of national hero, does it? I mean he's from British Columbia, and here we are suggesting Toronto as if it's the same thing. They're about as far apart as Seattle and New York. Is the "Canadian thing" really that important?

[robbie111]

Okay, legit question here. Just because Morneau is Canadian doesn't necessarily mean that he's some sort of national hero, does it? I mean he's from British Columbia, and here we are suggesting Toronto as if it's the same thing. They're about as far apart as Seattle and New York. Is the "Canadian thing" really that important?

 

He's probably the best known Canadian Baseball player in the game right now, even more so than Brett Lawrie who plays for the Jays, or Joey Votto for the Reds. Morneau won Canadian Athlete of the year in 2008 (Over all hockey players) which has only happened twice before. Ferguson Jenkins and Larry Walker were the other two baseball players. He also narrowly missed out in 2006 his MVP year to Steve Nash who had just won his second MVP in a row in basketball. So to answer the question yeah he is a national hero in Canada and if the Twins were smart they could probably get a stronger deal from Toronto than from any other team because of that fact.

[DaveW]

This whole thing is confusing as **** to me, everybody said the Buerhle deal last year was terrible, and its not like he came out and had a career year this year or anything. He had a 3.74 ERA in the NL while pitching in an extreme pitchers park. He is owed basically 15 mil a year from here on out! (Baseball reference actually shows he is owed 18 mil in 2014 and 19 mil in 2015) not sure how accurate that is, but if that is the case....wow even worse. On what planet does anyone think either way that this is a contract we would want to bring on? Literally for a couple mil more a year we could go out and get an ace like Greinke (though I don't think that is prudent either)

 

I guarantee the Marlins would have given him away for nothing but salary relief this year, but nobody would bite. You bring WAR into the conversation incorrectly seeing how there is a very good chance that Morneau produces much higher then last year (since he was coming back from an injury and had a slow start) also Reyes, though pricey is still a damn solid player which WAR doesn't show his true value IMO. Also they got a guy in Josh Johnson who could ultimately be the best FA pitcher on the market come next year, he isn't exactly owed Peanuts, but there is no such thing really as a "bad" one year deal.

 

So at the end of the day: No, I wouldn't take Buerhle for even a straight salary dump, much much much less trading a guy like Morneau (who has plenty of value on his own) and Revere (Value both in a trade and in the organization for him) now if Toronto magically wants to pick up 18 of the 45 still owed to Buerhle in the deal then perhaps it would be worth discussing, but as it sits now? No way!!

[robbie111]

There's no way I'd want Buerhle for Morneau, I'd look towards Romero who had a horrible year and has had surgery to clean out his elbow but was Toronto's Ace in 2011 and maybe one or both of Taylor Cole or Roberto Osuna. You could probably do even better than this as Morneau has way more value to Toronto than most people here realize.

 

The Jays owners are Rogers Communications. They are a huge cable company and own several national sports television stations and a large number of sports radio stations. Morneau is to baseball what Steve Nash is to basketball. He brings in large numbers of Canadians to watch him play his sport. Rogers makes money not only from what the Jays sell for merchandise or ticket sales but mainly from advertising revenue on its sports stations. Having a centerpiece like Morneau (Captain Canada of baseball) would bring in a large number of new sponsors and companies and raise television ratings during Jays games which helps Rogers Sports increase rates for advertising time.

 

By the way Rogers made $14 billion from its advertising revenue according to Forbes magazine, which is why they can afford to absorb salary. Rogers also is an owner of the NBA Toronto Raptors and tried this already by offering a huge contract to Steve Nash (Captain Canada of basketball) not because they thought he'd bring them a championship, but because of the money they would make selling advertising to television sponsors during Raptors games (Nash refused it and took much less to be with the Lakers). This is the same reason the Twins should hold out for more from the Jays if they were to trade Morneau as it's not about his value on the field per se, it's about his value to bring in advertising money.

 

Anyone who thinks Toronto would have trouble absorbing Morneau's contract isn't looking at the big picture.

[Dilligaf69]

Ryan should be on the phone with the Jays to see if they're willing to work a deal that sends Morneau to Toronto for Mark Buerhle. Buerhle's contract is more palatable if it includes removing the $14m Morneau is owed in 2013. The Twins would have to send over more than Justin to make it happen but I think it's an idea worth pursuing. The Jays can't be all that excited about the $50m+ Buerhle is owed over the next three years.

 

Do you think the Twins are really interested to get Buerhle and his big contract? I dont think they really are.

 

 

Twins will not touch that contract....MB's best days are behind him...no thanks!

[Dilligaf69]

Wait to trade mornie untilnhis value is up...after allstar break. Trade of'ers for pitching now

 

Would you trade Willingham and Span for Lincecum?

 

 

 

NO and NO!!! Timmy is not a top starter anymore, he may not be a 3-4 anymore. He thrived in the pen this postseason and more then likely will finish out his career there plus isn't he owed a boatload of cash still??

[kab21]

First off Kelly Johnson is a FA and Josh Johnson was the entire reason that the Jays did the deal.

 

The Buehrle talk is interesting. It is definitely an ugly contract and it's backloaded so it really doesn't work well for what I want the Twins to do. i.e. spend but maintain future payroll flexibility. It's actually not that bad when you look at total dollars spent factoring in Morneau's subtraction. People need to stop acting like he has any trade value. He could be a solid hitter next season but it's a position the Twins can fill between Doumit, Mauer and Parmelee with Arcia and Hicks getting more PT at RF/DH.

 

2013 - 12M - 14M = 2M savings

2014 - 19M

2015 - 20M

 

Overall it would be a 3 yr 37M contract (minus Morneau) which is exactly what I'm looking at spending on a FA pitcher this year. If you don't like this trade then how confident are you that the Twins can sign a pitcher as good as Buehrle for a similar amount?

[notoriousgod71]

Okay, legit question here. Just because Morneau is Canadian doesn't necessarily mean that he's some sort of national hero, does it? I mean he's from British Columbia, and here we are suggesting Toronto as if it's the same thing. They're about as far apart as Seattle and New York. Is the "Canadian thing" really that important?

 

God dammit, I was just about to post the same thing.

[diehardtwinsfan]

If the Twins wanted Buerhle, the time to get him was last season. I woudln't trade jack squat for that albatross of a contract, and to add to it, Mr. Buerhle is one of those low K pitch to contact guys that we have far too much of... Yes, he's walked that line better than any of our guys ever have, but he's still a risk of suddenly falling off the face of the earth. At his price and age, trading anything for him would be down right foolish, as would taking him on if Toronto put him on irrevocable waivers.

 

If the Twins want a big name pitching and have the kind of cash needed to pay Buhrle, start thinking Annibel Sanchez or another big name free agent. This Buerhle talk is down right foolish.

[jianfu]

The Jays's Top 15 Prospects for 2013, according to Fangraphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/toronto-blue-jays-top-15-prospects-updated/

 

Most of the pitching is a ways away...not that that's terrible, but I suspect the Twins are itching for ML-ready guys if they're going to trade.

 

Still not sure what Morneau's value might be. I was skeptical, but Adam Laroche apparently is getting a lot ot suitors. Morneau's a bit younger, is AL-tested, and for all his struggles and inconsistencies lately, particularly in 2011, Laroche's 2011 was even more crappy.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/larocad01.shtml

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/morneju01.shtml

[Twins Twerp]

If u have two left hwnded power first baseman u have none... or is that qbs...i can never remember

[Top Gun]

Why Jays already have Lind & Cooper, far better than what the Twins got!