Judge Molitor by rest of 2018

[Number3]

The Molitor thread has gotten too long. To make it simple, if the Twins don't play at least .500 ball for the rest of this season, he should be fired on Oct. 1 period. There is no excuse for going into the tank just because playoffs are out of the question. Even the Yankees are vulnerable now and the bulk of the schedule is against the weak Central plus the Rangers. Only the A's pose a real competitive threat. As far as I am concerned, Molitor is 0-0 starting today and he has about 1 month to prove that he is even interested in winning baseball games. For some reason, I don't think he really cares that much one way or the other along with the rest of Twins' management/ownership. I know..the players play the games. I don't want to hear it. If the Twins can't at least split the rest of 2018, its on the manager.

[alarp33]

I would really hope the FO takes into account 3+ years of data rather than only one month. 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

The Molitor thread has gotten too long. To make it simple, if the Twins don't play at least .500 ball for the rest of this season, he should be fired on Oct. 1 period. There is no excuse for going into the tank just because playoffs are out of the question. Even the Yankees are vulnerable now and the bulk of the schedule is against the weak Central plus the Rangers. Only the A's pose a real competitive threat. As far as I am concerned, Molitor is 0-0 starting today and he has about 1 month to prove that he is even interested in winning baseball games. For some reason, I don't think he really cares that much one way or the other along with the rest of Twins' management/ownership. I know..the players play the games. I don't want to hear it. If the Twins can't at least split the rest of 2018, its on the manager.

In my opinion... I disagree maybe 100%.

 

I’d like the pressure off of him and I’d like him working on development for 2019 first and foremost.

 

Any determinations of Molitor should be based on his performance prior to becoming a seller.

[jimmer]

 

The Molitor thread has gotten too long. To make it simple, if the Twins don't play at least .500 ball for the rest of this season, he should be fired on Oct. 1 period. There is no excuse for going into the tank just because playoffs are out of the question. Even the Yankees are vulnerable now and the bulk of the schedule is against the weak Central plus the Rangers. Only the A's pose a real competitive threat. As far as I am concerned, Molitor is 0-0 starting today and he has about 1 month to prove that he is even interested in winning baseball games. For some reason, I don't think he really cares that much one way or the other along with the rest of Twins' management/ownership. I know..the players play the games. I don't want to hear it. If the Twins can't at least split the rest of 2018, its on the manager.

We have the Astros, Yankees, As and Indians in 11 of our final 31...Yikes.  And even against the dregs of the AL Central, we've basically split our games against KC, the W Sox and the Tigers this year.

[Riverbrian]

I would really hope the FO takes into account 3+ years of data rather than only one month.

I’m even willing to forgive him for 2018 but I want to him to change for 2019 if possible.

 

To nutshell my main concern. He went down with the ship in my opinion.

 

Some say he didn’t have any other options but I will quote Shakespear. “Even the worm will turn”.

 

Something like that.

[big dog]

I don't care about .500 any more.  That possibility is out the window.  I want to see young players play, and put in situations where they can develop, and I want to see a team on the field that actually appears to be interested in the game.  If Molitor can't do those things, then I don't think his record is the problem.

[Jham]

I don't get how player motivation doesn't figure in somewhere. I know we're not in the locker room. But anecdotal evidence and the little actual evidence we have doesn't paint the best picture for him.

 

Everyone seems to agree that the players have the biggest impact on a game and managerial decisions aren't key. Then motivating your players and getting them to play for each other should be a top priority.

 

I know the players are professionals and should be able to motivate themselves. But they're also people. We are mostly professionals as well and can look at our own experiences with management and teamwork and think about their effect on our own motivation and production. The Twins mostly have a bunch of clock watchers this year. Maybe it's mostly the players, but I'm not going to waste another season hoping it's not the manager, if it were up to me at least.

[ashbury]

I’d like the pressure off of him and I’d like him working on development for 2019 first and foremost.

Most of us have metrics and/or deliverables in our job. I'd love it if a boss told me, "don't worry about the rest of 2018, just focus on 2019." I probably wouldn't be a good employee, but I'd love it.

 

No, there needs to be some demonstrable goals for the rest of 2018, even if they are in preparation for 2019.

 

I agree W-L record isn't necessarily the best or only way to measure the progress.

 

But metrics (and they might be of the "inside baseball" variety rather than the ones we fans normally get to see) showing progress for Garver, for Austin, for Cave, etc, need to be there for him. Something Molitor can point to at season's end, when meeting with the boss.

 

It could be that preparation for 2019 might also be, "OK, we've tried everything we know with [say] Garver. You need to come up with someone else at that position." If there are successes to point to, then the negative stuff also counts as preparation.

 

If we see a bunch of games won with Robbie Grossman and Bobby Wilson and Joe Mauer somehow leading the way to a .500 September, then I don't know what to say.

[Blackjack]

At this point won/lost record means nothing. What IS important is playing the young players and seeing what you've got, see what kind of ML potential that they have, giving them a taste of the ML's, seeing which ones might help you in 2019.

[bighat]

 

I don't get how player motivation doesn't figure in somewhere. I know we're not in the locker room. But anecdotal evidence and the little actual evidence we have doesn't paint the best picture for him.

Everyone seems to agree that the players have the biggest impact on a game and managerial decisions aren't key. Then motivating your players and getting them to play for each other should be a top priority.

I know the players are professionals and should be able to motivate themselves. But they're also people. We are mostly professionals as well and can look at our own experiences with management and teamwork and think about their effect on our own motivation and production. The Twins mostly have a bunch of clock watchers this year. Maybe it's mostly the players, but I'm not going to waste another season hoping it's not the manager, if it were up to me at least.

 

There's something to be said for being a "likeable" manager. Joe Maddon's an example off the top of my head. Tito in Cleveland. Dave Roberts out in L.A.

 

Molitor might have respect, but I'm not sure the players like him very much. Molitor doesn't seem to be having much fun out there, he's not a "player's guy".

 

Sure, you don't have to be likeable or a player's manager....but if you're not, you better be winning.

[Riverbrian]

Most of us have metrics and/or deliverables in our job. I'd love it if a boss told me, "don't worry about the rest of 2018, just focus on 2019." I probably wouldn't be a good employee, but I'd love it.

 

No, there needs to be some demonstrable goals for the rest of 2018, even if they are in preparation for 2019.

 

I agree W-L record isn't necessarily the best or only way to measure the progress.

 

But metrics (and they might be of the "inside baseball" variety rather than the ones we fans normally get to see) showing progress for Garver, for Austin, for Cave, etc, need to be there for him. Something Molitor can point to at season's end, when meeting with the boss.

 

It could be that preparation for 2019 might also be, "OK, we've tried everything we know with [say] Garver. You need to come up with someone else at that position." If there are successes to point to, then the negative stuff also counts as preparation.

 

If we see a bunch of games won with Robbie Grossman and Bobby Wilson and Joe Mauer somehow leading the way to a .500 September, then I don't know what to say.

Concur

[iremember91]

Molitor didn't do the following: have the starting SS test positive for ped's; have 2017's best starter miss almost the entire season; have Sano and Buxton crash and burn (again); initiate the great LoGo experiment; etc., etc..

[big dog]

 

 

If we see a bunch of games won with Robbie Grossman and Bobby Wilson and Joe Mauer somehow leading the way to a .500 September, then I don't know what to say.

 

I know what I would say.

[laloesch]

 

Molitor didn't do the following: have the starting SS test positive for ped's; have 2017's best starter miss almost the entire season; have Sano and Buxton crash and burn (again); initiate the great LoGo experiment; etc., etc..

 

I am not a fan of Molitor but your post sums it up pretty well in my opinion.  i would add in too that Dozier reverted back to pre-2016 form and was non-existent from March-late July. 

[Jham]

Honestly, since when is getting the most out of your players no longer the job of the manager?

 

Sano had to get sent to A ball because of weight. Buxton is.. who knows. Rumors of a toxic club house. He's supposedly the smartest base runner ever, but his team is consistently awful. He knows baseball. He just can't teach it. And he certainly isn't very inspiring.

[goulik]

The biggest measuring stick on the remaining games for me is how Molitor is using the players he has and his rationale for that usage at the end of the year interview. If the young guys are not getting some time on the field/mound and certain older veterans/relievers are being overused to the detriment of experience for the youngsters, i need a REALLY good rationale on my player usage. 

 

That information combined with what has been seen the past few years will determine whether or not he is back next year. Wins/Losses are meaningless.

[gunnarthor]

I'm flummoxed on how anyone can still support Molitor. We don't need the rest of the season to know that he's not a good fit for this club. The FO made a big mistake bringing him back and we'll learn a lot about the FO if they are willing to admit to that mistake or let it ruin another season.